gun control - decided by sexism?

[spacemanspiff]

PLEASE, REFRAIN FROM INFLAMMATORY COMMENTS
(i dont want this thread getting locked down because we cant engage in a civilized discussion)

the majority of antis i have encountered have been female. most of the legislation involving gun control stems from the efforts of female activists.

so would our rights as gunowners be any different if men and women didnt share equal rights?

edit - however, i do not wish to diminish the input and value that women have contributed to any issue, whether it be political, religious, social, etc. IMHO, we are all equal, no matter what sex, creed, race, whatever.

[Oleg Volk]

We'd have had fewer rights for several reasons:

all the female gun owners wouldn't be as much of a force

divide and rule would have been even easier for the antis

[DMK]

Cowardice, ignorance and arrogance favor neither sex, nor race, nor religion.

We all have equal opportunity to accept or shirk responsibility.

However that said, women seem generally to be more succeptable to emotional arguments and imagery. The anti-gun movement seems to rely heavily on just that.

[pax]

What an inflammatory topic! (so of course I can't help but jump in...)

I can't help but wonder what you would do about it if the consensus were that women voters are detrimental to your right to bear arms? Start a campaign to repeal women's right to vote?



As for the actual question, I dunno. I find idiots come in both sexes, all ages, and every possible color. Likewise, I find various wrappings on people of value and intelligence.

pax

The vote, I thought, means nothing to women. We should be armed. -- Edna O'Brien

I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand. -- Susan B. Anthony

[DMK]

Great quotes PAX!

[Jim March]

All too many women want gov't to play the role of "mommy". The very first major result of the female vote was prohibition. Hence, I voted "greater than".

However, it's a CULTURAL problem versus biological. Women are being taught that they are inherently weak and need to be "cared for", and that emotional responses are more important than reason and logic - they are taught to mask their intellect in order to be "more feminine". Which is utterly ridiculous.

[Jamie Young]

Less than.

[Geophagus]

I am new to this board and honestly don't know if females in fact tend to be more anti guns. However it wouldn't surprise me. It would seem to in fact stem from women being taught that they need to be protected. However being female I have to say I would rather be armed myself then wait for someone else to come along and save me. Woman do tend to be weaker then men. It is just biology even if we don't like it. Among many other things we are also more likely to be raped. So what logic would lead a woman to be anti guns is beyond me. Seems to me it isn't logical at all.

kathy

[C.R.Sam]

Women's lib and gun ownership rights.

Probably no connection, as PAX says, idiots come in all packages.

But, most gun control laws in this country came after emancapation.

Probably coincidence.

Sam

[Jim March]

"No coincidence" - Sam, you're a hoot . (And I know you know better .)

All: yes, gun control started out in racism, and there's still a lot of that, but it's maintained by the "female vote" as typified by Al Gore, DiFi, all the "touchy feely liberal types".

[C.R.Sam]

Jim...

Sam

[MAKOwner]

I think I heard Ann Coulter ranting about how screwed up most of the government is thanks to the idiot touchie-feelie women's vote... I would agree as most seem to vote on emotion, not on logic or fact. Gun control is no different, it's for the children you know.

[spacemanspiff]

i believe part of the imbalance we witness from women who are governed by emotion, is because for so long, they had no rights nor were ever allowed to express their opinions. and over the period of just a few decades the womens lib movement was nearly won, and all of a sudden women had power to get their voices heard. plus so much emphasis has been placed on equalizing the social and political landscape, that all the issues have been brought to their extremes.
i think that given another generation or two, the battle between the sexes will have died down, and everything will balance out. it may be too optimistic to think that logic will prevail, but at least we all should be making our decisions based on facts.

[gorlitsa]

I find that every woman I know who is rational and fights the instinct (and yes, it is an intstinct) to be lead by her emotions is pro-gun-rights. Unfortunatly, few women are very rational, at least when it comes to subjects having to do with death and children.

However, the same can be true of men. And men are being taught by our culture to act more like women.

[Jim March]

It's cultural stereotypes. Often media-driven.

Girls in high school have trouble getting dates if they're labeled "brains" or "nerds". Think back on how many boob tube shows perpetuate that. Brainy female nerds with problems are a staple of "Buffy", "Smallville" and a buttload of others, when in the same shows the more popular chicks are dumber than a box of rocks.

We all know it's utter crap, but it's crap that *matters* when it comes to "programming" teenage girls. And this has been going on for a LONG time, friggin' *generations* (take "Gidget" :barf: ).

We also know that a girl's self-esteem takes a crashing nosedive somewhere around puberty, and on average never fully recovers. If you *think* you're helpless or worthless or whatever, having the gov't "take care of you" makes sense.

Wake up, folks. This is NOT AN ACCIDENT. Somebody has figured out how to make 51% of the population compliant and pliable, or possibly work like hell to keep 'em that way despite modern reforms and opportunities.

[spacemanspiff]

men have rarely been tasked with depending on the opposite sex for anything. its true that women are still being manipulated (by men) to remain dependant on the male. its a cyclic problem, in that most men dont support women to voice themselves and stand on their own two feet. women have to rely upon themselves and other women, while us men have always had support from our fellowman, even if we are completely wrong. then hypocritcally, we men criticize women for sticking together when they are wrong. we hypocritically expect women to accept the faults of men on a collective level instead of individual. but we still stereotype all women into being emotional wrecks, forgetting the efforts of rational women such as ms coulter, or even the women who post on tfl.

[MeekAndMild]

Greater.

Lib movement especially female promiscuity, serial relationships and greater opportunity for female substance abuse has provided key support for the fragmentation of the family and marginalization of the male parent creating more fatherless children.

Fatherless boys create more crime.

More crime creates more clamor from radical left (including lib movement leaders) for gun control.

Vicious circle.

[pax]

I ask again, What's the point, guys?

You planning to take away women's right to vote? Or what? Is it just a gripe session?

As a person of the female persuasion, I have to say that I really don't see a lot of value in this discussion. "Aha! It's all their fault!" is not exactly the best way to go about winning friends and influencing people.

pax

A man of sense only trifles with them (women), plays with them, humours and flatters them, as he does with a sprightly and forward child; but he neither consults them about, nor trusts them with, serious matters. -- Philip Chesterfield

[WyldOne]

It is a rather divisive topic.....But you can't deny that people sit around and talk about this kinda thing anyway.

I find myself in complete agreement with Jim March. So instead of being redundant, I'll simply refer you back to his comments.

[Jim March]

To the ladies of TFL:

Somehow, this nation got itself into the current mess. And the mess is getting worse. It's very important to understand why.

Did anybody catch those studies of teenage girls in previously isolated cultures of the South Pacific? Basically, starting about the moment they got TeeVee they began doing weird unheathy diets, suffering from anorexia, bulemia or both, and self esteem went into the toilet.

So, ONE or more of the following is going on, and damned if I know which:

1) We're ALL being subjected to "mind control efforts", but for some reason it's causing young girls to visibly self-destruct at a greater rate.

2) The girls are actually being specifically targeted for reasons unknown, possibly to re-shape their future habits, and the stress of the programming causes some to go "haywire".

3) It's a good bet boys are also self-destructing in other ways, or the damage isn't as visible. At a guess, the violence rates are probably the "male expression of the same (or similar) problem(s)".

---------------

All:

Now, it would seem that "systematic cultural programming of females" has been going on for a VERY long time, both within the home and through educational/vocational opportunities (or lack thereof). Thousands of years, going back to when boys learned horses and swords, girls learned weaving and cooking.

Is it possible that whoever runs the mainstream media is trying to perpetuate that even though the educational and employment opportunities are being equalized? Since "control" in those areas is being lost, a substitution is being made - starting with crashing their self-esteem somewhere around puberty?

I don't know. I have my suspicions. Something is damned well going on.

And I do NOT like it. My idea of a ladyfriend involves smart and armed .

[Cain R]

Up here it was the murder of several female engineering students in Montreal that prompted the latest (C-68) gun control laws.

Most vocal womens group up here made the passage of the the latest gun laws a "womans" issue. EI, you were "anti-women, if you spoke out against bill C-68, with the national media's support the gun laws became a pro-female law as opposed to a anti-gun law.

The fact that a single armed women would have ended the "Montreal Massacre" before it started was lost on everbody up here.

[MeekAndMild]

The girls are actually being specifically targeted for reasons unknown

Teenaged girls have an enormous amount of collective discretionary income. Imagine 10 million girls who each spends just $100 per year on foo-foo. Now multiply that billion bucks by ten or fifty and then add the amount boyfriends and mamas spend and you get an idea of the megabucks involved.

The cosmetics, clothing and entertainment industries are hunting in a baited field.

[spacemanspiff]

pax, no offense was intended, and it took quite a bit of thought before i even posted this poll. the first couple of attempts i discarded, since i couldnt come up with a tactful way of asking the question.

the point of it is, to be able to help identify where we do put the blame on gun control. at first glance, it may appear like we are all chauvinistic pigs. and while i may still hold on to some rather sexist ideas, no woman can expect that the stereotypes and discriminatory beliefs men have held on to for thousands of years will disappear in less than one generation. its a difficult struggle to remain open minded and receptive when nearly all of my generations influences promote the idea that women are inferior.

you asked if the point would be to take away all that the womens lib movement has accomplished. thats like asking if only aryan-americans should be allowed to vote and hold positions of authority. the answer to both, is NO. our only hope should be that as time passes, society will stop brainwashing people into thinking that the two sexes are not equal.
had the sexes started the struggle for equality a thousand years ago, i think that gun control today would not even be an issue. women would be comfortable in positions of authority without power-tripping. their views on issues wouldnt have to be the exact opposite of their male counterparts, which is exactly what goes on among at least 75% of females in todays society.

the blame, when we men step away from our feed trough and take a look around, is all upon us men. we have created the imbalance, and we are directly and indirectly responsible for instituting this sexist world we live in.

[Kaylee]

Oh, I don't think it's a coincidence that both Prohibition and most gun control postdates women's suffrage. It's easier to demonize something you don't know. Most women don't know guns. Aside from the "my [gangbanger] baby got shot" sobstories from the newsies/talksies, that is. Sadly, this is increasingly the case for men as well.

That said.... I don't think limiting the vote based on sex is appropriate or helpful. Limiting the vote based on the ability to string a coherent English sentence, know the basics of American history, and understand the Constitution... now there I could stand behind you.


-K

PS -- no offense taken.

[tlhelmer]

If we are not free then no one will have rights!