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Old August 20, 2002, 07:23 AM   #1
Slater
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Remington 870P availability

Some gun stores sell this shotgun, others seem to think that it's for LEO use only and won't sell to non-LEO. Anyone run into this situation?
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Old August 20, 2002, 03:57 PM   #2
Al in Md.
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Slater, from what I can gather the official company line from Rem. is no civilian sales of police model shotguns. However most gunshops sell the police models to the public. Just find a gunshop that will do the deal and be done with it. Of course this would not include the short brl.(less than 18in.) versions without some B.A.T.F. involvement. Some of the online auctions and brokers could also fix you up. I am a non LEO and own three Rem Police models. Rem. policy also applies to mag extensions in most cases. I like their shotguns but do not like their politically correct policies. Al in Md.
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Old August 20, 2002, 04:17 PM   #3
Dave McC
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Slater, Rembrass is a touch too PC for my taste. The new keyed safety is egregious, the mag dimples are a shameless kowtowing to the Schumerphiles, and QC seems to be but a memory.

I suggest getting a police turnin 870 instead, and then letting Remington know why you picked a used shotgun over a new one...
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Old August 20, 2002, 07:44 PM   #4
Slater
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Thanks for the input. On the QC problems, does that relate to fit & finish, or just sloppy assembly of parts?
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Old August 21, 2002, 01:31 AM   #5
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Don't spend the extra money on a 870P. Here's why-

There is NO difference between the 870P and the 870HD (Home Defense) other than the P has plain walnut stocks and the HD has birch stocks. The P also has a slightly heavier sear spring and Good God!, who needs that.

When I gunsmithed foe Scattergun Technologies, we used to argue with customers who insisted that the P was a better made gun. I have been into enough to know that there is No difference. Remington puts Police on the side and charges you an extra $150. Spend the money on add ons like Ghost Ring sights and a mag extension.

The only problem is that the HDs are hard to find because Scattergun is buying all they can lay their hand on to build their riot guns.

Thanks,
Lee

http://www,thearmsroom.com
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Old May 24, 2004, 12:02 PM   #6
cps1
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Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the HD models come with a bluing finish only, while the police models can come parkerized if you so desire? Also I'm pretty sure the HD models have the stupid green key lock while the police unit does not. I don't know if the difference is worth 150 bucks, but I would hate to fumble around with that little green key when I was in need of some protection.
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Old May 24, 2004, 12:53 PM   #7
SanduneCC
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I was wondering about this choice myself, couldn't make up my mind, so I bought BOTH of them - at the same time!

The 870P is model 4910, 18" bead, 7-shot extension, synthetic stock.
The 870HD is equipped the same.

Differences in appearance: the 870P is parkerized, quite heavier, stock has sling swivel and so does barrel clamp. The 870HD is not parkerized but very handsome with its matt blue finish. There is no swivel on the barrel extension clamp. It also has the PC safety, which is not a big deal since I'll replace both of them with jumbo ones. The P has IMP CYL barrel and HD is only CYL.

How do they compare functionality wise? The 870HD wins with its slick action and trigger pull. The 870P seems a little more sluggish when racking and the action release is stiffer - which is real annoying. Trigger pull for the Police is 7 pounds whereas the HD is a sweet 4 pounder.
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Old May 24, 2004, 04:03 PM   #8
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Here's the truth about the Remington 870 Police guns.

Remington DOES sell to non-police.
An email to Remington will get a recommendation to go to a Remington Factory Authorized Dealer and he will order you a Police gun.

Here's where the confusion comes from:
FFL Dealers order from wholesalers, and when they want a Remington they order from a wholesaler who's a Factory Authorized Wholesaler.

The problem is, not ALL Remington Wholesalers are LAW ENFORCEMENT wholesalers. Only limited wholesalers are factory authorized LE wholesalers, so many regular factory wholesalers don't HAVE LE guns.

All FFL dealers have one or two wholesalers they do business with. When they need a gun, they call the wholesaler, he ships it out to the FFL, and they settle up at the end of the month.

The problem is, unless the local FFL happens to have an account with a LE wholesaler, he has to call around to find a LE wholesaler, go buy a money order, send them a signed copy of his FFL and the check, then hope the wholesaler still has the gun he needs in stock, since most wholesalers won't hold guns for non-account FFLs.

Since this is too much trouble for many FFLs, some of them just tell people that Remington won't sell to them. Other's have bought into the non-civilian sales story, and don't even bother to find out if it's true.

Again, Remington DOES sell 870 Police guns to civilians, and all you have to do is find a FFL that either does business with a Remington LE wholesaler, or one who'll special order for you.

Remington has announced that they are DISCONTINUING the lock-able safety on all Remington guns.
People complained, and Remington listened, so you can now buy an 870 Express with a standard safety, but many lock-equipped guns are still in the pipeline.

The differences between the 870 Express HD and the 870P Police:
The Express has:
A rougher blue finish.
A rougher, less polished and de-burred interior and exterior.
A plastic trigger guard assembly.
The plastic magazine retention assembly with the "dimples".
A hardwood, or plastic stock, no choices on other stock types like Speedfeed, etc.
A Sporting type, long fore end. (No side saddle unless you change the fore end or cut it off).
A two piece barrel with a rougher bore in Open Cylinder.
No sling swivel studs.
A Sporting trigger/sear spring.
Bead sight only.

The 870P Police has.
A military-grade parkerized finish. (Remington says it's 60% more durable than standard bluing).
A much smoother, polished and de-burred interior and exterior.
An aluminum trigger guard assembly.
The older style magazine assembly without the "dimples".
A walnut or synthetic stock.
A Police-type shorter fore end. This allows 5 and 6 shot side saddles to be mounted.
A one piece barrel with a very smooth bore in Improved Cylinder.
Sling swivel studs.
A heavy-duty magazine spring.
A heavy duty trigger/sear spring.
Choices on different sights. (Rifle, ghost ring, Tritium, etc).
Choices on other stock types.

Apparently, Remington has dropped the HD "Home Defense" name and now just lists it as an Express with an 18" barrel.
There IS an uncatalogued Express 18" model with a factory magazine extension installed.
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Old May 25, 2004, 05:50 PM   #9
Sawdust
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Quote:
There IS an uncatalogued Express 18" model with a factory magazine extension installed.
I believe that is known as the 5077 (and you're right, you won't find it listed;I believe it was a special build for a big distributor...Davidson?)

Question:

Why do people find the lockable safety so distasteful? I just don't lock mine...I must be ignorant...no surprise there...

Seriously...why would I replace it?

Thanks,

Sawdust

(edited to reflect correct quote)
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Old May 25, 2004, 09:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
two piece barrel
?
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Old May 25, 2004, 10:00 PM   #11
Dfariswheel
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A factory rep says the Express barrel is actually two pieces.

The barrel section, and a separate piece that forms the extension with the locking recess.

This is cheaper to make than the one-piece Wingmaster and Police models.

If you consider the barrel support ring, the Express barrels are actually THREE pieces, and the WM and Police are two.
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Old May 28, 2004, 03:08 AM   #12
C_Yeager
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Quote:
I believe that is known as the 5077 (and you're right, you won't find it listed;I believe it was a special build for a big distributor...Davidson?)
Not sure which distributer gets it. But, they pop up in "Big 5" (sporting goods chain) all the time.
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Old May 29, 2004, 01:37 PM   #13
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Well my 870HD did not come with dimples in the mag tube.It came and does come with a factory extension.I don't know about how many barrel parts,it has a barrel with a ring on it and would consider it as durable as the Police model minus the finish.The PC safety is cheap and easy enough to change.The reason people didn't like it was supposdely you can turn the safety without the key.There was a concern of a slight chance of it accidently engaging at a bad moment.As far as the "plastic" trigger housing,in some respects may be more durable.Synthetics have "give" in them,aluminum can crack,corrode, etc.A steel housing can bend or be crushed rendering the gun unfireable.We have gun frames made of plastics like the Glock,I do not find a plastic trigger housing an issue,maybe in cost but certainly not durability.
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Old June 27, 2004, 01:01 PM   #14
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I have the #25077 model 870 from Davidson's (HD, Security, or whatever they're calling it), based on an Express Magnum receiver with the factory mag tube extension and 18" plain cylinder-bore barrel. I've put a few hundred shells through it so far -- about half & half field loads and buckshot -- so far, so good.
I'll echo Springfield in that mine did not have the mag tube dimples. I've been totally satisfied with this little shotgun -- hell of a deal for $320/new.
I did replace the synthetic furniture with a Police model walnut set I picked up off of Ebay (I just prefer the look and feel of wood, myself).
Having grown up with Remingtons all of my life, the first thing I did notice was the J-hook safety and plastic trigger assembly. Not real sure what to think about this, it'll most likely not become an issue though I still intend to replace the safety with the Vang Comp model. Another difference is the MIM extractor that comes stock on the the Express models versus the forged extractors on the Police.
I haven't seen anything as of yet with this sg to lead me to believe that Remington's QA/QC has gone downhill; after having put it through the paces it would have most likely shown some signs or symtoms by now. IMO, it's definately a quality sg completely serviceable outta the box as is. With that said, I'm picky as hell about my guns and will simply change that safety and extractor for my own peace of mind (about $24 total).
Also, fwiw, you can order Police models, both 870s and 11-87s, from Hoplite in the Shotgun News.

*ETA* Link for #25077 870-HD

NOTE: The pic doesn't show mag tube extension, however, is listed as 6+1 capacity.
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Old July 1, 2004, 07:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
I haven't seen anything as of yet with this sg to lead me to believe that Remington's QA/QC has gone downhill;
I purchased a Rem 870 Police about two and a half years ago. With fewer than 50 shells through it, the ejector spring came loose and had to be restaked. The mag tube was scratched from the factory. The crown looks like someone took a hacksaw and a file to it. It's all been fixed and works fine but I'm not impressed with what Remington allows to leave the factory. My ten-plus year old express model had none of those problems out of the box.

PS
The police model came from the factory blued and with plain, uncheckered beechwood stock and forend.
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