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Old January 3, 2000, 05:43 PM   #1
Ldoll
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I'm interested in buying a Remington model 700 sendero in one of these calibers.
It will be mainly used for targets, varmints, and maybe for deer hunting in Pa.
Please help me so I don't make a mistake.
-----------------------------------------

Thanks for all of the info.

I have a follow up question to this subject. Which caliber would have better accuracy?





[This message has been edited by Ldoll (edited January 03, 2000).]
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Old January 3, 2000, 06:51 PM   #2
labgrade
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For what you stated as the intended use - buy either. Put a good scope on it & enjoy.
BTW, either will do deer in a heartbeat.
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Old January 3, 2000, 08:27 PM   #3
Art Eatman
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Agree with Labgrade. The .25-06 might be a bit "better" on varmints. Basically, you can use a lighter bullet, just becase of the slightly smaller bore-diameter. The resulting higher velocity means a flatter trajectory. This helps a bit on longer shots on smaller targets, where you are "guesstimating" the range. Its 117-grain bullet will drop a deer "deader'n a hammer".

The .270 will let you use a 150-grain or even a 160-grain bullet should you decide you need heavier bullets for larger game. But I've killed quite a few deer with its 130-grain bullet, the preferred load.

All in all, though, the practical difference isn't all that much. If it matters, I'm guessing that if you don't reload, there is more availability of .270 ammo...

Have fun, Art
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Old January 3, 2000, 08:27 PM   #4
Ankeny
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I agree with Labgrade. However, I prefer the 25-06 for varmints (better selection of bullets) and the 25-06 is plenty for deer.
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Old January 3, 2000, 09:06 PM   #5
MAD DOG
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The .270 is a great round. One of the best all around calibers ever.
With that in mind, I want to say a couple of things about the 25-06.

A while back, a good friend wanted me to build him a light weight rifle for white tail hunting from tree stands.
He was absolutely nuts about the .257 Roberts Improved, and wanted a short action bolt gun in that caliber. He was convinced that the .257 Roberts Improved had magical powers, and could not live without one any longer.

As I had none of those laying around, and he was in a big hurry to get it for a hunt about two weeks later, I sent him a light weight short action in 25-06 instead.
Same bullet size, more zip in the round when it goes BANG by far.
The short action I sent was a Ruger #1 that I had redone with a lighter barrel and a lightened, bedded stock. It mounted a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9 power scope.
The trigger broke at a crisp two pounds.
I sent a nice letter along with it, explaining that I would loan him this fine rifle, but wanted it back after he got his .257 Roberts. I explained that the rifle was dear to me, and that I expected him to take good care of it. (This last bit was just to tweak him a bit, as he was very anal retentive about gun care.)
I sent a box of 100 tailored handloads along with it that usually printed about 3/8" at 100 yards, and a sample target.
I put the whole thing in a wooden crate with about 100 screws in the lid, just to make him even more batty.

He was really mad at me by the time he opened the box and saw the rifle. He called immediately. I expected this.
Joe: "A single shot? Why the heck did you send me a single shot? I am not a beginner here, ya know! I asked for a bolt gun! With a magazine! And all of those screws! It took me about an hour to get them all out of the lid! You are a SICK person! 25-06? What the heck is that? It sure as hell ain't a .257 Roberts by God...Rant, rant, grumble, etc."

I asked, "Uh, How long have you been hunting, Joe?"
Joe: "Only about 45 freaking years!"
Me: "How many times have you had to shoot a deer twice?"
Joe: "Never!"
Me: "So, why NOT a single shot rifle? It is lighter than the bolt gun you wanted, and has more reach and power. Try it, and tell me what you think."
I hung up in the middle of his next tirade.

With no other alternatives left to him, he tried it at the range, and was impressed with the accuracy and modest recoil.
Then, he took it hunting.
He shot a whitetail in the neck at about 90 yards out of a tree stand on the edge of a big grassy peanut field laying fallow.

He called me that afternoon from a diner in the small burg he was hunting near.

Joe: "That thing is a damned death ray!
I never saw ANY animal drop so fast. It was down before I had recovered from the recoil! I thought it had run off, and was cursing you up a blue streak, but when I went to find sign, I found the deer dead in it's tracks, laying in the tall grass. It hadn't even taken a step!"

Me: (Tongue firmly in cheek)"How many times did you have to shoot it?"

Joe: "Once! Forget about that Roberts thing, and I am keeping this rifle. Make yourself another one! Bye."

I never saw the rife again, except in pictures that Joe sent of the fine Georgia whitetails he bagged with it every season.
Sigh.


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Old January 4, 2000, 10:52 PM   #6
muleshoe
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Both are excellent rounds and extremely accurate, you can hardly go wrong with either. I've owned both and still own the .270, only because the 06 is a bit light for elk although I've known guys who use them on elk. If deer is the largest animal you will ever be shooting then the .25-06 will work fine. I shot an antelope in the neck with my .25-06 and I believe it was a 119 gr. HP, darn near took his head clean off, major trauma. I think the .25-06 has less recoil than the .270 and that could make a difference after a day of varmint shooting. I've had my nose split open more than once from my .270, it kills on both ends. Ammo is probably more readily available for the .270. Looking back on my post I don't think I've made a point in either direction, so I guess the moral to this story is you can't go wrong with either. You will enjoy whichever you buy.
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Old January 5, 2000, 01:00 AM   #7
Michael64
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Muleshoe
How did you get your nose split open with the .270? Thought they kicked less than a 30-06.
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Old January 5, 2000, 10:58 AM   #8
labgrade
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Thought about this after I last posted. Either of your choices will do just fine but .243Win or 6mmRem might be more to your liking.

Lighter bullets for varmiting & targets - lighter recoil & both can be very accurate.
& each has the advantage of being loaded up for deer-size game. Partial to .243 myself although there's no practical difference.

I still use a 1964 M700ADL .243. Takes varmits to ~400yds and all deer died w/in 10'
Maybe a bit light for the bigger mulies but plenty for the average wood patch whitetails.
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Old January 5, 2000, 11:38 PM   #9
Art Eatman
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Hey, labgrade! Make up your cotton-pickin' mind!

I bought a little Sako carbine in .243 along about 1970-ish. Took it to the benchrest a year or so ago and covered three holes with a dime.

I dunnot why I started using the 85-grain Sierra HPBT, but I found it works great on whitetails in the 120-lb (field dresssed) size range. Either that bullet or the 70-grain Hornady are just real rough on coyotes, much less jackrabbits. And absolutely delightful on feral housecats!

Light recoil? What recoil?

I prefer not to use it on larger deer, as a poor hit is less likely to put the animal down long enough for a second shot, compared to, say, a .30-'06.

Hey, nothing like second and third opinions, to confuse the issue!

, Art
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Old January 8, 2000, 07:38 PM   #10
slymule
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Michael64, muleshoe has a Rem700ADL (I also have one), and I can verify that it has indeed dotted his eye and the bridge of his nose before. LOL HarHarHar But I cannot lie...I've done the same thing myself. That Rem700ADL is a kickin sucker. I have since put a Pachmyer Decellerator pad on mine and its alot sweeter to shoot now. I have shot some 30-06's that kicked worse (Winchester mtn. rifle) and some that weren't as bad as the Rem700ADL in .270, just depends on the rifle. To give you another example that Rem700 without the pad, kicked worse than my Ruger77 in 7mag, it came stock with a small pad. By the way I have since put a Decelerator pad on it also - I'm not much of a fan of recoil. To give you more insight, Muleshoe is about 6'2" and 220lbs - not a small guy. Dotting your eye is kinda like riding a horse - if you do it alot, sooner or later your gonna hit the ground ...or dot your eye, whichever the case may be.
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Old January 8, 2000, 07:56 PM   #11
labgrade
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Or, how 'bout a ... ?

The 87gr Hornady's were my .243's favorite.
& this ADL's got a solid aluminum buttplate on it. Never even sen another with one of those.

Back to the top - yup, get that 25-06 or .270
(or a .243)
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Old January 8, 2000, 09:41 PM   #12
Bud Helms
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Mad Dog,

Bless your soul.

That story summarizes what I have preached for years about single shots. And a Ruger No. 1 is an exceptionally fine example.

Good on you.

Now if bore expansion ratio could become part of the standard discussion ... I admit, I have a thing about efficiency.

A 250 Savage Ack Imp will get the job done. And not "just barely" either, but with room to spare. The difference between a standard .257 Roberts and a .25-'06 is .... well, what the heck. It's been said before and you've probably heard it.

As for the .270, I'm still trying to figure out its reason for existence. I think the .270 demonstrates that every nook and cranny of "caliber" will eventually be filled up. A .277? Why?

Most (not all) reloaders do nothing with the .270 Winchester. Know why? Because the .277 bullet is not common with any other factory round. If you have a box of .308 bullets you can load them in anything with a .308 bore. But the .270 ?? ... there isn't anything else that uses .277 bullets!

That, coupled with the fact that it's capabilities are overlapped by the available .284s and .264s it is one of the obscure "jokes taken seriously" by shooters in the twentieth century.

Sensop

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited January 08, 2000).]
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Old January 9, 2000, 12:33 AM   #13
Art Eatman
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Sensop: Ya gotta remember that the .270 showed up in 1923. How many of the other cartridges you mention were around, then?

From personal experience in comparison with the .30-'06, the 130-grain bullet in the .270 will pretty much do what a 150-grain will do in the '06, and with just enough less recoil that some people had reason to prefer it.

If you put a properly-designed bullet into the right spot on a targeted animal, the difference between any 25-caliber cartridge and all the rest on up through 30-caliber is mostly a figment of the shooter's imagination.

Never forget; write this down: Figments Are Fun!

, Art
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Old January 9, 2000, 01:53 AM   #14
Bud Helms
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Well, it's hard to deny facts, I guess. 'Hard as I try.

You're right about something else too.

Figments ARE fun!

Peace,

Sensop
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Old January 9, 2000, 01:56 AM   #15
Sodbuster
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All right! Elmer Keith and Jack O'Connor still live on The Firing Line!

I started out shooting a .270 and 30 years later, I still have that Model 70. I've never hunted with a 25-06, but I know enough people who have. It's a fine cartridge too.


------------------
Hoka-hey

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