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Old August 22, 2002, 10:10 AM   #1
Bongos
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Santa Fe Arms Garand???

I have an opputunity to purchase a Santa Fe Garand, The seller says The Santa Fe Company used old GI receivers, they scratch the old name off and inscribed their name on, so I don't think there is a way of finding out the original manufacturer. This Garand is unique in that it was converted to use M1A/M14 magazines. I am new to Garands and don't know if the asking price of $800 is too much or too little. Any and all information is appreciated. The condition is excellent, stock is very nice.
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Old August 22, 2002, 10:47 AM   #2
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Removing the manufacturers name and putting on a new one would be a violation of federal law. So I don’t think it has a GI receiver. Is it 30.06 or .308? If it’s 30.06 then it can’t use M1A/M14 mags. I would sugest you go to this site and ask this question. A lot of people here now Garands.
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/garand/garand.pl
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Old August 22, 2002, 11:26 AM   #3
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Go to this site and e-mail him www.garandm1rifle.com he knows more about the rifle then anyone I know. Probably about as much a J.Garand himself.
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Old August 22, 2002, 11:48 AM   #4
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Thanks guys, it's in 308. I've never heard of this company, Though the concept is interesting
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Old August 22, 2002, 12:19 PM   #5
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Bongos:

Stay as far away from that abomination as possible. One, scratching off the OEM name is a HUGE violation of the laws.

Two, IF modified to accept removeable mags, then the bottom of the receiver has been ground out, weakening the receiver. The M-1 loads from the top, using 8-round en-block clips.

Three, if the serial number was obliterated, ANOTHER HUGE violation of law. If the S/N is intact, then the OEM can be discovered. Consecutive blocks of numbers were assigned to the various manufacturers.

Just My Humble Opinion, but if rifle has been modified in the ways you list, someone is trying to sell you an ILLEGAL TURKEY. DO NOT BUY.

There are a few firms that make new receivers, then build up the rifle from parts kits. Lithgow from Australia, and Century Arms here in the US do that. A buddy bought one of those from a private individual who was having a "divorce/moving sale", and I looked it over before shooting it. Told him DO NOT FIRE...the barrel was a re-weld job....Checking out the markings showed it was pre-WW2 Springfield chamber, welded to a 1950's vintage LMR barrel. Buddy now has a $600 wall-hanger. Op-rod was a re-weld, too. His receiver was an H&R brand, again re-welded.

For some info on re-welds and such, I recommend a visit to the Fulton Armory website, and look in the M-1 Garand FAQ's section.

www.fultonarmory.com
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Old August 22, 2002, 03:51 PM   #6
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$800 is quite high for a legally-questionable likely POS. If you want a Garand, go to the CMP website and follow the instructions. You'll get a REAL M1, and it'll cost around $500. Best deal going, even if you have to join a club and shoot in a match.

George
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Old August 22, 2002, 06:04 PM   #7
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I don't recall off hand any Santa Fe M1 rifles, but they turned out a bunch of Model 1903A3 clones using surplus parts and cast receivers made, I believe, in Spain. AFAIK, there were no safety problems, but I saw a couple that were warped enough that the stock had to be rather crudely routed out to let the trigger guard fit after a fashion.

I suspect that the Santa Fe M1 is the same category and that it was not a GI receiver.

But I have seen several of those reworked rifles, mostly made up as "tanker Garands" or some other fancy name. Some are OK as long as they work, but getting any parts or repairs would be impossible. Santa Fe is long out of business.

I agree with the guys who suggest taking a pass and looking into CMP.

Jim
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Old August 22, 2002, 06:15 PM   #8
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Thanks guys, after all the posts, I will pass on this... I don't need any problematic rifle whether it's legality or mechanically
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Old August 22, 2002, 10:55 PM   #9
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I read someplace (probably here on TheFiringLine someplace) that Brazil issued Garands that had been built or retro-fitted to use detachable box magazines. I think they were chambered for .308. I'd never heard of these before, but it sounds like they were legitimate military rifles and probably worked okay. I don't know anything more about these Brazilian Garands, but they sound interesting. I wonder if this could be what you've been offered.

Doug
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Old August 22, 2002, 11:23 PM   #10
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The guy whom has it for sale knew the history behind it and it is as explained. The thought of just finding a M1A for $1000 is only $200 differences is actually a better choice. The only reason I gave it a second thought was that he likes to trade and it came with 2 mags... But since I don't know that much about it and it doesn't seems alot of people do, I'll just leave it alone

Thanks for the advice, I could have done wrong
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Old February 11, 2012, 08:57 PM   #11
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SANTA FE M1s

I was an employee of Pasadena Firearms (the manufacturing arm of Golden State Arms who used the Santa Fe trade name), from 1963 thru their demise in 1966/67. I worked as a gunsmith at the Fairoaks Avenue facility, and also doing service work and warranty repair at 386 West Green Street.

Pasadena Firearms made a significant number of M1s from scrap purchased (I believe) from the Great Lakes ordinance Depot. This was comprised of often new), but at least servicable garand receivers that had been torch cut in half thru the mag well. We sorted these, machined and welded the long ends together, added material and welded the short ends together. Then heat treated, machined back to final configuration, assembled with all new govt surplus parts, an sold as M1s. I believe that manuf stamping, and s/ns were left intact, and I don't recall any being ID'd as Santa Fe.

No way to saay for sure now, but I am sure these were made in the thousands
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Old February 11, 2012, 10:29 PM   #12
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BM 59’s were a mag fed M-1 type rifle made by the Italians. I’ve never heard of them being made in South America.

This thread is just another fine example of why buying from the CMP is a good idea.
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Old February 11, 2012, 10:39 PM   #13
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This made me think BM59 too. If it's a BM59 for $800, I wouldn't be able to pay fast enough.
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Old February 12, 2012, 12:01 PM   #14
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OLDGUNNY- By chance do you know if they combined 1903A3 bbl's and M1 chamber ends? My first Garand is a re-weld, and I thought it was a true rare gem when I found that it has a 2-groove bbl.

Very fine work on the receiver- have to look under magnification to see the differences in machine marks.

I don't shoot the rifle any more since all I hear is horror stories about re-welds- but it looks nice... sitting there... collecting dust... reminding me of how much I spent and how little research I did prior to making the purchase/swap.

But on the other hand- the thing shot great and reliably before I suspected that maybe I hadn't ought to be shooting it.
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Old February 12, 2012, 01:00 PM   #15
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Looks like Gunny confirmed my initial suspicion. Re-Weld. Stay away as there are far better options available.
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