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Old September 3, 2002, 01:54 PM   #1
jrsower
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Do we really think terrorists are this stupid?

Does anyone else think we're underestimating would-be terrorists? Here's what I'm getting at...it seems to me that we're all putting an awful lot of thought and energy into trying to prevent and then defend against another supposedly immenent and certain airliner hijacking.

I'm not suggesting that our prevention and thinking is wasteful, we're only reacting as we should, but I just don't think they'd try the same thing twice. I get the feeling that while we're all worrying about how many air marshals we have and how poorly trained they are, the Osama dorks are busy planning something else equally as horrific while we focus on the too little, too late plans for airlines.

Maybe I'm overreacting.
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Old September 3, 2002, 02:08 PM   #2
No4Mk1
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Not overreacting.

IMHO. If generals fought wars the way we are approaching homeland security, they would lose every time. If you immediately move your forces to counter the first strike, you leave your flank wide open.

Unfortunately, public policy and military tactics rarely overlap.

HL.
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Old September 3, 2002, 02:20 PM   #3
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Depends on who you ask?

Some people in the public think they are stereotypical uneducated goons.

Some think they are sophisticated well educated worldwide terrorists.


Just depends on who you ask.
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Old September 3, 2002, 04:46 PM   #4
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If you know what we SHOULD be doing, I'm sure Uncle Sam would be glad to hear it. If you have the money and manpower in your back pocket to cover all the bases, I'm sure Uncle Sam would be fascinated to talk to you, to find out where you've been keeping them.

F'r instance, all those NG troops that have been activated recently? They're guarding dams, reservoirs, bridges, power plants--mostly out of the way, no fanfare, but no deep dark secrets, either. (Well, some.)

Do the folks in charge really think the next time, assuming there will be a next time, is going to exactly match the last time?
If you were in charge, would you say "Business as usual, they'll never do THAT again!"?
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Old September 3, 2002, 04:56 PM   #5
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Be prepared for known and unknown threats, and be ready to thwart known and unknown tactics.

Anything else...?

One way to ensure that they employ the airliner hijacking WMD again, is to leave it just as easy to do as it was before.

Bet they don't think we're ALL that stupid....
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Old September 3, 2002, 06:08 PM   #6
No4Mk1
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D.W./Blackhawk

Not sure I am following you, but I think that the point is (or at least my point is) that by necessity we have limited resources available to combat this problem, and piling a whole bunch of them in one place is not really a great way approach it.

Keep in mind that the one hijacking that was stopped on 9/11 was not stopped by any security measure in place at the time, and would not likely be stopped by any that are in place today. Most of what has been done to airport security in the last 12 months is feel-good window dressing. If we want to effectively deter this threat, weapons in the cockpit would do more than every other program put into place thus far.

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Old September 3, 2002, 08:34 PM   #7
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Are terrorists that stupid?

The fact of the matter is that some are, some are not. What about the idiot who had pastique (plastic sp?) explosive in his shoes that he hoped to ignite by setting his shoe on fire?

We won't be ready for everything an no doubt the better trained and better informed terrorists will penetrate further than those who are poorly trained or poorly informed.

Notice that on 9/11, the terrorists that took over planes did so through coordinated efforts and all making use of weaponry that was not disallowed on planes. In other words, they worked within the system as well informed and well trained terrorists.

Aside from all the safety issues, rules, and regulations, some of the hardest folks to stop are going to be those that find ways to make the system work for them. That does not matter if it is on plane, ships, busses or whatever.
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Old September 3, 2002, 09:47 PM   #8
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It's not necessarily a matter of smart or stupid. I've hear obviously intelligent Arabs spouting the most absurd conspiracy theories with absolute conviction.

A lot of them are just plain nuts.
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Old September 4, 2002, 08:30 AM   #9
David Scott
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All this fancy-dance security in the airports is just so the Gubmint can shoiw that they did something. It doesn't matter that they are closing one barn door out of a thousand, after the horse has gone. Next time it won't be a horse, it'll be a goat or a mink or a chicken, and another barn. It doesn't matter that they're subjecting thousands of innocent citizens to measures that a person of ill intent cound get around with a little practical thought. The Gubmint's response to the 9/11 attacks has two objectives:

1. To justify increased exercise of Gubmint power. The people who run the Gubmint are elitists; they truly believe that they are superior to Joe and Jane Average, and that it is their repsonsibility to run our lives for us, because we simple common folk wil just hurt ourselves if we're not nannied by the elite.

2. To ensure re-election of the current administration. It's well known that voters hate to change leadership in times of war. It's also obvious that "War on Terrorism" news diverts voters from considering how poorly other issues are being managed. Just as George Senior had the Gulf War to divert people from the savings & loan scandals, Dubya has Bin Laden to keep our minds off rampant corporate fraud and massive unemployment.
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Old September 7, 2002, 06:34 AM   #10
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The terrorist are well trained and decisive in their action, no matter what the consequences. They are not idiot, stupid, or moron. But instead they are determined to put into action of their assignment to terrorize if we may call that way.
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Old September 7, 2002, 07:00 AM   #11
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What COLOR alert level today??

I need to know !!

Any one needing used nail clippers or "as new" nail files, I have a friend in the Security at our local airport..
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Old September 7, 2002, 10:07 PM   #12
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There is no way to stop determined terrorists. History has proved that over and over again. You can have all the "homeland security" crap you want, but bear in mind, that it is all for show.

There is only one way to stop terrorists, and that is to prempt them, kill them first. If you have to do it in their AO, fine, if we have to do it here, thats fine too.

I have no problem with first strike, or in killing everyone that we can identify as being associated with these groups.
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Old September 7, 2002, 10:45 PM   #13
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Mannlicher beat me to it.

The best defense is a good offense. If we are burning down their houses they can not be burning down our house. We need to continue to hunt them down, chase them out and kill them.


AIRBORNE!
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Old September 8, 2002, 12:41 PM   #14
KPS
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I certainly don't think the terrorists are stupid.Their hijackings were well thought out and practiced before executed.I doubt they would think about hijacking another plane.They caught us by surprise and it worked.I'm sure they'll get us again by surprise.
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Old September 9, 2002, 01:12 PM   #15
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I think that it's important to make a public show of how tight we have made security since 9/11, just to ensure that they don't try it again, and yes, to reassure a lot of nervous Nellies here at home that we are working as hard as possible to make the odds as low as possible that it would happen again.

With that said, I DO NOT want the Office of Homeland Security to detail how good our current protection at nuclear power plants, the borders, dams, reservoirs, etc. is. I want it to be somewhat unknown, so that it would be harder to find a weakness that a terrorist could exploit.

That means the rest of us may have to deal with the perception that the "authorities" aren't doing anything. Maybe they aren't, but maybe they are and they aren't publicizing it to a great extent.
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Old September 9, 2002, 01:46 PM   #16
rhedley
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"Color code"

Rammer

Quote:
With that said, I DO NOT want the Office of Homeland Security to detail how good our current protection at nuclear power plants, the borders, dams, reservoirs, etc. is. I want it to be somewhat unknown, so that it would be harder to find a weakness that a terrorist could exploit.
I understand this and agree somewhat, but I worry if the measures are *really there* or just another measure like the "Color code" alert...

What alert level are we today? [color code]
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Old September 9, 2002, 06:07 PM   #17
KPS
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Well They certainly are having no time coming through our borders.The Border Patrol is finding 1 in 10 illegal border crossers detained is not Mexican.They are finding many from Yemen,Egypt and the Middle East.Many paying up to $30,000 each to the coyotes to take them over.I'm also skeptical about our system letting them over here on vacation VISA's and never checking to see if they left.What about our childrens schools and universities?If they wanted to hit us hard, they would be easy targets.
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Old September 9, 2002, 07:06 PM   #18
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Stray1, I agree that the best defense is a good offense, but burning down their houses (they suspected terrorist) create more problems to come. If only those terrorist can be identified and put to death immediately is fine but a carpet bombing or raze to fire the houses of a certain country or particular place is insanity. The same insanity of what the terrorist did in the 9/11 killing many innocents persons. And those perpetrators deserve the harshes punishment, if death is appropriate then be it.

I had experienced a lot in the middle east intermingling with Muslims, many were good and against fellow muslims who are hardliners or fanatics. But to sum total, muslims can never be in good terms with christians (there is understanding between personalities or countries but that is only human relations, coupled with politics and vested interest of both sides).

It is an old problem way back to the time or advent of Jesus and Muhammed (Pbu-all). The problem of muslims they don't put to practice the verse in their Koran that the nearest brothers of Muslims are the Jews and Christians, instead what appears now is their best enemies.

In my country, the Abusayaf are real terrorist and hated by the good muslims, these abusayaf are the bad muslims and the good muslims are those selling goods and living with the christians in several parts of the country.

I am for the killing of all the terrorist for they are fearsome group sowing terror mostly to civilians and to our love ones, like our children.

May Allah, God, Lord Jesus put their power to stop or put to an end of all these nonesense war in due time.

Thanks,

PS. The best defense is awareness to your soroundings.
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