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Old March 9, 2000, 04:14 PM   #1
WinMag
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I have spoken with a few guides and they all have their preferences about what they recommend to stop a Grizz. The majority recommend calibers in the 400 magnum range, and the rest state nothing less than a 375H&H (even using these calibers they state that they have to put 2 or 3 more rounds into the bear to make sure its down). I have looked at the guide gun and really like it. I know that the factory loads are not maximized for what the round is capable of. And I also know that Marlin is supposed to come out with a lever action chambered for the 450 Marlin sometime this year.

Thanks
WinMag
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Old March 9, 2000, 04:56 PM   #2
bou3
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WinMag, I was charged a couple of years and I had a .338. Luckily it was a bluff, but the .338 felt real small. Now I carry a co-pilot from WildWestGuns solely. I reload and I feel comfident in its ability. I hope I never have to use it.
Joel
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Old March 9, 2000, 04:57 PM   #3
dZ
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Here's the story of the farmer who killed the Himalayan Black Bear with his khukuri:

The incident took place in the Solu District of Nepal, about 30 miles SW of Mt. Everest, on the farm of a
neighbor of my father-in-laws'.

The farmer went out to tend to his corn patch in the morning. He arrived to find a Himalayan black bear
having his breakfast in the corn patch. The bear did not take kindly to having his breakfast interrupted
and charged the farmer.

The farmer had only his khukuri to defend himself against the attack. He knew that he could not outrun
the bear so his only choice was to hold his ground. When the bear came to within striking distance the
famer struck the bear in the head with a single blow from his khukuri. The bear fell dead right at the
farmers' feet.

Since there are no supermarkets or refrigeration in this part of the world the farmer took advantage of
the situation and butchered the bear on the spot. He then sent his several children to the homes of his
neighbors with 30 or 40 pounds of fresh bear meat each. The neighbors, all curious as to the gift of bear
meat, asked how the bear had been killed. The children related the story which became famous
throughout the district.

From that day forward the farmer got a new nickname, "Bhalu," which means bear in Nepali.
http://members.aol.com/Nepalkamis/pict17.jpg
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Old March 9, 2000, 05:02 PM   #4
Robert the41MagFan
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The 450 is nothing more than a level three 45-70 load that can only be chambered in the Marlin 450 Magnum. It is a belted cartridge of roughly the same length and diameter of the 45-70. Powder volume is about the same, so is the bullet. Maximum pressure for both guns is 40000 PSI. They did this for PC reasons, liabilities and not allowing Darwin's theory of evolution from working.

Robert
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Old March 9, 2000, 05:13 PM   #5
Schmit
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WinMag,

You may want to check out Keith Rogan's page (and maybe he'll see this thread and post something here).

Keith is a longtime Firearms Enthusiast and has personal knowledge on Grizzly Maulings. His page is at http://members.delphi.com/keithrogan/index.html then look for the Bear Links.

------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
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Old March 9, 2000, 05:17 PM   #6
j.s.parker
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WinMag; 45/70 factory loads are fine for black bears but for the big bears you want Randy Garretts hard cast loads in 45/70. Randy can answer your questions better than myself but I'd much rather have a lever action than a bolt action any day as far as a charging bear is concerned. As far as the 450 marlin I think I would stick to a more common calibre. Good Luck, j.s.
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Old March 9, 2000, 05:59 PM   #7
Randy Garrett
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WinMag:

The 45-70 is as good as it gets for close-quarters defensive shooting of big grizzlies. Interestingly, our 530-grainer for the 45-70 provides 50% more penetration than 300-grain solids do from the 375 Holland & Holland. Also, 45-70 bullets are far bigger in diameter than 357 solids, and, in the case of our 530-grainer, they have blunt frontal flats that produce far faster incapacitation effect than roundnose solids from any caliber. The National Marine Fisheries Service in Homer, Alaska uses Guide Guns with our 530-grainers for defending their personnel from attack from coastal grizzly. Where power comparison is concerned, our 530-grainer generates a Taylor Knockout Value of 54 compared to the 41 generated by the 375 H&H with 300-grain bullets. In fact, our 45-70 loads generate as big a Taylor Knockout Values at 130-yds as the 375 H&H does at the muzzle with 300-grain bullets. For more information on the capabilities of the fine 45-70, check us out online.

Best regards, Randy Garrett www.garrettcartridges.com
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Old March 9, 2000, 06:19 PM   #8
Keith Rogan
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Schmit,

Thanks for the kind words on the Bear Maulings page, but the link you posted isn't it - that is merely a "dump" for images and stuff for posting on Delphi.

The ACTUAL url for the bear page is:

http://members.xoom.com/keithrogan/

That will have to do until I get around to getting a domani name.
I think anyone interested in the subject of bears and bear guns will learn something on this page.



------------------
Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

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Old March 9, 2000, 06:35 PM   #9
Hueco
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Mr. Rogan, I have looked at your page quite a bit lately. It is well put together! Great job on the site; overflowing with hard-to-find information!! Excellent!


Hueco
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Old March 9, 2000, 09:34 PM   #10
bou3
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Keith, I remember when your story hit the ADN. I'm glad everything worked out good for you.
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Old March 9, 2000, 09:34 PM   #11
Joey
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Do a search for the user name "Randy Garrett" and see what all pops up.

I'll be using Garretts 310gr Hammerheads in my 629 44mag. However, my dream gun is a guide gun loaded with Garretts 530gr 45-70 ammo.

Think I'll also be carrying my GH WWIII Kuri
------------------
http://www.dd-b.net/RKBA/ http://www.tcsn.net/doncicci/freedom.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~spwenger/spwenger.html

[This message has been edited by Joey (edited March 09, 2000).]
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Old March 9, 2000, 11:50 PM   #12
Schmit
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Keith Rogan:
but the link you posted isn't it - that is merely a "dump" for images and stuff for posting on Delphi.[/quote]

Damn Keith... SEE put a damn Marine in charge of things......

What can I say... I got that in my favorites from that link.



------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
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Old March 10, 2000, 10:11 AM   #13
WinMag
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Thanks everyone for all your information. I hope to be picking up my Guide Gun next week sometime. Randy, I'll be in touch for some ammo...

WinMag
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Old March 10, 2000, 02:01 PM   #14
Keith Rogan
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Schmit,

No problemo! Even a gyrene can't be expected to make much of that unwieldy domain name! I really am going to get a sensible domain name here pretty quick and the old one will just be a "forward" to the new one. bearmaul.com - something like that.

Hueco - thanks, I owe a lot to Randy Garrett, Dave Matheny (UDAP), guide Andy Runyon and others for their contributions. Look for more upgrades around mid-April or so.

Bou - you read the story in ADN? I'm still ****** at that paper for all the misinformation they published on the mauling - by the time they found out what really happened they weren't interested in telling the truth. The speculation about us shooting those cubs was below the belt. Then they came in at like 8 in the morning while I was woozy on morphine and shot those "Frankenstein" pix - bastids!
A week or two later I was over in Anchorage seeing a neurologist and an ophthalmologist and of course we stopped in at Wal-Mart and I hobbled around after the wife and began to notice everyone looking at me and even a couple of ladies following me. I know I looked bad, but this seemed..... bizarre - finally this lady walked up and said "are you that guy that shot all those little cubs?"
I answered in the affirmative but before I could explain the cirumstances, she just walked away and then her and her friends just looked at me and shook their heads like I was a child molester or something.

Never trust a reporter!




------------------
Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

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Old March 10, 2000, 09:38 PM   #15
bou3
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Keith, The paper did put it wrong and not everybody thought the way the paper put it. There is always more than 1 side. Unfortunatly the people who believed the paper are probably the same schmucks who never leave town and dont realize some situations we are put in.
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