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Old October 17, 2002, 08:52 PM   #1
stevie_d_64
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Optic options for an "AR"...

Been researching this for some time now, is one of the few technical questions I ask in forums like this, so here the deal...

I have had a Bushmaster A3 "Shorty" with the 14.5" barrel with the factory AK muzzle brake to make it legal for about a year and a half...

I am satisfied with the iron sight "removable handle" for sighting targets...What I am looking for is a fairly interchangable optics package to fit on the rails system integral to the rifle...

I have narrowed this chioce down to 3 options...

Trijicons' TA-01-NSN with associatied mount...Big dollars...

Trijicons' "Reflex" for CQB applications...Medium dollars...

And the EOTech "heads up" CQB optical sight...

Since I have looked at these individually, my only problem with any of them is the line of sight blockage that each present when mounted to the rail system on the rifle...

The front sight is not one that is retractable or that can be laid down to give a clear line of sight through any of these optics...

Does anyone have an idea if this really is a problem in any form of use of the rifle, and do any of these optic systems pose an appreciable amount of line of sight blockage to keep me from quickly sighting in a target in a CQB environment effectively???

I am looking to finalize my decision and aquiring the best optics for my rifle very soon...

If there are any suggestions, or if I need to move this topic to another discussion group, please feel free to e-mail, PM, or reply to this...

I look forward to the input...
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Old October 18, 2002, 06:35 AM   #2
Schmit
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Steve.

There shouldn't be a problem. You put the electronic optics and when they are zeroed they should be Co=Witnessed with the iron sights.

Unless the having the front sight in the electronic optic's sight picture bothers you I wouldn't worry about it. If they bother you that much get a folding one and have it installed. However, I've seen and shot numerous ARs with the"fixed" front sight and a Red Dot sight... no problem.

A couple other sights to consider are Aimpoints Comp M and Trijicon's new TriPower (if they ever start shipping it).
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Old October 18, 2002, 12:44 PM   #3
Andrew Wyatt
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You won't have a problem with mounting the ACOG TAO1 NAN on it either, since the focal plane of the scope is ahead of the front sight.
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Old October 18, 2002, 04:36 PM   #4
AK103K
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I put one of these ARMS QD bases and ring sets on my Armalite flat top. Works great. I dont have a front sight in the way, so my scope is real low. You can get higher rings. This mount lets you get the scope forward enough to get proper eye relief. I'd talk to Wes at MTSN, he's a great guy and will get right back to you with any questions. I had the stuff in two days once I ordered. Heres the link:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=138756

You may want to look at the whole section at AR15.com, theres lots of info there.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=18
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Old October 18, 2002, 04:55 PM   #5
chiz45
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stevie, i have that exact same BM that you have:



will you be using a rear iron sight? either a fold down (ARMS #40) or a fixed rear sight (DPMS; that is what i have)

I have that ReflexII set up so that when i look through the rear sight, the tip of the amber triangle sits on the front sight post. I really like this set up, so much that without the rear iron sight, i get kinda lost when sighting. i am using the #14 mount, and NOT the M4 mount.

With the ACOG NSN, i am not sure if you even need a rear iron sight, as it is 4x and has back up tritium sights on top of it.

as for a 'cqb' environment, you can use both eyes open, and just mash your reticle on whatever your target is. Nice and quick.
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Old October 18, 2002, 09:54 PM   #6
stevie_d_64
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Thanks to all for the info...

Pictures speak a thousand words...

And all of your accounts add up to some very impressive experience with systems like this...

That flip up rear sight is something I'll have to consider when I am using the optics instead of the "Handle"...

That "Reflex" is starting to look like the front runner now...The price most want for the TA01-NSN is a bit steep...That was going to be something I was going to save up for...But now, I think I am going to work out the kinks with the "Reflex"...

Any thoughts on a good source for this???
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Old October 18, 2002, 10:04 PM   #7
stevie_d_64
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BTW "Chiz45"...

Is that a cloth "sleeve", or some sort of "para cord" wrapped/tied around your front handguard on your "Shorty"???

And how much did that rear sight set you back...

I hate to sound like I am scrunching $$$, I'm just trying to see how to wrap around some of these mods to the rifle...

If there is a deal to be found, I usually try to find it...hehehe

Thanks again for all of ya'lls inputs...
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Old October 18, 2002, 11:29 PM   #8
chiz45
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You can actually go nuts with these weapon systems, from rails, to foregrips, etc. etc. I wanted to try out a forward pistol grip, but i would have to remove my 'tactical' paracord wrap (stolen idea from Styder Knives) to place the mount. As for my accessories:

DPMS rear sight: there are several fixed sights actually, Bushmaster makes one, Yankee Hill too i believe, but i really like this DPMS rear. Check out www.cmmginc.com; he has the cheapest price that i've seen ($69?). I am beginning to think i really didn't need the elevation adjustment on such a short barreled gun, but oh well, it's there. here's a close up pic:

http://www.cmmginc.com/cmmg_images/t...MSDetsight.jpg

the paracord i put because i like the thickness of the M4 HG's and these are the thin cheapie ones. Also, this helps with heat and sweaty hands. I live in the desert; try leaving the AR in the back of the truck during summer time, then picking it up. youch.

Reflex II: I am not sure what the difference is between the Reflex I and II. However, regardless of what model you get, make sure you know what reticle--dot, triangle, or chevron--you are getting. go to trijicon's webpage (www.trjicon.com), click on 'reflex' and click on the various models. They will show various examples of the aiming mechanisms. I have the 12 MOA triangle. you can mash that triangle on your target up close, and for distance work (200 yards) you can use the very tip of the triangle. Seems to work our ok for me. If the one you buy doesn't come with a mount, make sure you buy the mount! here's a good place for the Reflex:

http://www.swfa.com/riflescopes/trij...rijreflex.html

The last add on that you can't see is i put a Zukem mount on the left upper handguard for flashlight mounting. This requires you to drill and tap the HG. The mount has only one screw, and was made to fit the 6 oclock position on your HGs, and ride in the groove there. I found it hard to actuate a light in that position. Because i have it on at the 10 o'clock position, it rotates, so i mounted it OVER the paracord, and cranked it down. It works ok to mount your Insight technologies M3 light. however, if i had to do it again, i would buy the GG&G M3 mount, as it has 2 screws, and the body is cut to fit the ribbing of the HGs.

here's the link:

http://www.zukem.com/

and GG&G's rail:

http://www.gggaz.com/products/M3IllumRifle.php

good luck! post some pics when you get yours together.
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