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Old September 7, 2002, 06:23 PM   #1
p3ordie
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Newbe IPSC question

Hello,
I have noticed there are quite a few 1911 (.45cal) type pistols used in IPSC. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I learned today that you score less for the same shot if your using a 9mm factory load. Would the best choice be a .40 cal, less recoil?

Thanks,
p3ordie
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Old September 7, 2002, 07:18 PM   #2
9x45
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Outside of Production class, there is a major/minor scoring factor. If you want a good single action 40S&W, go with an STI.
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Old September 8, 2002, 09:34 AM   #3
kbear38S
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It depends on which equipment division you're shooting in. If you're shooting Production Division, all calibers are scored as minor: A = 5 point, B & C = 3 points, D = 1 point. If you're shooting in Open, Limited, Limited 10, and Revolver Divisions, then hits are score as above if minor, but A = 5 point, B & C = 4 points, D = 2 point if shooting major.

So unless you're shooting in Production Divsion, it is an advantage to shoot a caliber higher than 9x19.

Recoil is a funny thing and 'more or less' recoil are very subjective terms but in general, for a given bullet weight and a given power factor (weight * velocity/1000), recoil is will be exactly the same. Different bullet weights, different powders, and different gun setups will affect what you feel so there's really no easy answer to the issue of recoil beyond that it will take you thousands of rounds of experience to really tell the difference between a .45 with a 230 gr. bullet and a .40 shooting a 180 at the same power factor.

The .40 is very popular in Limited largely because you can get more rounds in a high-cap magazine which means few reloads over a course of fire. It's still highly popular in Limited 10 because many people shooting Limited 10 are doing so with their existing Limited guns which are likely to be .40 and because .40 brass is VERY inexpensive and often even free because so many law enforcement agencies use that caliber and simply discard once fired brass.

I agree with 9x45 that STI International is a great choice and in my opinion, the best value for an IPSC single action gun.

If you prefer to start in Production, Glocks and Berettas are popular and good choices.
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Old September 9, 2002, 08:48 AM   #4
jem375
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In 45ACP, what is the bullet weight most commonly used by top competitors?.....
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Old September 9, 2002, 09:19 AM   #5
Labuyo
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230 gr. since they always come in round nose profile, easier to feed. Its also easier to meet the major power factor requirement with it.
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Old September 9, 2002, 06:23 PM   #6
p3ordie
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kbear38S,


So unless you're shooting in Production Divsion, it is an advantage to shoot a caliber higher than 9x19

I just found out what you meant by this, The scores were posted from yesterdays shoot and I was trying to figure out WHY they have me in a prod-minor class when I'm using a Beretta 96FS. I will not be returning with that pistol, I would be better off bring my Ruger P89. Could someone explain to me why USPSA finds it necessary to penalize a production .40 cal?

Thanks,
p3ordie
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Old September 9, 2002, 07:33 PM   #7
kbear38S
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Quote:
So unless you're shooting in Production Divsion, it is an advantage to shoot a caliber higher than 9x19
Most of the time. If a shooter cannot control recoil sufficiently of a major PF gun, they may be better off shooting minor until they develop the necessary skills to control recoil. My wife's small and not athletic and she spent her first two years of IPSC shooting a Kimber .45 loaded minor. She can shoot just about anything now but there's no doubt she progressed faster with the sport not having to fight the gun.

Production Division was implemented pretty much as a 'shoot what you got' division. The USPSA has long had a problem with people showing up with Rugers, Sigs, and Glocks mostly in 9mm and not returning because they were at a scoring disadvantage to the major PF calibers like .40 and .45 used in Limited.

The intent of Production, therefore, is to provide a place for double action guns to compete equally. If Production was scored major and minor, that scoring issue still exists.

I understand your point about having the penalty of extra recoil shooting major PF loads agains the minor PF 9mm's, but IMO, that's less of a liability than being scored minor and competing against major.

Also, if you reload, you can always download a .40 or .45 whereas you cannot not always upload 9mm to major (SAFELY!).

Quote:
...using a Beretta 96FS. I will not be returning with that pistol, I would be better off bring my Ruger P89.
Maybe not. I would make the decision based on which gun you shoot better. Rugers generally have absolutely horrible triggers and many aren't especially accurate (though usually good enough for IPSC) - you may find that the Beretta acutually works better for you even if you are shooting major loads but being scored minor. Berettas are popular in Production, likely second two Glocks. Rugers are pretty rare, at least at the clubs where i shoot.

You need to find someone with a shot timer and set up some stages and run them a few times with each gun. Compare your times and your points and see what actually works best for you.
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Old September 10, 2002, 08:17 AM   #8
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quote:

So unless you're shooting in Production Divsion, it is an advantage to shoot a caliber higher than 9x19

On the other hand, you could just strive for more accuracy; if you're shooting against someone using a .40 or 45 with a Major PF, and you're both shooting "A"s, you're not losing anything by shooting Minor. I normally shoot a Glock 17 in Production, and even when I drop myself into Standard to see how I'd stack up in that division, I'm still normally in the top 5 or so. Don't forget; in Production, you're only shooting against other Production shooters, in Standard, you're only shooting against other Standard shooters, etc. If you want to end up in Standard, then sure, pick the equipment that's going to serve you best in that Division, but don't think that shooting Minor is any more of a hindrance than you let it be.
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Old September 10, 2002, 08:31 PM   #9
WESHOOT2
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"TOY" vs "TOOL"

Shoot whatever you prefer, unless you prefer to win win win; then pick a tool for winning game.

Or, shoot what you carry, and maybe you might win when it matters.

Your results may vary.
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