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Old August 12, 2002, 01:53 AM   #1
RR
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Do You Have Any Drugs or Weapons in the Car?

Traffic stop. You are asked-"Do you have any drugs or weapons?" You have a cased and unloaded firearm in the trunk-in full complience with the law. How do you answer? If you answer "yes," you will be asked what and where. Then you will be asked to give the keys and the trunk will be opened. But first you will be "secured," possibly in handcuffs sitting on the curb. The firearm will be taken out and laid on the hood of the squad and the serial number recorded and called in. ALL of this in public view, your friends, your neighbors, your co-workers, whoever is driving by will witness this display.

THIS IS DEPARTMENTAL PROCEDURE. THE OFFICER IS REQUIRED TO DO ALL OF THE ABOVE-EACH AND EVERY TIME.

Do you lie and answer no? If caught in the lie-criminal obstructing.

Or do you answer "I have nothing illegal in the vehicle... and I will not answer any further questions-arrest me, cite me, or allow me to leave." Now, you are not being cooperative are you?

How do you answer the question?

To those who say "tell the little lie," what do you do if your 10 year old son/daughter is in the car, and the child knows you have the firearm in the trunk? Do you lie to a police officer in front of your child?

Last edited by RR; August 12, 2002 at 02:22 AM.
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Old August 12, 2002, 02:42 AM   #2
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double tap .. silly software .....
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Old August 12, 2002, 02:43 AM   #3
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Hmmmm ....

First off, you sound a bit "rambunctuous." (however one would correctly spell that word - especially this late )

Everywhere I've lived, if an LEO asked me these questions, I'd say, "Yup, a key in the back, but Dude .... " & we'll just split the profits - likely he'll help with the distribution. Hey! I wuz gonna sell it anyway ....

Sure, the cops'll ask you The Questions - never known it TO BE DEPARTMENTAL POLICY, per se, but so what?

Tell 'em if you have firearms (if you feel like it) & too, that you do not give permission to search (that 4th Amendment thing).

Frankly, what you have in your car is none of their business.

They wanna go fishing? Make 'em get a warrant.

Still, Sounds like you had a "bad stop" & are venting a bit. We need more info to walk this one through.

Care to share?
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Old August 12, 2002, 03:12 AM   #4
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"Still, Sounds like you had a "bad stop" & are venting a bit. We need more info to walk this one through."

No, I am not venting, and no I did not have a bad stop. Yes, it is departmental policy within many departments (non CCW States) that if you encounter a firearm during a traffic stop to run the serial number. Yes it is becoming routine to ask the question "Do you have any drugs or weapons..." followed by "then you don't mind if I look in your vehicle." The number of arrests (and convictions) that began with this simple procedure is very large, and this procedure has been upheld in the Courts.

And if you say I got a gun in the trunk and you refuse to open the trunk, your keys will be taken from you and the trunk will be opened, without a warrant. Will you later have a legal challenge to the search of the trunk-who cares, you will not be arrested because the search will not turn up any illegal activity.

Responses such as "I never heard of this happening" or "You are venting" or You must have had a "bad stop," ignore the issue. If you believe that this scenario is unusual or extreme, you are living in a fantasy world.

So how do you answer the question, without lying, without wanting to seem uncooperative, without wanting to endure the result of telling the truth?
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Old August 12, 2002, 03:22 AM   #5
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Lookit. I'm on "your side," OK?

Just seems something happened that you're trying to "get off your chest," is all. I'd bet you had "a stop" & had somewhat of "an adventure" by the tone of your post. Maybe not & no matter & no offense intended - merely trying to draw out the thread a bit ....

Beats me what your state laws are, but for a mere traffic stop, I'd just tell the LEO nothing at all. Hand him/her "your papers," keep your hands in plain view & don't converse with 'em at all.

They wanna fish, they need a license. That's called The 4th.

Void where prohibited.
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Old August 12, 2002, 03:33 AM   #6
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"Just seems something happened that you're trying to "get off your chest," is all. I'd bet you had "a stop" & had somewhat of "an adventure" by the tone of your post."

Again, no I have not had such "a stop."

I assume from your post that you simply would not answer the question. Ok, the officer asks you again, and again-"Do you have any drugs or weapons in the vehicle?" Ok, one way to handle it is to simply refuse to respond. One result of the refusal to respond, and it does happen, is for the officer to detain you until the canine unit arrives. Why? The canine will then be walked around your vehicle, and if the canine "hits," i.e., paws at any portion of your vehicle-they now have probable cause to search your vehicle without a warrant.

But then your 10 year old asks you "Dad why didn't you answer the police officer's question?

I don't know the answer to this dilemma-that is the reason for this post.
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Old August 12, 2002, 03:50 AM   #7
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Traffic stop. You are asked-"Do you have any drugs or weapons?" You have a cased and unloaded firearm in the trunk-in full complience with the law. How do you answer? If you answer "yes," you will be asked what and where. Then you will be asked to give the keys and the trunk will be opened. But first you will be "secured," possibly in handcuffs sitting on the curb. The firearm will be taken out and laid on the hood of the squad and the serial number recorded and called in. ALL of this in public view, your friends, your neighbors, your co-workers, whoever is driving by will witness this display.

THIS IS DEPARTMENTAL PROCEDURE. THE OFFICER IS REQUIRED TO DO ALL OF THE ABOVE-EACH AND EVERY TIME.


I do not know of ANY department where "the officer is required to do all of the above-each and every time".

To answer your questions" Answer no, finish your traffic stop and be on your way.
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Old August 12, 2002, 04:00 AM   #8
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Yup, cops will ask you if you have weapons or drugs - last time I was stopped, the Statie asked me just these same questions.

I really did have to tell him that I was in possession of a "concealed handgun" due to the conditions of my CCW permit.
(had about a dozen various "shooters" at the time ... )

Other than that - if I didn't have said permit - I could've told him basically "none of your business." I wouldn't recommend saying it that way, but make up your own polite way of saying "nope - none of your business." "Pound sand" isn't a great reply to endear said officer's friendliness .....

Depending on your state laws, you can (still) merely not answer & stand on your 4th amendment "privs." You don't have to answer any questions at all. They cannot just start a rummaging of your vehicle.

Far as a canine unit pawing about & hittig on anything - well, there's training & there's training .... can't argue. Dogs hit on what they're trained (or prompted) to hit on.

You might want to "talk" to your children & explain some things that are right, & maybe more importantly, those that aren't. May save some explanations down the road.

A detention & subsequent dog search through your personal belongings while your kids watch may be (as detesible as it may be) may be a real good real world eye-opener for your children.

I won't condone it - far from it - but if they will grow up in our "brave new world," best they get a bird's eye view of what it'll be like.

Nothing like education on the fly .... :barf:
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Old August 12, 2002, 04:07 AM   #9
RR
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"I do not know of ANY department where "the officer is required to do all of the above-each and every time".

Yup, each time a handgun is encountered during a traffic stop, even if it be legally cased and unloaded. You run the serial number.

One opinion-don't respond.
Second opinion-lie.

Thanks for the responses. Say "no" and then explain to your kid what happened-an education. Maybe that is the best we can do (but with my luck my kids would pipe up and say, "but dad....what about the pistol in the trunk...." in front of the officer!)
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Old August 12, 2002, 04:08 AM   #10
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mrat,

I agree, but there's something more to this than just the "random bitch."

Something happened here that we're not getting.

May be not - just a gut feeling .....
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Old August 12, 2002, 04:54 AM   #11
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"Something happened here that we're not getting"


labgrade, ok I confess, I was stopped by a pair of female officers, who asked if I had any drugs or weapons. I said yes and opened the trunk. The sight of the Burns custom 1911 drove them into a sexual frenzy whereby they then repeatedly sexually assaulted me. Apparently, the assault was recorded on the squad video, and now copies are for sale on ebay. There, you got it out of me.
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Old August 12, 2002, 05:16 AM   #12
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Leather Babe-Cops across the hood = Cool. How much the copy?



You start mentioning all kinds of "abuses" & don't have anything to back it up with. Your kids have to watch, you get scanned by dogs, you're searched, et al ...

Did something happen or didn't it?

We're tying real hard to take this seriously, but you just keep coming back with, uh ... hypotheticals.

I don't doubt this stuff goes on. I'm just wondering where's the beef?

You just asking along the lines of a "what if?" ... or ?
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Old August 12, 2002, 05:16 AM   #13
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I would answer yes, I do, cased per law, thank you...can I go now?
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Old August 12, 2002, 05:20 AM   #14
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In that case, what state is it? I'm planning my vacation.
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Old August 12, 2002, 05:30 AM   #15
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labgrade What's the beef (or where's the beef). Never said there was one. How can something that is perfectly legal be "abuse"?

It wasn't that bad (except I got a little worried when the tall one reached for her baton while moaning something in German. )


If you got kids, and you teach them to use firearms, do we now have to teach them the "legal" ramifications of a traffic stop while transporting the firearms.

You want an example. Here is one. Same scenario, however when the officer opened the trunk and couldn't find a serial number on a muzzleloader, the officer became very upset and accused the individual of filing it off. Guy spend over an hour handcuffed in the squad before the Sgt finally got back to the officer and told him that it ain't got no serial number.

How about this one. Took the Ruger 10/22 out of case which was in the trunk and required him to pick it up at the department. Upon arrival refused to release it without a copy of the bill of sale or a court order. Guy lost it-the rifle was a gift from his first wife 10 years ago. Cost him more than the rifle was worth to pay for the attorney to get the order.

How about this. Seized the Officer's model 45 and the case from the trunk-"can pick it up at the station." Took him four trips (had to take off work) to filing get it back. Why-"we had to check it out."

Like dogs. Large motel by the airport. The police routinely bring the canine unit to the motel parking lot, have the dog sniff the cars, and any cars that are subsequently pawed, the owners are found and the vehicles are searched without a warrant. Source-newspaper.

Naw, I am making this all up. This stuff never happens.

Last edited by RR; August 12, 2002 at 05:53 AM.
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Old August 12, 2002, 08:11 AM   #16
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I live in Georgia. Get stopped right often for I've a heavy foot. I've had speeding stops in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. I've never been asked if I had a firearm in the car. I've never had an officer ask to look in the trunk.

Dropped my wallet once and as I bent over to pick it up, the trooper saw the 1911 on my belt. Asked me if I had a CCW, I said yes. He didn't ask to see it. We talked guns for awhile, then we talked ammo for awhile. Then he told me to stop driving so fast and away we went.

I tend to stay away from the states that mandate that unloaded in a locked case in the trunk baloney.
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Old August 12, 2002, 08:40 AM   #17
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Tell the cop no. If he asks again tell him to go rent a judge if he's that curious.

It's not my job to be cooperative. It's the cops job to get done what he feels he has to and get out of my hair. If your kid asks why tell him that cops are only your friend if you call [/i]them[/i]...and sometimes not even then.
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Old August 12, 2002, 08:43 AM   #18
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Well, my father in law is a case in point... Answered truthfully when stopped in IL for speeding (45 in a 30) and the cop arrested him (he being from IN and all.) Charges were DROPPED the next day (he had to spend the night in jail) and he picked up his gun several days later (from the same cop that arrested him.)

Me, I've been stopped twice here in Indiana, neither time did the cop ask about drugs or weapons in the car.

My answer would depend on the situation. In Indiana, I would answer in the affirmative if asked, since I do carry and usually have a gun on me or in the car. If it's in the car it's either in a butt back in the back seat, or in the glove box (in which case forewarning the cop is the correct action since that's where the registration is.)

If outside of Indiana, I would probably state, "I have nothing illegal in the vehicle," since we usually carry a gun in the trunk if traveling, so we have some protection in hotel rooms.
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Old August 12, 2002, 08:50 AM   #19
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"No drugs. Legally owned and transported weapons." might be an ok answer for Tennessee. I'd rather not go to places where that answer wouldn't be ok. That said, I'd been pulled over twice in Minnesota and never got such a question...maybe I didn't look threatening enough.
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Old August 12, 2002, 09:15 AM   #20
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The one time I've had that question asked of me, it was, "do you have any illegal drugs or weapons in the car?" I said no, because the cased and unloaded .22 rifle I had in the back was not an illegal weapon.

Regards,
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Old August 12, 2002, 11:14 AM   #21
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I've practiced saying... "There is nothing illegal in this vehicle, and there is nothing being transported in an illegal fashion in this vehicle."

I figure right after that, the guy will go ahead and search. That's what my tape recorder is for. I also plan on requesting that he call his supervisor before he starts in with opening stuff up...

FWIW, since I live in St. Louis City, I have a habit of locking all firearms in their cases (city ordnance) for transport. I suspect that this is more than most areas require.
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Old August 12, 2002, 11:17 AM   #22
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"I was stopped by a pair of female officers, who asked if I had any drugs or weapons. I said
yes and opened the trunk. The sight of the Burns custom 1911 drove them into a sexual frenzy whereby they then
repeatedly sexually assaulted me. Apparently, the assault was recorded on the squad video, and now copies are
for sale on ebay."

I knew if I stuck with it long enough that this thread would eventually get interesting...
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Old August 12, 2002, 11:17 AM   #23
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"Do you have any drugs or weapons in the car?"

"Whaddaya need?"
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Old August 12, 2002, 11:20 AM   #24
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Anyway, how I answer...

I was stopped some years ago for speeding when I was in college.

I was asked these questions.

"Yes, I have prescription antibiotics and my .22 target rifle in the trunk."

The officer never asked to see either object, issued me a written warning (I wasn't going that fast) and sent me on my way.

Two other times I have been stopped (once in DC, by a metro officers, once on I-70 in Pennsylvania by a state trooper).

Neither of those times was I asked those questions.
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Old August 12, 2002, 11:40 AM   #25
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thats funny....out of the thousands of firearm owners that frequent this forum, many of which have had interactions with local law enforcement, i don't recall any of them getting hassled that much over lawfully transporting legally owned firearms, concealed on their person or stored elsewhere in the vehicle.

while i don't agree with the searches of vehicles without a warrant, i think that at the very least, the officer should be required to inform you why he feels he/she has probable cause to initate a search.
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