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Old September 10, 2002, 01:56 PM   #1
rusher
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SKS three round burst

Hello gents


I've had my Chinese SKS for over 10 years now, and hardly ever a problem. Recently down at the local indoor firing range it started to do somthing interesting, 3 round burst.........after the amusment wore off....long after the amusment wore off and my mind back in operational mind set. I reloaded the magzine and the same affect I squeeze the trigger I get 2-3 round bursts not all the time but pretty frequently.

I am pretty much assigned to the premise the it's the trigger group. The trigger group I have is the milled type. If I decide to just replace rather than repair.....are they pretty much interchangable??

any pitfalls to watch out for ....milled vs stamped trigger groups......russian, yugoslav vs chinese???


and one more last minute question: which do you prefer the sporter type or the Draganov type stocks????


Thanks for your time and opinions
Rusher
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Old September 10, 2002, 03:02 PM   #2
ehenz
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from my experience with the sks the trigger group simply replaces the old.

On another note, it may be that your firing pin is too long, or worn and narrowed, and can be slamming into the next round. I recall this being a problem on some china models. If you do a search for SKS you might find more info.

I like the standard stock. The short ones my look cool but I did not like the feel. But that is really up to your tastes.

Good Luck!
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Old September 10, 2002, 04:24 PM   #3
Mike Irwin
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It may be a simple drop in, it may require fitting.

Simply put, dozens, if not hundreds, of factories have made the SKS rifle, in quite a few nations.

Sometimes that means that you don't get a perfect fit, especially when you're dealing with weapons that may have been made in a nation that didn't have the highest manufacturing standards.
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Old September 10, 2002, 04:32 PM   #4
Gewehr98
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It never ceases to amaze me.

Somebody gets a SKS that burst fires, so what do they do? Put more ammo in the gun and watch it repeat the performance.

SKS rifles can and do slamfire. New or arsenal rebuilt rifles come slathered in cosmoline, including the firing pin and firing pin channel in the bolt. If that firing pin gets stuck in the forward position because of all the cosmoline and goop, you have what's called an "open bolt auto". Not good, especially when the firearm wasn't originally intended to be an open bolt auto. Don't shoot the gun anymore before having it checked out. I'm serious as a heart attack.

Rusher, I'm being an a**hole on this one. I have a reason. I watched a man die a few years ago from an SKS that went full auto on him and his buddy after they fed it from a stripper clip. Neither had a good hold on the full-auto SKS, and it rotated up as it continued firing. The last round in the magazine entered his face and exited the top of his head, right there on the firing line. Here's the report, including info from the Sacramento Bee:

California Accident
Almost at the same time that we received Johnson's warning, we also received a fax of a news clipping from The Sacramento Bee, which reported on the accidental death of a Roseville, CA, man, involving a slam-fire in an SKS rifle.

This was just a coincidence of timing. The rifle involved in the California accident was a Chinese-made SKS, not one of Russian manufacture. The Chinese- manufactured models apparently do not have the missing safety spring problem. In addition, it appears that the safety spring was not involved in the slam-fire.

The Bee reported that a 46-year-old man was killed in a freak and fatal accident while loading his SKS at a practice range. William Ferrante was killed instantly when the gun accidentally discharged and shot him in the face.

According to the report, the victim was being coached by a companion about the use of a strip loader used to insert cartridges into the magazine of the rifle. The rifle was pointed down-range and cradled in the companion's arms when the strip loader triggered the firing pin.

It also somehow overrode the sear that makes the SKS semi-automatic, turning the gun into full automatic fire. The recoil of the first shot kicked the muzzle into the air, and a subsequent series of shots spun it around further. A sheriff's department spokesman surmised that it was the final shot that sent the bullet into Ferrante's face.

The sheriff's department spokesman said that inspection of the rifle by authorities did not find any evidence that the gun had been illegally modified to fire in the full automatic mode. They considered the incident a singular malfunction of the SKS in question.

The Sacramento Bee contacted gunsmith Eric Amundsen who told the paper that the unfortunate misfiring of Ferrante's SKS was the result of a slam-fire. Amundsen also said that while such accidental discharges have been known to happen before, they are not considered a "typical" problem with the SKS. Amundsen and other sources The Bee contacted, in fact, said that such a slam- fire was "a freak accident" because of the SKS's notoriously heavy trigger pull.

Obviously, neither Ferrante nor his companion anticipated a problem. Certainly, if any problems were anticipated, the rifle would have been more firmly and safely pointed down-range.
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Old September 10, 2002, 10:15 PM   #5
Art Eatman
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Another factor is that BATF doesn't care WHY the gun will fire full-auto. In their eyes, it's illegal, and subject to all penalties of unauthorized possession of an unregistered mosheen gun.

In other words, get that critter to a gunsmith ASAP.

Yesterday would be nice.

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Old September 10, 2002, 11:13 PM   #6
C.R.Sam
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G98 and Art both make VERY valid points.

Tis very unsafe.
Tis liable to get you in deep trouble if you keep playin with it that way.

Sam
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Old September 10, 2002, 11:45 PM   #7
Gumbo
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Also, if that bad boy slam fires and does so out of battery, you are gonna have alot of metal in your face and hands. SKS's are great firearms but if the the bolt is really dirty or you put the firing pin in other than the appropiate way the pin can remain extended past the bolt face when it should not. Your problem sounds like a worn sear though. Change that fire control group and do a detailed cleaning. Be safe and stay legal.
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Old September 11, 2002, 12:00 AM   #8
Jamie Young
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This issue has come up so many times in the 2yrs I've been on TFL. I think it was about 2yrs ago that somene using WD40 on an SKS had problems with it slam firing. I'm preaching to the choir here but I've read credible reports of lawsuits being filed in the mid 90's due to problems with some of the earliar imports. Its seems that not cleaning or using the wrong lube can make an SKS firing pin screwy. Just about every slam fire problem I've heard of was caused by the firing pin sticking.

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Old September 11, 2002, 09:12 AM   #9
TaxPhd
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Just a point of clarification, but the gun in question would not be an "open bolt auto." Rather, it would still be closed bolt, but it would be slam firing. To be open bolt, the bolt must be retained in the open position by the sear. Pulling the trigger releases the bolt.
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Old September 11, 2002, 11:11 AM   #10
Tropical Z
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I'd take the bolt apart and clean it with mineral spirits.After it has been throughly scrubbed front to back,i'd take it out and load two rounds into it and see what happens.After doing this several times,try three rounds several times.This may be nothing more than the sticking firing pin.My Norinco's pin was movable but very definitely "gummy".If it still acts up,its gunsmith time.
P.S.make sure you completely disassemble the bolt down to the firing pin and make sure you watch how it comes out,as reassembly incorrectly can cause a slamfire.One notch is more forward than the other.
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Old September 11, 2002, 11:16 AM   #11
Poodleshooter
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Check the firing pin channel for an obstruction keeping the pin forward, then check your sear and disconnector for wear. When it runs away, does it stop only when you release the trigger, or just stop on it's own?
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Old September 11, 2002, 12:18 PM   #12
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For some reason everyone immediately blames doubling or tripling in an SKS on a stuck firing pin. This usually isn't the case. Before you spend half of what the gun is worth buying a new dadgum trigger group, try the following.

It's is more than likely your sear sticking. Pull your trigger group from the rifle and degrease the sear in the front of the trigger group well with brake cleaner or gun scrubber.

If that does not fix it (it probably will), then replace the sear return spring (same as the mag release spring and quite cheap) with a new wolfe spring. While you have it out you can polish the rails and channels that the sear rides in with a dremel to give a lighter/smoother trigger pull. It will not in any way be dangerous as long as you leave the bearing surfaces where the sear contacts the hammer alone.

While you have the gun apart and have the gunscrubber you might as well degrease the bolt and firing pin. It works better if you disassemble the bolt and clean it with long Qtips, but it will work well enough just hosing it out whole. Be sure to blast the inside of the bolt well with the gunscrubber.

Let us know what you find.
 
Old September 11, 2002, 08:49 PM   #13
WilderBill
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Absolute minimum would be to spray the heck out of the bolt face with gun scrubber, carb cleaner or brake cleaner putting as much as possible around to firing pin.
That might be enough. As noted, check with 2 rounds first.
In any event a good cleaning of everything is always a good idea and not likely to make it worse.
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Old September 12, 2002, 01:12 PM   #14
Mr.Wingshooter
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Just Clean it really good, nothing more.

I shot the crap out of my SKS last year and forgot to give it my annual cleaning. First time out to the range this summer and it gave me 2 or 3 slam fires. I took the gun all the way apart and cleaned everything with breakfree, wiped it semi dry put it back together and it worked like it used too. I almost bought a AR the other day but then I thought, I would have to clean it every damn time, so now I'm shopping for a Vepr.
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Old September 13, 2002, 10:39 PM   #15
Gewehr98
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TaxPhD, thanks for the clarification.

I meant to impress upon Mr. Rusher that the lethal slamfiring SKS functioned much like a open-bolt auto, with a "fixed" firing pin doing the job of lighting off the rounds. The above-mentioned shooter would probably be still alive were he to have a true open-bolt auto, because the trigger would have held the bolt back were it not pulled, which was the case in the unfortunate incident of this particular SKS at Ione, CA.

Early in 1990, I owned a Chinese "Paratrooper" variant SKS. It shaved brass pretty regularly, and I found out personally what a slamfire was. Judicious cleaning became the order of the day with respect to that gun. It was later sold, after being used to qualify for a DCM M1 Garand. The proceeds from the sale actually paid the $165.00 price of the Garand.
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Old September 15, 2002, 12:10 AM   #16
Gumbo
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I don't know where you got your info Kilgor but it is suspect. You do make a good of cleaning the firing pin and the bolt though. Drive out the pin that retains the the firing pin. Soak the bolt in a cleaner of your choice. Run pipe cleaners through the firing pin channel until it is squeaky clean. Blow out the bolt and lube the exterior surfaces. Wipe off all excess and reassemble. Almost every SKS slam fire can be attributed to a dirty or improperly assembled bolt assembly. It is possible that you have a worn sear. If this is the case, your rifle will stop slamming if you release the trigger. If this is the case, buy a new fire control group and have fun.
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Old September 15, 2002, 09:53 AM   #17
KilgorII
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Where I "got my info?"

I got my info from working on SKS's.

I'm not saying his sear is worn. I am saying it is probably gummed up with cosmoline and dirt and doesn't slide freely on its rails. If this is the case when he releases the trigger it will keep firing until the jouncing of the gun combined with the pressure of the sear spring move the sear back into position.

If he will follow my advice in my earlier post he will have a working gun for the least expense needed.

Quote:
It is possible that you have a worn sear. If this is the case, your rifle will stop slamming if you release the trigger. If this is the case, buy a new fire control group and have fun.
This shows that you have never actually repaired or tried to understand how an SKS's trigger group works.

The sear is a $4 part that can be replaced in 60 seconds. Versus a $100-150 trigger group (depending on condition).

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