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Old July 11, 2006, 03:59 PM   #26
Omaha-BeenGlockin
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A nice big Buck 119 Special would seem to do the trick.
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Old July 11, 2006, 04:40 PM   #27
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I like Blammer's answer, . . . works for me.

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Old July 11, 2006, 05:16 PM   #28
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Knife. You don't have to kill with it, there are a lot more options than that. But it's faster, and if necessary, can be used to kill faster than a Maglite. And there is the psychological effect. People may think very little of being whacked a few times, but nobody wants to be stabbed or cut.

Although a 6" knife may be a little big for my taste. I am not sure what it could accomplish that a 4" folder couldn't.
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Old July 12, 2006, 05:30 PM   #29
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Do my attackers have weapons? What kind? Where are we...alley, parking lot, garage etc. But all in all, I would choose the club. I can bash arms, shins, legs and knees to incapacitate w/o worrying about killing someone. Also, I have trained pretty much my whole life, so competency would be almost equal with each weapon...I choose the least lethal. Slicing and dicing can get really messy too...blood spray and all that. Yuck!
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Old July 12, 2006, 06:05 PM   #30
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I would take the knife, that's a no brainer.

First, you are outnumbered and need to IMMEDIATELY take down at least one of the attackers. That isn't going to be very likely with a maglight.

Thinking from the perspective of the attackers, if I were an attacker I wouldn't be at all concerned about a defender with a maglight. I could block a maglight strike and suffer only bruising and immediately neutralize the defenders weapon.

However, if the defender had a large 6" hunting knife or survival knife, I would be much more hesitant on attacking.
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Old July 12, 2006, 08:12 PM   #31
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First, you are outnumbered and need to IMMEDIATELY take down at least one of the attackers. That isn't going to be very likely with a maglight.
Gotta disagree with that somewhat, LC. I got cut during a fight some years back, and while the injury wasn't horrendously severe, I didn't even know I'd been cut until after the fight.

On the other hand, a 5-D cell Mag Light to the head is pretty likely to put lights out, and I can tell you from experience that the same blow to the shins will have the guy on the ground and howling in pain lickity-split .
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Old July 12, 2006, 08:45 PM   #32
duck911
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My father was a career Highway Patrolman and he always carried a 6 D-cell MagLite in addition to his service gun and baton.

They TRAINED on how to use the MagLite, and better yet, the MagLite in conjunction with their Baton. It has better reach than a knife if someone is closing in, and blocking a well placed full force swing won't result in just "bruising", it can (and likely will) cause nasty compound fractures of the radius and Ulna, will break ribs easily, and one pop on a kneecap - look out!

And, as Capt. Charlie said, upside the head, lights out!

Have you guys actually HELD a 6 D-cell MagLite??? It's quite a piece of metal!!

About the only advantage I can see with a knife is a badguy won't grab and hold on too long. I discount the psycological advantage, because if a BG is cranked out or otherwise messed up, he's probably not thinking straight anyway.
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Old July 12, 2006, 08:53 PM   #33
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Knife = fast, sharp, and deadly. Probably 3 deadly strikes in 1-2 seconds. Hard to take it out of my hand.

Club = slow, easier to dodge (a full swing is telegraphed), and while painful you can block it and sacrifice your forearm or with another weapon.

There is no reach significant advantage with a maglight over a 6" knife. Now, if you're talking about a staff, I'd take the staff over the knife purely for the reach advantage. But, I'd take a sword over a staff in this scenario too.

There is NO WAY I'd take a club over a knife unless I stuck up on someone and wanted a non-leathal way of knocking them unconscious.

We're talking about a life threatening sitatuion where you are attacked by two men.

You need to count on taking at least one out immediately, and you can count on him attempting to block/dodge your attack.

With a knife, your best attack might be slash move slash move stab, etc.

With a club your best move might be wind up, swing.... attack less than effective, then you get jumbped. Fight over. You lose.

There are some professionals that state that a knife is a more effective offensive tool than a gun. I have no opinion.

I challenge you to find a credible source that says a maglight flashlight is a more effective offensive tool than a gun.

I rest my case.
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Old July 12, 2006, 09:15 PM   #34
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It's relative. I have trained pretty much all my life in several different Martial Arts (no, I am not saying that I am an expert or better qualified to respond), and I will say that if you can get away from the conventional thinking of just swinging a club around and actually use it for surgical strikes to the elbows, ribs and knees of your opponent (yes this can be done very effectively, competently and quickly)...the club is as deadly and useful as a knife...and in MY opinion, much more practical. If you stab a person or even want to slash at your opponent, you have to remember that they are now in close quarters with you and can grab hold of you or DIE and fall on top of you or get stabbed and tangle you up. Slashing with a knife may not be as effective as "slashing"/bashing with a club. Was it Magellan or Cortez that was killed by the Pacific Islander Chieftan in combat...Cortez/Magellan had a sword, the Chieftan had two short sticks. Not that every outcome will turn out the same way...but do not under estimate a 3' broom stick, let alone a 6cell maglight.
Just a side note...I have trained extensively in knife and stick fighting, believe me, in a fight, I would much rather have a stick...a sword on the other hand...that is an entirely different story.
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Old July 12, 2006, 09:20 PM   #35
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Knife = fast, sharp, and deadly. Probably 3 deadly strikes in 1-2 seconds. Hard to take it out of my hand.
Agreed LC, but the problem is that death or disablement comes from loss of blood. Unless your strike is directly to the heart or aorta, it takes awhile to bleed out. Unless the psychological effect causes him to give up, he can go on fighting for several minutes, and that's a very long time in a fight!

In 1982, one of the officers I worked with was working a side job as security for a supermarket in a nastier part of town. He tried to stop a shoplifter, who pulled out a straight razor and sliced his abdomen wide open. Roger, with his guts literally in his hands, was still able to rally, draw and aim. (He couldn't fire because the %#$@ manager jumped in front of him & later said he didn't want to be sued )

Quote:
I rest my case.
I guess you can't take the lawyer out of the lawyer .
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Old July 12, 2006, 10:30 PM   #36
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Have you guys actually HELD a 6 D-cell MagLite??? It's quite a piece of metal!!
Yeah, I was gonna say knife. But I'm gonna stick with the mag that I dropped on my foot.
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Old July 12, 2006, 11:37 PM   #37
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Broken arm, knife in throat.

The maglite is too heavy to really move like a good fighting stick.

Closing the distance is easier in actuality than in sparring practice and then the maglite becomes less useful. A behaviour based attack (IE Rage, Fear) will ensure that distance is rapidly covered and a clash of bodies happens. Fighting on the inside is the knifes domain.
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Old July 13, 2006, 08:56 AM   #38
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Okay, I carry a Mag-Light... ONLY because I am in an unarmed position right now. I can get away with this because a good flashlight is needed.

I'll take the knife ONLY because the Mag-light is a VERY slow weapon to get moving. Now, I'm no coward, but my first choice might just be to run away. I am clearly over matched unless they are fall-down drunk. But if I must attend I'll take the knife...EXCEPT...

... IF a knife is a tool, then a 6" fighting knife is a tool with a purpose. Now since all 3 are deadly weapons, and since a 6" knife would be a CCW in most places...WHY ARE WE NOT CARRYING A GUN? If you fear for your safty enough to carry a weapon WHY HALF-@$$ IT?

Remember, they could have knives/clubs, too, and NOBODY "wins" a knife fight. You WILL get cut up some.
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Old July 13, 2006, 06:59 PM   #39
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The knife for sure. A blow with the maglite to the extremities can be lessened with tactics. I mean you might get one swing hit an arm before I am inside a zone that limits the speed of the subsequent blows thus making them less effective. Given the double bad guy scenario you are up poop creek if both attack simultaneously. A strike with the knife is faster and takes less effort to generate effective speed. If the bad guys get in close it is worst for them. It is much harder to take a knife away from you as the bad guys can't grab it without getting cut. Being wounded by a knife is much more psychologically effective.

If my attackers didn't have arms then I woud opt for the mag lite LOL.
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Old July 13, 2006, 11:24 PM   #40
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I would probably take the knife. While I might land a couple good whacks in with the light before one of the 2 disarm me, I could definately get the knife into one of them if they are close enough. Then it's one on one. With the light, if someone grabs it, the other assailant is free to jump in and finish it. With the knife, if the assailant grabs it, I twist and jerk it free of his now shredded hand.

Also if one of the assailants gets ahold of me from behind, I doubt I will be able to get enough force into my swing to get him to let go of me. With the knife on the other hand, if I were to be grabbed from behind, I bring the knife down and into his thigh.

I don't think this really applies to me though. I don't take knives to gunfights.
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Old July 14, 2006, 07:38 AM   #41
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I doubt I will be able to get enough force into my swing to get him to let go of me.
Exactly.

Long ago while a student in martial arts I remember being taught to advance in the face of a bat, stick, 5cell mag lite, etc. For the above reason. In addition an overhead strike can easily be block without severe damage by merely angling your arm causing the force to glance down your blocking arm distributing or cushioning it. Slight movement on the part of the hit-tee can cause your strike to miss the mark also. Once you have missed then you are extremely vulnerable.

Capt Charlie, If I knew in advance that I would be able to get in a head blow to each bad guy then I would agree with the maglite. If direct hits are achieved with both weapons the 5cell will stop the fight faster. It is just harder to get that "direct" hit with the maglite.

One thing is certain, they don't want to get into cutting distance of me with a knife.
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Old July 14, 2006, 08:26 AM   #42
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? in reverse

if i was doing the attack, i rather intended victim to have the light.
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Old July 14, 2006, 03:50 PM   #43
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Agreed LC, but the problem is that death or disablement comes from loss of blood.
I disagree with this, only because a well trained person can target areas that lead to disablement or even death not entirely due to blood loss. For example cutting the tendons in a person's arm/wrist, if they are carrying a weapon in that hand in disabling and a deep wound into the lungs can interfere with breathing and disable an attacker.

I have mentioned in other threads that I carry a well made folding tactical knife in addition to my CCW weapon, and in fact there are instances where I would attempt to deploy it even before my pistol. The situation mentioned is close to one of them, that is multiple attackers at contact distance, with the CCW/Duty weapon still in it's holster. It is also possible to deploy a knife covertly so an attacker(s) would not even know you are/were armed until you used the weapon.

I cannot think of many situations where I would perfer to be carrying a maglight over a pistol, or even my knife, except that it allows for "less than lethal" force, which may be perferable.
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Old July 14, 2006, 05:59 PM   #44
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I like a nice impact device as much as the next guy, but I'll be reaching for the knife in this scenario.
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Old July 15, 2006, 09:36 AM   #45
black bear 84
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If the comfrontation happens during the day, I will use a knife. If in the dark I will use one of my converted Maglites (The MAG 951 II with 1050 lumens) this will take care of blinding the opponent, then I can strike him at leisure with the flashlight hitting a joint (knee, elbow, clavicula).

The job is accomplished better if I use my heavy stainless steel Crenellated bezel.



The MAG 951 II is made on the Maglite 3 D host (so it is 12 1/2 inches long) and weights with the crenellated bezel one pound 16 oz.
The 1050 lumens that the lights put outs is more than double of what the Surefire M-6 does.
Here are some pictures

Beamshots from 43 yards away, camera at 15 yards.

Surefire M-6 (500 lumens)



MAG 951 II with the Rolls Royce battery carrier (1050 lumens)



The advantage of the mega light (when is dark) is that you can blind as many opponents as you have, and make your choice of engage them or retreat.
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Old July 15, 2006, 03:25 PM   #46
jroth
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Either is good,

For my family each car has a two cell mag-lite from them to grab and use.
In mine, its either the CPL carry or the Buck 110. Third is the vehicle it self.
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Old July 16, 2006, 10:13 AM   #47
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Been there, made the choice, but it wasn't really a choice

OK, first of all, I want to point out that I cannot go into too many details, but I had an incident a numbr of years ago where I had to make exactly the choice posed by the thread starter. I am not kidding, this is no internet BS. I did not choose the Mag Light. I just naturally went for it. Thinking was not involved, only doing. It was very zen. One point of difference, the knife option I had was not 6" it was only 3", but I did not even think about the knife. I went for the Mag instantaneously, and it worked out very well. I respect all the posts and the opinions, and I do not disagree, but I found the Mag Light surprisingly effective in self defence aginst multiple attackers. I should point out that I do have defensive training and did then, and physical fitness training has been a part of my daily life for 25 years.
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Old July 16, 2006, 10:35 PM   #48
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Knife, absolutely. If the fight becomes a prolonged one for survival, then making them bleed out is the key. They can pretty easily block your flashlight blows enough to stay conscious, and the adrenaline will keep them going despite blunt trauma blows, even with broken bones.
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Old July 25, 2006, 06:07 PM   #49
mabella
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Buy yourself a HAK hideaway knife and you can have both!
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Old July 25, 2006, 08:50 PM   #50
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I'll take the knife, and slit their throats open. and stab them in the eyes

or

I'll take the mag light and crush their windpipe. and bust open their eyeballs.
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