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Old September 27, 2002, 12:06 PM   #1
jrsower
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Scenario: What would you do?

You're eating at the Pizza Inn buffet about 8 at night. You finish and walk up front to pay. As you turn the corner to where the cash register is located, you see a BG (by himself) holding a gun over the counter as the pizza boy is scrambling in the register (obviously gathering loot for the BG.) Said BG hasn't seen you yet. You're alone, no family with you. The place has maybe 10 folks left eating. You have your CC weapon on you. What do you do?

This seems a very realistic and possible scenario to me. I frequent the pizza inn just down the road from work. It's been hit probably 3 times in the past two years.
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Old September 27, 2002, 12:28 PM   #2
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Since this is slightly more than theoretical for you, is he between you and the exit or can you make a run for the door in the opposite direction?

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Old September 27, 2002, 12:31 PM   #3
Christopher II
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There's probably an emergency exit somewhere in the dining room. Now would be a good time to use it.

Once I'm in a safe position to do so, 911.

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Old September 27, 2002, 01:28 PM   #4
LASur5r
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Time to act like a sheperd

If those ten folks are together, I'd gather them up and make like a sheperd and get the flock out of there.
Then do the 9-1-1 call.
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Old September 27, 2002, 01:32 PM   #5
Joe Demko
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Somebody has to say it so that everybody else can critique it...

He hasn't seen me? That means I can make a good, clean headshot on the BG and drop him right where he stands.
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Old September 27, 2002, 01:54 PM   #6
Litlman
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Let him have Pizza Hut's Money. If it escalates further the do what you have to. Can you make that shot or will you hit the Pizza Boy? Shooting at a guy with a gun pulled is alot differant than shooting at papper. Besides your reaction time is probably slow due to the digestion of that heavy pan pizza..............





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Old September 27, 2002, 02:44 PM   #7
Erich
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Well, "let him have the money" is one thing, let him threaten me/others with a gun is another.

When I managed a gun store a dozen or so years back, I had a customer in his 70s who experienced a similar situation while he was standing in line at the bank. He shot the gunman in the back of the head (just like Golgo-13 would do).

DA didn't charge him.

Personally, if I have the drop on a jackass who's threatening someone else with a gun, I might be likely to drop the hammer on him.

In the words of Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle,
"Think of it as evolution in action."
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Old September 27, 2002, 03:14 PM   #8
King
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If time permits, I would call 911 and advise what was going down. I would also try to keep from being seen for as long as possible but still able to observe.

That said, it's hammer back and take aim if a clean shot is available. If it looks like the robber does not intend to kill (but merely using his weapon to scare the clerk and rob), I let'em go. If it appears that the clerk is going to be killed or shot, I would likely take him out.

Simply stated, I don't think I could stand by and watch an innocent person be executed.

It's obviously a judgement call, better to avoid bloodshed if at all possible but unless you're there to see how it's going down, you can only speculate.
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Old September 27, 2002, 06:17 PM   #9
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Yeah, if the guy's waving the gun around, no big deal. If it looks like he's raising it up to aim, or makes a similar "more threatening" motion, put him down.
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Old September 27, 2002, 06:58 PM   #10
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Be a good witness until the guy appears to do more than just menace the poor pizza guy. After that you might want to dispatch with all due hast.

Don't just go in there blasting away.
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Old September 27, 2002, 10:52 PM   #11
OF
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If the scumbag shows a pistol in the commisson of a robery, It'd be front-sight/press before you can say 'justifiable'. A situation like this will go from 'looks like empty threat' to 'dead Pizza guy' waaaay faster than you are going to be able to go to red, draw and save the day.

If a slimball points a gun at someone in a threatening manner, you have to assume they will shoot. If you don't, and they do, how could you live with yourself? How much slack are we going to give a scumbag who threatens (and possibly plans) to kill someone for money on the hope that you won't have to shoot and become a part of this? If you don't act, you are gambling not your life, but the life of the Pizza guy on the outcome.

If I took the shot, I could live with the wondering whether or not the guy was really going to shoot or not. I could not live with knowing that I could have saved the Pizza guy's life and chose not to.

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Old September 27, 2002, 11:17 PM   #12
k5blazer
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I'd back away slowly and call 911. I am not trained to intervene in a situation such as this. Can't carry legally in my state anyway.
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Old September 28, 2002, 07:41 AM   #13
King
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For a fact....if you pop the BG, the world is no worse off for it. An armed robber assigns a value to his life equal to the amount of money in the cash drawer.

Dead BG's with gun in hand should viewed as justifiable.
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Old September 28, 2002, 08:21 AM   #14
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Unless life is in "immediate, otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent", lots of risks - possibly only over someone else's property.

If the place has recently been robbed 3 times without anyone getting shot, what makes you to think there will be shooting this time? Unless you start it?
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Old September 28, 2002, 08:35 AM   #15
OF
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Quote:
possibly only over someone else's property
'Possibly', but possibly not. The armed robber is threatening to kill the guy over money. Maybe he'll do it, maybe he won't. It's not my responsibility to figure out what's in his head. I didn't point my gun at someone in the commission of a robbery. When the bad guy decided he was going to commit armed robbery, he lost the benefit of the doubt as far as I'm concerned.

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Old September 28, 2002, 08:39 AM   #16
OF
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Quote:
If the place has recently been robbed 3 times without anyone getting shot, what makes you to think there will be shooting this time? Unless you start it?
You're not starting anything, your're stopping it. And what's so great about getting robbed 3 times? If someone stood up and stuck a .45 in one of those guys faces maybe there wouldn't be any more robberies there. The first time one of the underprivileged entrepreneurs gets a permanent dirt nap I'll guarantee the rest of the little honor students will think twice about armed robbery, at least in that joint.

- Gabe
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Old September 28, 2002, 10:50 AM   #17
rlpinca
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What about his friend that you don't see standing off to the side? You might turn a regular robbery into a bloodbath. What happens if your gun gets hung up in your shirt or he turns right as you start your draw? Most armed robberies don't have anyshots fired. I know there is the possibility, but there's also the possibility of you getting the other 10 customers killed if you try to be the hero. It's not your money, pizza hut isn't going to miss it.

It's hard to say what to do unless you're actually there and can see the bg's actions and attitude. If you truly believe the bg is going to start shooting, by all means remove his head. Just realize that not everyone thinks the same as us and if something goes wrong the da is going to give into the pressure from the media and the antis.
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Old September 28, 2002, 11:19 AM   #18
Greybeard
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' Don't know what state some of you guys are in, but the "He-just-needed-killin'-defense" ain't taught here.

Yep, in Texas, if all went down as planned, the above could and possibly should be ruled "justifiable". But that's not to say the legal system would not subsequently give the "hero" the ride of a lifetime - in all probability, over someone else's money!
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Old September 28, 2002, 12:33 PM   #19
Ben Shepherd
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Get mine out quietly, get a good sight picture(assuming clean line of sight), then inform the BG he has 2 choices, drop it and get on the floor, or get dropped where he stands.

This way if he has buddies hid, they have to decide if they can get you before you sqeeze off.

One of four things, or a combination of them, has gone wrong.

1. The pizza clerk just found out why he shouldn't be an anti.

2. The clerk wasn't paying attention.

3. The pizza place enforces a stupid policy.

4. There are no other people in the place with the ability/backbone to get involved.

This exact situation happened twice in my county last year.

In the first case the BG ended up being shot by several patrons.

The second time the BG pulled his gun and asked for the money. The cashier asked him if he was sure he wanted to do this. When the BG answered "Yeah, why?", he was warned he better look behind him. He turned around and found himself facing several drawn weapons.

No charges filed against any of the patrons in either case.

No attempted robberies so far this year.

Gotta love a pro-gun state, that's attempting to live by the 2nd ammendment.
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Old September 28, 2002, 01:21 PM   #20
King
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My last comment on the subject....it ain't got squat to do with the business's money. Nada, zero, no nothing. No one cares about the pizza places money or protecting the money. The BG is presumably about to kill an unarmed, innocent guy.

If the BG gets dropped, you ask that worker bee if he's glad that you stepped in. You'll be his hero and you'll have done society a favor.

Personally, I'm tired of hearing about armed robbers. When they start getting popped by other people who are fed up with it, perhaps armed robbery incidents will reduce a bunch.

Do you owe it to the community to not do something stupid such as putting others at serious risk or hitting a bystander with shot's you can't make? Yes......

I think if you were there, you would know what action to take for the greater good.
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Old September 28, 2002, 05:55 PM   #21
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There is only one good response. Kill the guy. His act of holding a gun on another person is reason enough. Call 911 after it is over. Cops are only good for taking reports anyway.
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Old September 28, 2002, 07:06 PM   #22
richhelton84
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Drop him immediately

In that situation there is no doubt in my mind what I would do, and there shouldn't be any doubt in the minds of anyone else either. Who knows if he is or isn't going to shoot the cashier?

If you put a bullet through his head, everyone but him is going to make it out fine. There's enough scumbags in the world anyway, and I'm sure we can get by with one less.

What if you don't take action, and he shoots the cashier, and then starts shooting other people? Then it should be your butt in the frying pan as well.

If you have the perfect opportunity to stop a situation like that, and you choose to do nothing, then I must ask WHY THE HECK YOU HAVE A CARRY PERMIT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

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Old September 28, 2002, 07:31 PM   #23
Christopher II
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To protect my life.
Not anyone else's.

- Chris
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Old September 28, 2002, 07:41 PM   #24
richhelton84
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So are you saying that you'd wait around and let him shoot everyone else in the restaurant as long as he didn't point the gun at you? I think that if you have the opportunity to stop something like that, you should do it.

Rich
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Old September 28, 2002, 08:04 PM   #25
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So the BG has a gun drawn and is pointing it at the employee. At what point do you decide whether or not he is going to shoot? What if the BG happens to have stolen a pistol with a light trigger to use in this heist?

It's not about the money!! This idiot is probably going to kill someone and God has placed you in the position to stop him dead in his tracks. If you hesitate you might be feeling like the trooper who killed himself a couple days ago- because he was in the position to prevent a murder (several) and made a small mistake- now the people in the bank are dead (Nebraska bank robbery gone bad).

I vote to drop him where he stands as soon as a clean shot is available.
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