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Old September 18, 2002, 03:09 PM   #1
newbird
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1911 in .40 cal??

I considering buying a kimber stainless gold match in .40 and was also thinking about getting a .357 barrel for it (.357sig 5inbarrel+sweet), what do you think about this, would I be better to just get it in .45 cal , would the gun still be worth as much in the .40 cal or worth more in .45 ???
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Old September 18, 2002, 03:18 PM   #2
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I think both would be great choices. My suggestion would be to buy what you like and can shoot best.

As far as value goes ... that's set as much by the condition of the gun at the time you want to sell it than anythinge else.
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Old September 18, 2002, 03:54 PM   #3
hitnthexring
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1911 Design in 40S&W is a Bad Idea.

"Gun Tests" magazine recently tested several brands of 1911's in 40 S&W & there were many malfunctions. The 1911 was designed around a low-pressure 45 cal. cartridge & it won't be reliable with a 40 cal.
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Old September 18, 2002, 04:16 PM   #4
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Newbird, the kimber in 40 is a sweetheart of a gun. However, it may be sensitive to load length. If you handload, get some 10mm magazines, and load the ammo to about 1.200" oal. If you use only factory ammo, try different loads and find one that works 100%. A good friend of mine has the model with adjustable sights and uses it for USPSA L-10 division with fantastic results. He uses McCormick 10mm mags with the 9 round capacity and has had narry a hiccup with factory or handloads, save for out of spec reloads. Around here, Northern Nevada, the 40 commands a slightly higher price.
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Old September 18, 2002, 04:22 PM   #5
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Baloney!

If that was Gun Tests opinion, then they got that one wrong... they may have had bad luck with the .40 pistols they had to test but that doesn't condemn the 1911/.40 combination!

The .38 Super ain't no low pressure cartridge nor is the 10mm Auto.

The .40 cartridge length and the pistols feed ramp profile have more to do with it than the pressure generated by the cartridge. Heck, the magazine can have more to do with it than anything else... I use 10mm mags in mine without any problems.

I have a Sprignfield Mil-Spec in .40 S&W that runs just fine, as well as a Delta Elite that runs just fine, and a pair of Springfield loadeds in 9mm that, yep, run just fine.
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Old September 18, 2002, 04:27 PM   #6
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Get what you want.
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Old September 18, 2002, 04:29 PM   #7
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For not being reliable, a lot of competition shooters run 1911 style pistols in 40. I've had 2 Paras in 40, an LTD and LDA. Both ran fine on ANY factory loads I've tried. I sold the LDA and went to a CZ for production gun shooting. Just could not get used to the trigger on that pistol. It worked great, I just didn't shoot it well. As for the worth or value being affected by the caliber you pick, I wouldn't let that be a factor. With a quality pistol like a Kimber either caliber should provide a good value. Pick the round that best fits your needs. Both calibers. are majors and popular in law enforcement and civilian use. I really do not see a downside to either choice. That's a good place to be.
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Old September 18, 2002, 05:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
The 1911 was designed around a low-pressure 45 cal. cartridge & it won't be reliable with a 40 cal.
Nonsense.
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Old September 18, 2002, 05:42 PM   #9
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I think just getting the .45 ACP would be best.But it's what you want,Not what we want.
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Old September 18, 2002, 05:52 PM   #10
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"1911 in .40 cal??"


Well, I could care less about Gun Test, but FYI Dan Wesson is offering its 1911-style Pointman Major in .45, 10mm, .40S&W and, I believe, 9mm.

Interestingly, the Glock 10mms are 3-guns-in-1, precisely because of their ability to accept aftermarket barrels in .40 S&W and .357 Sig. The stock 10mm mags work with these other calibers because both are case-derivatives from the parent 10mm. Their case-dimensions, where they count for feeding, extraction and ejection, are the same as the 10mm.

Thus, if you can get a 10mm 1911 and 10mm mags (e.g., CMC or Colt Delta Elite mags), then you should easily be able to also shoot .40S&W and .357 Sig, provided you have extra barrels in these calibers "fitted" to your 10mm 1911. Once fitted, they should be an easy "drop-in" or "swap-in" proposition, just as with the Glock 10mms, and you've got 3-1911s-in-1.

If you've only got an interest in the .40 and the .357 Sig, just have a 5" .357 Sig barrel fitted to your .40 1911.

HTH.
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Old September 18, 2002, 06:05 PM   #11
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.40 S&W / .45 ACP

Kimbers cant be beat in eather cal. Have had both and they ran fine. Auto loaders by nature sometimes need a little TLC from a good smith. I shoot IPSC production with a Beretta 96 an shoot limited with a hi cap Para P-16.Well over 1 K through the para with nary a hic-up and same with the 96. Although when reloading the rounds for the Beretta I had to shorten the OAL to fit in the 96 mags,a bunch shorter than the Para. Both feed fine with the shorter rounds 1.130.
Shoot safe ,shoot fast, all "A's"....
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Old September 18, 2002, 06:30 PM   #12
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My Kimber Gold Match ran very well for the 100 rounds (yes only 2 zeros ) I put through it before it became a 10mm. I still have the .40 barrel but there just doesn't seem to be any reason to downgrade.

The biggest trick for both .40 and 10 is good magazines. This is true of any pistol design but seems to be even more of a factor with this design in the caliber under discussion. And even more of a problem as it is not as popular a chambering for 1911 though it does seem to be growing.
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Old September 18, 2002, 07:15 PM   #13
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1911 in 10mm yes.

But in 40Sw I can't see the real ballistics advangtage over a 185 or 200 grain 45 ACP round.

But I must say, Kimber is my fav 1911 manufacturer and only Cold makes the Delta elite in 10mm and the jury is still out on those 1911's holding up to the long term use of Norma or handloaded nuclear 10mm ammo.

If you're looking for a platform, my man above is right.

My Glock 20 has a 6" KKM hunting barrel in 10mm for small hog and big deer, a 357 sig Federal arms barrel for CCW practice for my G32/G33, and a Federal Arms 40SW barrel for when I want to practice with 40SW.

All drop in barrels with some 24 # extra power recoil springs. No other modifications to the guns. And with adjustable sights, you can make minor adjustments - if you need - I don't have to. 2-3" groups at 50 yards offhand with 10mm and 357 sig at least.

Now that's the ticket!
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Old September 18, 2002, 07:40 PM   #14
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Go for it. I have a 1911 fitted with two barrels, .40 S&W and 10mm. All I do is swap out barrels and recoil springs. Some of what has been said is true. It took a while to find the right combination of mags, recoil springs, and loads to perform at the level I expect. I expect a lot. I am shooting this pistol in the IDPA Nationals in two weeks in .40. Since it's last cleaning, it has digested over 500rds. I know it has over 5000 through it, more likely twice that as I am not the original owner.

While I might not want a .357Sig 1911, 10mm oh yea, there is no reason why it can not happen. You will probably have to play with it some, and try a few combinations of mags and followers, but all that can be done.
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Old September 18, 2002, 09:41 PM   #15
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Purchased a Para-Ordnance P16.40 LTD a few years ago and have put at least 1500 rounds thru it without the slightest failure of any kind.

The only ammo I use is Remington's 155 gr. JHP (R40SW1) that has a muzzle velocity of 1205 FPS and FPE of 499. This is not their Golden Saber round, just their standard JHP.

Using Para's extension base pad and 1 in the chamber, the P.16 holds 19 rounds of .40 S&W.

Safe shooting.
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Old September 19, 2002, 03:32 PM   #16
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Shorter OAL cartridges (9x19, .40 S&W, .357 Sig) CAN run fine in a 1911, but it is trickier than getting cartridges about the same OAL as .45 ACP (e.g. .38 Super, 9x23, 10mm, etc.).

One aspect of higher pressure cartridges that bears noting is that they are tougher on the extractor (the extra pressure causes them to "stick" in the chamber more). The stock MIM Kimber extractor might work fine, but I'd go for a heavy-duty aftermarket part (about $30) or even an AFTEC.

If there is a .40 S&W 1911 to convert to 10mm, Kimber is it, they have the best (CNC machined from forged steel) frames & slides you can get this side of a Caspian. Delta Elites have extra-heavy slides, but I dunno how much of a difference that makes compared to the Kimber.. If you are paranoid, you could maybe make up the difference by using a Schuemann bull barrel, which is about the most massive, overbuilt barrel you can get your grubby hands on. I got to handle one and WOW that is one massive hunk o' steel.

If you want a dedicated high-speed 9mm cartridge for a 1911, the 9x23 is the best in all respects, although you might have to hunt around for factory ammo.
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Old September 19, 2002, 09:34 PM   #17
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I saw the Dan Wesson Pointman 10mm mentioned a ways back...does anyone here know a dealer in the Seattle or Portland area who sells these guns? I tried both the Seattle area dealers listed on the Dan Wesson site and neither phone number worked!

Thanks for the assist.

Dave
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