Remington 700 vs Ruger M77 vs Winchester 70...

David4516 · October 28, 2002, 02:34 PM

If you could only have one of these rifles, what one would you pick? Are they all pretty much the same or is one better than the others? If so, what makes it better?

Bogie · October 28, 2002, 02:39 PM

What caliber? For what use?

For "dangerous game" I'd go with a Model 70.

For a pretty rifle, I'd again go with a Model 70.

For a varmint gun, or if you're going to have a lot of accurizing work done, I'd get the Remington 700.

Sundance · October 28, 2002, 04:19 PM

I ditto Bogie,

For a nice quality pleasing to look at hunting rifle...Win Model 70 Classic

I like the looks of the Winchester...the word Classic they use describes it to a T. Also the claw extractor is a good solid reliable design.

For a precision/sniper rifle...Rem 700

Being a push feed, the 700 has the capability of being slightly more accurate than a controlled feed like the Win and Ruger. The 700 is the basis for most police and military sniper rifles in use in America.

But for what it is worth, Rem 700, Ruger 77, Win 70, Browning A-Bolt, etc. They are all good quality designs that will do the job intended just fine, and most specimens are probably more accurate than you are. Buy the one that fits you best with the features you like best, that you think looks the best, or agrees with your wallet best. They are all good.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · October 28, 2002, 04:25 PM

The Remington 700------its sort of like the 10/22 of centerfires.

There are more stocks---triggers---scope mounts etc.........

There are more gunsmiths who specialize in 700's than any other-----you can take a bare-bones 700 and turn it into anything you want in short order.

dakotasin · October 28, 2002, 09:02 PM

rem 700.

**Art Eatman** · October 28, 2002, 09:56 PM

If your primary use is hunting, and you figure on the occasional snap shot or offhand shot, the one which fits you best is the best.

The deal is, mount the rifle to your shoulder with your eyes closed. When you open your eyes, you should be looking right through the sights or the scope. (This holds for shotguns, as well.)

After that, which one is prettiest, to you?

, Art

JohnDog · October 28, 2002, 11:06 PM

To be limited to just one rifle!

youngun · October 29, 2002, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Being a push feed, the 700 has the capability of being slightly more accurate than a controlled feed like the Win and Ruger.

?? I don't follow. What is it about push-feed that makes it more accurate?
I understand that it is theoretically stronger in case of a KB, and that push-feed is cheaper to manufacture, but haven't heard anything about accuracy.
Learn me!

4570Rick · October 29, 2002, 02:44 AM

You are exactly right. When I bought my rifle, I looked at Rem, Win, and Browning. In Gemco one day I shouldered all three and on a whim, closed my eyes after getting a fix on a sprinkler head. I shouldered, opened my eyes and the Remington 700 LH told me the sprinkler was "dead meat".

$169.00 later the Rem. was mine.

It is more about what fits you than anything else period.

cratz2 · October 29, 2002, 05:46 AM

I have at least one of each. I would say that, while I like Remington, the brand best, I tend to like Winchester and Ruger rifles more when I actually handle them in the store.

Actually, based purely on gun-shop impressions, I'd put Tikka and CZ over 'the big three'.

Sundance · October 29, 2002, 09:57 AM

Quote:

What is it about push-feed that makes it more accurate?

Well you called my bluff and I really don't know. But I do find it interesting that the 700 is the premier sniper rifle and it is a push feed. And as for Winchester, sniper and varmit rifles are built on their push feed actions where most of their other rifles are on their controlled feed actions. Why? I am not sure. Maybe someone else will chime in.

youngun · October 29, 2002, 11:31 AM

My guess- Remington got to the push-feed design faster and was able to make a cheaper gun, while Winchester alienated most every loyal customer by pumping out crap (new ownership?)
Fast-forward 30+ years later, the professional sector has been outfitting M700's with every thing imagineable, accessories, specialized gunsmiths, and Winchester finally decides they did have a good gun after all and tries to start marketing it again.
[To be fair, I'm sure advances in computer-aided manufacture had a lot to do with their being able to come back with a decent price.]

So, let's give the "new" ol' Model 70 a couple of decades and see what happens.
Their are definite advantages to both designs.

youngun · October 29, 2002, 11:47 AM

And another thing, the Marines trust no one but Winchesterwhen it comes to the floorplate of their sniper weapon, the M40A1!
Any remaining doubts are gone!

MolonLabe416 · October 29, 2002, 11:58 AM

For general use, I'd go with the Winchester Model 70 Classic or Classic Featherweight in 308. It's, well, a classic. 308 ammo is available at any gun store on the planet.
The Remington might have more theoretical accuracy, but both will be more accurate than you are in the field.
Other posters are correct, stock fit is critical. Most factory stocks are too long. However, I wouldn't base my decision on that. Any competant gunsmith can reduce the length of pull for you for a nominal fee.

dakotasin · October 29, 2002, 02:45 PM

assuming a wood stock...get the one you like (700 were it me), and cut the stock however you see fit to make the gun feel the way you want.

we all go to great lengths to make sure the barrels are floated, triggers tuned, and decent recoil pads...why not take a saw to the stock, and cut the rifle? all of my rifles have had their stocks modified...except for savages, most of my rifles have had their l.o.p. shortened to accomodate hunting clothes (read: bulky, cold weather stuff).

my savages, in addition to shortnening l.o.p., have had the wrist area trimmed considerably, thumb-flute carved in, the grip area recontoured, the forearm slimmed a little, and put a defined grip-cap in, instead of the ugly, blurry-lined cap that was there...

to sum...all of my rifles fit me like a glove. some just took a little longer to get that way.

part of the reason i favor remingtons so much is that the grip and wrist area need so little work to feel 'right'... part of the reason i hate savages so much is they need so much work to feel 'right'.

if you have a synthetic stock, l.o.p. can still be shortened, but you may have trouble recontouring the stock to feel better...

Jerry Stordahl · October 29, 2002, 06:35 PM

David4516: I'd go with the Winchester 70. They offer either design of action....push feed or controlled feed. Their quality has generally been better in recent times than Remingtons, according to what I have read on the subject elsewhere. I like the safety with its mid position allowing quick bolt disassembly and also working the bolt in a safe mode.
As for using push feed designs for tactical rifles, that particular feature allows just opening the bolt and dropping a round in the chamber whereas the controlled feed usually requires the cartridge to be seated on the follower. Perhaps a little quicker and more convenient is all. I have both and like the controlled feed but have nothing against the push feed design. There are more options available for Rem. 700s, but the Winnie is not far behind as to availability of goodies. The other guys are right. Get what feels right to you.......you're going to shoot it!

songdoggone · October 29, 2002, 08:41 PM

Had them all. Spend a little more hard earned cash and buy a tika. You won't be sorry.

**Art Eatman** · October 29, 2002, 09:41 PM

Remington came out with the 721 in 1948, with the primary claim to fame being the fully-enclosed case-head. Anyhow, the primary utility is insurance for the handloader. The push-feed will survive higher pressures, since you don't have some thin brass dealing with "Oops!"

I don't see any particular reason, though, for a push-feed to inherently be more accurate than the regular Mauser style.

Stiffer actions seem to be better platforms to build the "ultimate accuracy" packages. I've not compared the dimensions of the rails and such between Remington and others...

Art

jb26 · October 30, 2002, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Youngun:

And another thing, the Marines trust no one but Winchesterwhen it comes to the floorplate of their sniper weapon, the M40A1!
Any remaining doubts are gone!

The floorplate and trigger and trigger guard are from the Win, but the rest of the action is based on the Rem 700.

http://www.snipercentral.com/m40a1.htm
http://www.snipercentral.com/m40a3.htm
http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.ns...6?OpenDocument

youngun · October 30, 2002, 03:37 PM

[irony off]

Jimbo 7 · October 30, 2002, 04:32 PM

I'm gonna take a different route here. i was just faced with the same dillemma recently and ended up with a Ruger M77 Stainless, because of value. I got a great 'all weather' rifle for the same price as the basic Rem. 700 or Win. 70. I've heard negative feedback on the 'new' model 70's, so I was worried about that. the 700 is a GREAT rifle, but for the money, to get a stainless rifle, with a floorplate (translation, NOT an ADL) Remingtons get upwards of $700-$800. So I got the Ruger for about $450 and have been VERY happy!

Let us know what you get!

eyeballz · October 30, 2002, 04:40 PM

My vote goes to the Ruger M77. But the others are excellent also.

Robby from Long Island · October 30, 2002, 04:45 PM

4570Rick,

I want to know how come you only paid $169 when I paid $189. Oh, that's right, mine was a Varmint Special.

Seriously, I would say Remington would be my number one choice but only because of personal taste.

Bought my first Rem 700 Varmint special (.243) in '68, my second was a .222 in 1981 and in 1993 bought my Remington 700 PSS in .223.

I found all three to be more accurate than me but I'm sure the same could be said by others about Winchester and Ruger.

Safe shooting.

October 28, 2002, 02:34 PM	#1
David4516 Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 153	Remington 700 vs Ruger M77 vs Winchester 70... If you could only have one of these rifles, what one would you pick? Are they all pretty much the same or is one better than the others? If so, what makes it better?

October 28, 2002, 02:39 PM	#2
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,828	What caliber? For what use? For "dangerous game" I'd go with a Model 70. For a pretty rifle, I'd again go with a Model 70. For a varmint gun, or if you're going to have a lot of accurizing work done, I'd get the Remington 700. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

October 28, 2002, 04:25 PM	#4
Omaha-BeenGlockin Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2001 Location: U.S.S.A. Posts: 854	The Remington 700------its sort of like the 10/22 of centerfires. There are more stocks---triggers---scope mounts etc......... There are more gunsmiths who specialize in 700's than any other-----you can take a bare-bones 700 and turn it into anything you want in short order. __________________ I take the leech that's bleeding me Can't stop to save my soul I take the leash that's leading me -------Metallica

October 28, 2002, 09:02 PM	#5
dakotasin Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2002 Location: south dakota, U.S.A. Posts: 136	rem 700. __________________ Hunting is not a matter of life or death. It is much more important than that.

October 28, 2002, 09:56 PM	#6
Art Eatman Staff Lead Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX, USA Posts: 21,050	If your primary use is hunting, and you figure on the occasional snap shot or offhand shot, the one which fits you best is the best. The deal is, mount the rifle to your shoulder with your eyes closed. When you open your eyes, you should be looking right through the sights or the scope. (This holds for shotguns, as well.) After that, which one is prettiest, to you? , Art __________________ You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!

October 28, 2002, 04:19 PM	#3
Sundance Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 836	I ditto Bogie, For a nice quality pleasing to look at hunting rifle...Win Model 70 Classic I like the looks of the Winchester...the word Classic they use describes it to a T. Also the claw extractor is a good solid reliable design. For a precision/sniper rifle...Rem 700 Being a push feed, the 700 has the capability of being slightly more accurate than a controlled feed like the Win and Ruger. The 700 is the basis for most police and military sniper rifles in use in America. But for what it is worth, Rem 700, Ruger 77, Win 70, Browning A-Bolt, etc. They are all good quality designs that will do the job intended just fine, and most specimens are probably more accurate than you are. Buy the one that fits you best with the features you like best, that you think looks the best, or agrees with your wallet best. They are all good.

October 28, 2002, 11:06 PM	#7
JohnDog Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Co Posts: 134	Life's too short... To be limited to just one rifle!

October 29, 2002, 02:44 AM	#9
4570Rick Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2002 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 137	Art Eatman You are exactly right. When I bought my rifle, I looked at Rem, Win, and Browning. In Gemco one day I shouldered all three and on a whim, closed my eyes after getting a fix on a sprinkler head. I shouldered, opened my eyes and the Remington 700 LH told me the sprinkler was "dead meat". $169.00 later the Rem. was mine. It is more about what fits you than anything else period. __________________ When the government fears the people there is liberty; when the people fear the government there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

October 29, 2002, 05:46 AM	#10
cratz2 Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2002 Location: Indy, IN Posts: 340	I have at least one of each. I would say that, while I like Remington, the brand best, I tend to like Winchester and Ruger rifles more when I actually handle them in the store. Actually, based purely on gun-shop impressions, I'd put Tikka and CZ over 'the big three'. __________________ PhotoAlbum Last edited by cratz2; October 30, 2002 at 10:42 AM.

October 29, 2002, 11:31 AM	#12
youngun Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 323	My guess- Remington got to the push-feed design faster and was able to make a cheaper gun, while Winchester alienated most every loyal customer by pumping out crap (new ownership?) Fast-forward 30+ years later, the professional sector has been outfitting M700's with every thing imagineable, accessories, specialized gunsmiths, and Winchester finally decides they did have a good gun after all and tries to start marketing it again. [To be fair, I'm sure advances in computer-aided manufacture had a lot to do with their being able to come back with a decent price.] So, let's give the "new" ol' Model 70 a couple of decades and see what happens. Their are definite advantages to both designs. __________________ New firing pin: $12. New extractor: $15. Ballistic fingerprinting: worthless.

October 29, 2002, 11:47 AM	#13
youngun Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 323	And another thing, the Marines trust no one but Winchesterwhen it comes to the floorplate of their sniper weapon, the M40A1! Any remaining doubts are gone! __________________ New firing pin: $12. New extractor: $15. Ballistic fingerprinting: worthless.

October 29, 2002, 11:58 AM	#14
MolonLabe416 Member Join Date: October 26, 2002 Location: Ferndale WA Posts: 66	For general use, I'd go with the Winchester Model 70 Classic or Classic Featherweight in 308. It's, well, a classic. 308 ammo is available at any gun store on the planet. The Remington might have more theoretical accuracy, but both will be more accurate than you are in the field. Other posters are correct, stock fit is critical. Most factory stocks are too long. However, I wouldn't base my decision on that. Any competant gunsmith can reduce the length of pull for you for a nominal fee. __________________ DVC, Steve

October 29, 2002, 02:45 PM	#15
dakotasin Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2002 Location: south dakota, U.S.A. Posts: 136	fit of the rifle... assuming a wood stock...get the one you like (700 were it me), and cut the stock however you see fit to make the gun feel the way you want. we all go to great lengths to make sure the barrels are floated, triggers tuned, and decent recoil pads...why not take a saw to the stock, and cut the rifle? all of my rifles have had their stocks modified...except for savages, most of my rifles have had their l.o.p. shortened to accomodate hunting clothes (read: bulky, cold weather stuff). my savages, in addition to shortnening l.o.p., have had the wrist area trimmed considerably, thumb-flute carved in, the grip area recontoured, the forearm slimmed a little, and put a defined grip-cap in, instead of the ugly, blurry-lined cap that was there... to sum...all of my rifles fit me like a glove. some just took a little longer to get that way. part of the reason i favor remingtons so much is that the grip and wrist area need so little work to feel 'right'... part of the reason i hate savages so much is they need so much work to feel 'right'. if you have a synthetic stock, l.o.p. can still be shortened, but you may have trouble recontouring the stock to feel better... __________________ Hunting is not a matter of life or death. It is much more important than that.

October 29, 2002, 06:35 PM	#16
Jerry Stordahl Member Join Date: July 10, 2000 Location: Halstad, MN USA Posts: 96	David4516: I'd go with the Winchester 70. They offer either design of action....push feed or controlled feed. Their quality has generally been better in recent times than Remingtons, according to what I have read on the subject elsewhere. I like the safety with its mid position allowing quick bolt disassembly and also working the bolt in a safe mode. As for using push feed designs for tactical rifles, that particular feature allows just opening the bolt and dropping a round in the chamber whereas the controlled feed usually requires the cartridge to be seated on the follower. Perhaps a little quicker and more convenient is all. I have both and like the controlled feed but have nothing against the push feed design. There are more options available for Rem. 700s, but the Winnie is not far behind as to availability of goodies. The other guys are right. Get what feels right to you.......you're going to shoot it!

October 29, 2002, 08:41 PM	#17
songdoggone Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 3	Had them all. Spend a little more hard earned cash and buy a tika. You won't be sorry.

October 29, 2002, 09:41 PM	#18
Art Eatman Staff Lead Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX, USA Posts: 21,050	Remington came out with the 721 in 1948, with the primary claim to fame being the fully-enclosed case-head. Anyhow, the primary utility is insurance for the handloader. The push-feed will survive higher pressures, since you don't have some thin brass dealing with "Oops!" I don't see any particular reason, though, for a push-feed to inherently be more accurate than the regular Mauser style. Stiffer actions seem to be better platforms to build the "ultimate accuracy" packages. I've not compared the dimensions of the rails and such between Remington and others... Art __________________ You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!

October 30, 2002, 01:50 PM	#19
jb26 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2000 Location: NE Illinois Posts: 109	Originally posted by Youngun: And another thing, the Marines trust no one but Winchesterwhen it comes to the floorplate of their sniper weapon, the M40A1! Any remaining doubts are gone! The floorplate and trigger and trigger guard are from the Win, but the rest of the action is based on the Rem 700. http://www.snipercentral.com/m40a1.htm http://www.snipercentral.com/m40a3.htm http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.ns...6?OpenDocument __________________ -Joe The P6 by any other name is just as sweet. -jb26 (in an obscure reference to the sig 225) ex libertatum et iusticia, pax

October 30, 2002, 03:37 PM	#20
youngun Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 323	[irony off] __________________ New firing pin: $12. New extractor: $15. Ballistic fingerprinting: worthless.

October 30, 2002, 04:32 PM	#21
Jimbo 7 Junior Member Join Date: October 30, 2002 Location: Alabama, U.S.A. Posts: 10	Different view I'm gonna take a different route here. i was just faced with the same dillemma recently and ended up with a Ruger M77 Stainless, because of value. I got a great 'all weather' rifle for the same price as the basic Rem. 700 or Win. 70. I've heard negative feedback on the 'new' model 70's, so I was worried about that. the 700 is a GREAT rifle, but for the money, to get a stainless rifle, with a floorplate (translation, NOT an ADL) Remingtons get upwards of $700-$800. So I got the Ruger for about $450 and have been VERY happy! Let us know what you get!

October 30, 2002, 04:40 PM	#22
eyeballz Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2002 Posts: 320	My vote goes to the Ruger M77. But the others are excellent also. __________________ WAR EAGLE! EBZ

October 30, 2002, 04:45 PM	#23
Robby from Long Island Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2001 Location: North Babylon, N.Y. Posts: 157	4570Rick, I want to know how come you only paid $169 when I paid $189. Oh, that's right, mine was a Varmint Special. Seriously, I would say Remington would be my number one choice but only because of personal taste. Bought my first Rem 700 Varmint special (.243) in '68, my second was a .222 in 1981 and in 1993 bought my Remington 700 PSS in .223. I found all three to be more accurate than me but I'm sure the same could be said by others about Winchester and Ruger. Safe shooting. __________________ Robby