The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 9, 2002, 03:21 PM   #1
nsf003
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 574
My 9mm loads suck

I reloaded 100 rounds of 9mm and 100 rounds of 38 SP. I shot them both with my dad. We hit the target almost every time with the 38s but couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from inside with the 9mms. Is there something special you must do when loading automatic pistol rounds? How do I get accuracy?

nsf
__________________
Christian, American, Heterosexual, Pro-gun Conservative. Any Questions?

Molon Labe!
Lets Roll!
nsf003 is offline  
Old August 9, 2002, 04:02 PM   #2
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,245
Well, you're going to have to provide a little more information...

What bullet?

What case?

What gun?

What powder?

Are you crimping the cases? Roll or taper?
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 9, 2002, 04:11 PM   #3
blades67
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 1999
Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA
Posts: 6,014
We also need to know...

Did you use a progressive machine? Manual or automatic indexing?

How much powder was loaded?

Was each charge weighed?

What was the OAL?

Which primer was used and how were they seated?
__________________
Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

I hunt, therefore I am.
blades67 is offline  
Old August 9, 2002, 04:14 PM   #4
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 14,550
... and how did you determine that it was the 9mm load that was inaccurate and not the pistol or shooter?
Mal H is offline  
Old August 9, 2002, 11:06 PM   #5
nsf003
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 574
Bullet = 115 gr HP

Case = already fired by me Winchester or PMC brass

Gun = Ruger P94

Powder = Bullseye

Crimp = taper, had some problems with it. Need help here too.

I have a single stage machine. I loaded something like 4.5 grains of powder. Using one of those powder measurer things, I did not weigh each charge, only weighed one out of every 10 charges for uniformity and safety reasons. I checked for double charges. I have no clue what an OAL is. I think the primer was Small pistol 100 or the like. Correct me if I am wrong, probably am.

Quote:
... and how did you determine that it was the 9mm load that was inaccurate and not the pistol or shooter?
We tried a box of factory FMJ afterwards and we hit the box 9 out of 10 times.

nsf
__________________
Christian, American, Heterosexual, Pro-gun Conservative. Any Questions?

Molon Labe!
Lets Roll!
nsf003 is offline  
Old August 10, 2002, 12:12 PM   #6
stans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2001
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 838
nsf003, please do not take offense to what I am about to say, but it sounds like you have little experience with reloading. If you have not already purchased and read at least one reloading manual, I suggest you do so immediately. The 9mm can be very finiky and dangerous to reload. OAL (cartridge OverAll Length) is critical in the 9mm since it operates at high pressure. Seating bullets too deeply will result in excessive pressure and can lead to damage to or destruction of the gun and injury to the shooter and by-standers.
stans is offline  
Old August 10, 2002, 12:22 PM   #7
cheygriz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2002
Location: high up in the rockies
Posts: 2,232
stans hit the nail on the head! Buy a copy of the Lyman reloading manual, and a copy of either Speer, Hornady, or Hodgdon reloading manuals. In my experience, the Lyman is the best manual for a new reloader.

9MM is an easy cartridge to reload, but like any other, it has its' own little quirks which you must learn.

Also, if you have a good friend who is an EXPERIENCED reloader, have him/her get together with you for an evening of reloading and learn a few little tricks that aren't in the book.

BTW.... Weighing every tenth charge is adequate. There is no reason whatsoever to weigh every charge.

ALSO!!!!!! If you son't have one already, get a LEE Factory Crimp Die fore your 9MM. I use the LEE FCD for all ammo used in m,y semi-autos.
__________________
If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.
cheygriz is offline  
Old August 10, 2002, 12:50 PM   #8
nsf003
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 574
You're right, I am inexperienced.

I own a copy of the RCBS reloading manual and use it as a guide for my reloads.

I have no friends that are experienced with reloading.

nsf
__________________
Christian, American, Heterosexual, Pro-gun Conservative. Any Questions?

Molon Labe!
Lets Roll!
nsf003 is offline  
Old August 10, 2002, 02:02 PM   #9
C.R.Sam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 29, 1999
Location: Dewey, AZ
Posts: 12,859
Second the motion to add a Lyman Reloading Manual to your library. Read the whole thing through....then keep it for reference and for second sourcing all data.

When dealing with things that can bite. Good idea to second source all data. The best of books have typos, mistakes and editing errors. Rare, but it happens.

Sam
C.R.Sam is offline  
Old August 10, 2002, 02:19 PM   #10
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 14,550
nsf003 - Nothing at all to be embarassed about. There's one thing I can absolutely guarantee without fear of any rebuttal whatsoever is that every single one of us here were inexperienced at one time. And we didn't have anything like TFL to go to to ask questions. So our learning curve was a lot shallower than yours will be. So I envy you in that respect.

I'll third the motion to buy a second reloading manual and the Lyman one mentioned is first rate in the info it has jammed into it.

The OAL is the first thing you should study up on since, as stans said, it is the one thing (other than powder type and amount) that can get you in trouble if you don't pay attention to it especially in high pressure handgun calibers like the 9mm.
Mal H is offline  
Old August 10, 2002, 03:20 PM   #11
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,245
NSF,

Where at in South Central PA?

That's my stomping grounds.

One of these days if you want to schedule some "reloading time" I'd be more than happy to observe, point out where you might be going wrong, etc.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 10, 2002, 03:22 PM   #12
Chuck McDonald
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2002
Location: Tejas
Posts: 179
9 mm

When you get the Lyman manual a good starting point for 9mm is the accuracy load. Lyman marks the load they have found to be most accurate. Unless it is the max load (then work up to it carefully) it usually gives good results.

Also, do your self a favor...buy a set of Calipers... it is very important to know your OAL is correct... particularly with small capacity cartridges.

FWIW

Chuck
__________________
Fear God and Dreadnought
Chuck McDonald is offline  
Old August 10, 2002, 05:28 PM   #13
nsf003
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2002
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 574
Thanks for the advice

Good advice, thanks a lot. Does anyone know of where I could get a catalog of reloading supplies such as primers, bullets, and brass?

nsf
__________________
Christian, American, Heterosexual, Pro-gun Conservative. Any Questions?

Molon Labe!
Lets Roll!

Last edited by nsf003; August 10, 2002 at 06:56 PM.
nsf003 is offline  
Old August 11, 2002, 07:18 AM   #14
ACP230
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2000
Posts: 708
Check out Midway, Wideners, Natchez, and Midsouth Shooter's Supply Company. They all have web sites so just type the names into a search engine. I've used Midway and Midsouth the most for reloading stuff.

Buy a copy of Shotgun News or The Gun List. There are lots of dealers in powder, primers and bullets advertising in both. One of the chain bookstores in my area carries the above rags.

I use the Hornady reloading manual, backed up by the Lee manual, a pile of handouts from manufacturers. HTH.
__________________
"To disarm the people (is) the best & most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason.
ACP230 is offline  
Old August 11, 2002, 11:36 AM   #15
stans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2001
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 838
nsf003, we all started somewhere. I agree with the recommendation that you get the Lyman manual. This was my first manual, read it all the way through. Now I have a bunch of manuals, but I always check the Lyman manual when developing loads. When in doubt, ask questions, answers will come. No one wants to see you get hurt, so be safe, take your time, enjoy reloading and enjoy shooting.
stans is offline  
Old August 12, 2002, 09:54 AM   #16
Mikul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2000
Posts: 1,396
The only time I had problems with 9mm shooting minute of barn was when I used plated rounds in my H&K. That gun just won't shoot anything but real jacketed bullets.

Another thing that could be doing it is your crimp. If your crimp is too heavy, you could be tearing into the jacket which can cause it to start falling apart as the bullet goes down the barrel. I kept cranking my seating die down and pulling the pullet each time. When the crimp dented the bullet, I backed off and left it there and everything works fine.
__________________
There are two types of men: those with guns, and those at their mercy.
Mikul is offline  
Old August 12, 2002, 08:58 PM   #17
WESHOOT2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,270
SOME STUFF YOU NEED TO KNOW

OAL.
Exact powder charge.
Desired performance.

Sounds like you want an accurate load.
So do this: get a dial caliper (available from Midway about $25); get a pound of Vihtavuori Oy 3N37 or OR Hodgdon HS6; use their websites to gather data; buy some Hornady XTP's or Speer Gold Dot's; finish using the LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die; use one brand of cases for your testing (yes, even if you have to separate them by hand); test your ammo using multiple shooters.

I'll bet you find an accurate load.

If not, e-mail me direct.
__________________
.
"all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"
WESHOOT2 is offline  
Old August 13, 2002, 09:37 AM   #18
HankB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2000
Location: Central Texas, outside of Austin
Posts: 1,694
nsf003 - in addition to agreeing with the excellent advice you've already gotten, I suggest starting a notebook to record details of everything you load. That way, you'll have something to go back to if things do - or don't! - work out so well, and with experience, you'll soon start to see where the problems are.

As far as your current trouble, I'd guess that either the bullet or the crimp are the culprits if you're getting really horrendous accuracy.
__________________
To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself - Sun Tzu
HankB is offline  
Old August 13, 2002, 10:13 AM   #19
sleeping dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2000
Location: MI
Posts: 536
HankB, what kind of details are useful in a notebook? What kind of guidance does it provide?

Obviously, type & amount of powder, brand & weight of bullet, but what else?

Thanks.
sleeping dog is offline  
Old August 13, 2002, 10:26 AM   #20
Hemicuda
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,757
in that notebook goes the date, time, and whatnot, Caliber, type of case, any prepwork ON the case (trimmed or not) powder type, size of charge, bullet type, primer type, primer manufacturer, bullet manufacturer, powder manufacturer, measured OAL, any other pertinent info, AND # of rounds loaded...

for TOTAL EXTREME accuracy, I have seen weather conditions (humidity et al) recorded there too...

then, you can go back, look at what you did, and systematically change 1 thing at a time, and see what works and what doesn't...
__________________
Hemi.

gun and car collector.
Rare cars, and rarer guns.
Hemicuda is offline  
Old August 13, 2002, 11:51 AM   #21
HankB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2000
Location: Central Texas, outside of Austin
Posts: 1,694
Quote:
HankB, what kind of details are useful in a notebook?
Hemicuda pretty much summed it up. When I'm developing a new load, I also include chronograph data, group size, measurement of the pressure ring, and any observations about things like sticky extraction or leaking gas around the primer pocket. (Ummm . . . these last may be indications that you've got a serious pressure problem, and you'd better back off and re-evaluate what's going on.)

For loads I've already worked up and standardized on, I just record component type, powder charge, OAL, and date loaded.
__________________
To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself - Sun Tzu
HankB is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13007 seconds with 7 queries