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Old July 15, 2002, 05:19 AM   #1
Al Thompson
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Baseline data........

Hi folks,

This post is designed to give us a "floating" repository of shotgun and ammunition performance. The intent is that we have data available for members to browse.

The criteria is pretty straight forward. Your shotgun by model, choke, load, distance, pattern.

I thought hard about this, as both Erick and myself strongly suggest that you pattern your gun and load. What we don't want is for someone to assume that their performance will match, you have to test it. That being said, this posting should give folks a baseline for purchases and decisions.

Al Thompson aka Gizmo99
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Old July 15, 2002, 05:46 AM   #2
Al Thompson
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7/14/02, patterned two 12 ga 870s from one to 15 yards. One 870 is a 20 inch police trade-in with a cylinder choke, second is a 28 inch Express with a modified Remchoke. Load from 1 to 5 yards was Remington's Heavy Field, 1 1/4 ozs #8s, started patterning Federal Tactical OO and Remington OO Magnum 12 pellet at five yards to 15.

Intent - wanted to see what the close range performance of my HDSG really is. Confirm or deny the old "one inch of spread per yard" shiboleth. Look at Federal Tactical OO buck for performance.

Results - range in yards, spread from the center of the furthest hole to furthest hole in inches.

................20 inch Cyl...........28 inch Mod
1 y...........1.5.......................1.25
2 y...........3.3.......................2.5
3 y............5.5......................3.5
4 y............7.........................4
5 y.............9.........................5.5
.
Buckshot
.
5 y.............3.25....................2.75...............Federal Tactical
.
10 y.............5.25..................6.25...............Federal
.
10 y.............10.....................7....................Remington
.
15 y..............9.5...................7.5..................Federal
.
15 y..............16....................10.25..............Remington

Notes - the Federal kicked less and patterned well. I have a True-Glo sight on the 20 inch and had a much faster acquisition time. No slippage, looks like a good product. Past ten yards, the modified choke really starts to perform.

Next test will start at 15 yards and stretch to 50.
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Last edited by Al Thompson; August 12, 2002 at 04:56 PM.
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Old July 15, 2002, 06:09 AM   #3
Dave McC
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Ugh, Kemosabe, great idea! Here's some data on my 870s.

#1, my oldest, the HD shotgun.No choke,long cone, 18" bbl. A large aperture peep, good trigger.

Winchester standard 00, 20-24" at 25 yards.

Estate "SWAT" R/R 00, 16-20" at 25 yards.

Slugs:

Rottweil Brenneke, 2 1/2" at 50 yards.

KO Brenneke, same as above at 50 and less than 5" at 100 yards. Current deer load.

Winchester 1 oz HP slug, 2 1/2" at 50 yards.

Groups and patterns measured edge to edge.

#2, the 870 TB. 30" Extra Full (.038") bbl. Shot with reload of 1 oz 8 1/2s at 1150 FPS, a tight patterning load. Alternate,same but with 7 1/2s for handicap.

At 32 yards(Max I can pattern at), almost all pellets in 24-26".
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Old July 16, 2002, 12:37 PM   #4
labgrade
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I'll play ....

Using PMC's Brenneke slug (12 ga, 1 oz at 1600 fps) through a Rem 870 iron-sighted imp cyl 20" bbl. Set at 4" high at 25 yards (may change that down to 2") prints same-same at 50 - seems all but dead-on at 100 yards (no 75 yard tests).

Clover-leaf 3-shot groups at 25 & about 1" separation at 50. 6-7" groups at 100 yards, but that is my fading eyesight - suspect easily 1/2 that with a scope or younger eyes. Right on the money for elevation though = no +/- ... looks to have a mid range trajectory of 4-5" ("totally flat" through 50 yards) & back on at 100 yards. Actually pretty amazing, all told, for (an assumed ) BC of about .005

Tried the same load through an Express Turkey (21" bbl, double beads, mod choke) & was about twice the groupngs. Don't know if the choke messed with the groups or if the sight system just didn't allow the same precision as did the iron sights. Hardly matters as this latter shooter's fairly standard with the mod choke & just wanted to see what it would do "as is." "Good enough to 50" is what I've decided, & plenty good enough to "keep their heads down" at a bit better than that (though wouldn't risk it for shooting game).

Waiting for a case of the PMC Brenneke 20 ga slugs to do some patterning with that ... seems long on arrival through local sources ... Expect similar results as with the 12s.

Only others I've patterned extensively is for turkeys & all through that 21" 12 & with Rem's extra full turkey choke, except for a few off-the-shelf Winchester 20 ga stuff (max dram, 1-1/4 oz loads in 4s & 2s/screw-in full chokes ... looking for a suitable-enough turkey load ... "good enough" through 30 yards & probablly an absolute hammer on pheasants, etc.)

Rem's Duplex were disappointing. For one, I could never discover what mix of the shot (= how many #2s versus the #4s , etc.) - besides them not patterning worth a darn.

Fed's Premium line of 2 oz of #4 patterned (at a measured 40 yards & on a life-size turkey body) wonderfully - averaged at a 27 conservative lethal head/neck hits per shot. Winchester's 1-7/8 oz #4s (25-count box loads) came in just under .... nothing to sneeze at for turkeys & come to think of it, one hell of a "close-in" defensive loading - ~200-270 #4 pellets in a 40 yard 30" circle .....
(Rem's extra ful turkey choke, if not mentioned)

Still have a coupla boxes of Active Penetrator 2-1/4 ox #4s that I've yet to touch off ... can't imagine they'd be a "bad load."

Fed's Premium 12 ga 3" mag #4 buck (41 .22 cal pellets at about 1200-1500 fps) in a modified 21" gives a nice coverage pattern about 2+ foot at 25 yards. Let that one sink in a bit ... (an estimated 20+ ~10/22-hit per inch over a 30" circle every time you pull the trigger .... ) ..... a tad expensive though & recoil's on the "up-side." But, how many ya gonna use?

Winchester's got some 25-per box 27-count #4 buck that seems to work quite well (thank you very much) to 25 yards at around $12/box in an improved. Patterns good enough, but doesn't have the pellet count as with Fed's 3" mag, but too, not nearly the recoil - allows vey quick follow-ups .... a "stand-by" loading for 2-3/4" receivers.

Random brain fart/dump from my own - your mileage will vary, but illustrative enough.
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Old September 2, 2002, 04:23 PM   #5
Al Thompson
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As posted by Quadoughtbuck.....

Extensive Vang Comp 870 Super Magnum Test Results!!!
The purpose of this extensive test was not only to evaluate different brands and types of buck and slugs with the 870 Super Magnum Vang Comp System, but to also find keeper loads for the area of combat buckshot, slug, and Super Magnum Buckshot (for big game). That is a round that proved itself to be superior to the rest of it's class. Not just in one area, but a round that incorporates the best of pattern, velocity, price, reliability, and recoil.

In the end, I decided that Winchester's "Double X" Copper Plated buffered 12 Pellet 00 load was that round. Not only did it produce the best velocity figures out of all the buck loads, but it was very consistent, had 3 extra pellets, and patterned tight to boot. I just ordered 250 rounds of this and am currently phasing out other buck in my arsenal (I just want to stock the 3 "keeper" ammo types, not a misc. selection for each)

Though it patterned the tightest at all ranges, I did not choose the Estate round for several reasons.
1. It is no longer in production
2. Over longer ranges the lack of 3 pellets makes the pattern less dense even though it may be tighter
3. My gun sometimes jams with this load for unknown reasons.

The slug I choose to incorporate was Brenneke's 3" magnum slug. Because it is the most powerful slug, and if I choose to utilize a slug I want to be able to have the power to penetrate, and not have a soft lead pancake instead)

The Super magnum buckshot round I choose was the Nitro 3 1/2" 0000 (Twelve .38 cal pellets). This round produces over 2,800 ft/lbs at the muzzle out of my gun, it is the ultimate close range stopper. If I need immediate stoppage at close range and this round doesn't stop it, nothing handheld will. This is a good round to have chambered when one risks a close encounter in bear country.

These are the rounds I have chosen based on the results I have obtained. Feel free to read my test results and let me know if you think I made the right choices, and if not, what rounds you would have picked instead.



QuadOughtBuck’s Vang Comp 870 Super Magnum Test Results
(Gun was a Vang Comped 870 Super Magnum with a 18.5” chrome lined barrel and porting)


Pattern Results on 23”x 34” ANT-4C style target paper at 15, 29, 42 and 60 yard ranges.

Patterns measured in inches W.x H. (Width by height)

Federal Premium 2 ¾” 9 Pellet 00
15 yrds: 6”x 6”
15 yrds: 4”x 4”
15 yrds: 9”x 7”
15 yrds: 7”x 7”
29 yrds: 11”x 9.5”
29 yrds: 18”x 13”
29 yrds: 18” x 9” (9”x 9” minus flyer)
29 yrds: 15”x 17”
29 yrds: 12”x 12”
29 yrds: 12”x 10”
42 yrds: 16”x 21”
42 yrds:
Average 15 yrds: 6.5”x 6”
Average 29 yrds( - flyer): 13”x 11.75”


Federal Premium 2 ¾” 8 Pellet 000
29 yrds: 9”x 15”
29 yrds: 10”x 18”
29 yrds: 13”x 9”
Average: 10.6”x 14”


Federal Premium 3” 15 Pellet 00
29 yrds: 21”x 16”
29 yrds: 16”x 16”
29 yrds: 19”x 16” (16”x 16” minus flyer)
Average( - flyer): 17.5”x 16”


Winchester XX 2 ¾” 12 Pellet 00
15 yrds: 6”x 7”
15 yrds: 6”x 8” (6”x2”minus flyer)
29 yrds: 16”x 10” *(5 pellets center of aim in a 4”x2.5” area!)
29 yrds: 14”x 14”
29 yrds: 15”x 10” *(6 pellets (50%) center of aim in a 4”x4.5” area!)
29 yrds: 15”x 11”
29 yrds: 11”x 10” (6.5”x 9” minus flyer)
29 yrds: 12”x 16” (8 pellets in a 6”x 6” area)
42 yrds: 16”x 22”
42 yrds: 21”x 19”
42 yrds: 20”x 19”
42 yrds: 20”x 18”
60 yrds: (4 pellets on paper, further 60 yrd shots discontinued)
Average 15 yrd (- flyer): 6”x 7.5”
Average 29 yrd (- flyer): 13”x 11.5”
Average 42 yrd: 19.25”x 19.5”


Winchester XX 3” 15 Pellet 00
15 yrds: 9”x 6”
15 yrds: 9”x 6”
29 yrds: 15”x 15”
29 yrds: 16”x 16” (16”x 9” minus flyer)
29 yrds: 12”x 18.5”
29 yrds: 15”x 16”
42 yrds: 14”x 21”
42 yrds 20”x 25”
42 yrds: 12 pellets on paper in a 15”x 22” area)
Average 15 yrds: 9”x 6”
Average 29 yrds( - flyer): 14.5”x 14.62”
Average 42 yrds: 17”x 23”


Estate SWAT 2 ¾” 9 Pellet 00
29 yrds: 6”x 7.5”
29 yrds: 10”x 10”
29 yrds: 6”x 6.5”
29 yrds: 12”x 10” (7”x6” minus flyer)
29 yrds: 6”x 3.5” ***(7 pellets in a 2”x2” area WOW!)***
42 yrds: 7 pellets on paper in a 10”x17.5” area (two flyers off paper)
42 yrds: 16.5”x 24” (9.5”x 12” minus 2 flyers)
42 yrds: 13”x 14”
Average 29 yrd ( - flyer): 7”x 6.7” ****Tightest Patterning Load of the Bunch!!!
Average 42 yrd: 14.75”x 19”


Sellier and Bellot 2 ¾” 12 Pellet 00
15 yrds: 8”x 9
29 yrds:15”x 26” (15”x 9” – 2 flyers)
29 yrds: 18”x 17”
Average 29 yrd: 13.6”x 17.3” ****Worst Patterning Load of the Bunch!!!


Remington Express 2 ¾” 12 Pellet 00
29 yrds: 12”x 20.5”
29 yrds: 15”x 14”
29 yrds: 13”x 13”
29 yrds: 14”x 14”
Average 29 yrd: 13.5”x 15.37”


Winchester SuperX 3 ½” 18 Pellet 00
29 yrds: 14 pellets on paper in a 16”x 18” area
29 yrds: 16 pellets on paper in a 16”x 13” area:* 10 of the pellets in a 6”x 10” area)
42 yrds: 16 pellets on paper in a 18”x 24” area
42 yrds: 15 pellets on paper in a 16”x 23” area:5 pellets center of aim in a 3.5”x 1.5” area
Average: Inconclusive as all pellets did not impact the paper.


Nitro 3 ½” 18 Pellet 00
29 yrds: 20”x 15”
29 yrds: 15 pellets on paper in a 9”x 12” area
29 yrds: 14 pellets on paper in a 17”x 17” area
42 yrds: 7 pellets on paper in a 20”x 17” area
Average: Inconclusive as all pellets did not impact the paper.


Nitro 3 ½” 12 Pellet 0000 (.38 caliber pellets)
29 yrds: 18”x 12”
29 yrds: 6”x 27” (6”x 14” minus flyer)
29 yrds: 16”x 7” (16”x 26” minus 2 flyers)
42 yrds: 7 pellets on paper in a 17”x 26” area
Average 29 yrd ( - flyer): 13.3”x 15.3”



Velocity and Energy Results: (in foot pounds: ft/lbs) Velocity Results Measured in fps (feet per second) at a distance of 3 yards from a Shooting Chrony: Formula for energy in ft/lbs = Velocity (in fps) squared, times mass (of projectile in grains), divided by 450436 a.k.a. [m(vxv)]\450436

Buckshot


Estate SWAT 2 ¾” 9 Pellet 00
1,166 fps
1,124 fps
1,140 fps
1,136 fps
1,152 fps
Average: 1,144 fps
486 grains @ 1,144 fps –1,413 ft/lbs (157 per pellet)

Sellier and Bellot 2 ¾” 12 Pellet 00
(Too Pathetic to mention. Below 1,000)

Federal Premium 2 ¾” 9 Pellet 00
1,211 fps
1,176 fps
1,214 fps
1,195 fps
1,187 fps
1,192 fps
1,158 fps
1,198 fps
1,145 fps
1,122 fps
1,185 fps
Average: 1,180 fps
486 grains @ 1,180 fps –1,503 ft/lbs (167 per pellet)

Federal Premium 3” 15 Pellet 00
1,014 fps
948 fps
895.7 fps
(further chronographing with this load discontinued due to pathetic velocity figures)
Average: 953 fps
810 grains @ 953 fps –1,633 ft/lbs (108 per pellet)

Winchester XX 2 ¾” 12 Pellet 00
1,207 fps
1,221 fps
1,231 fps
1,219 fps
1,226 fps
Average: 1,221 fps
648 grains @ 1,221 fps –2,145 ft/lbs (179 per pellet)

Winchester XX 3” 15 Pellet 00
1,102 fps
1,100 fps
1,116 fps
1,083 fps
Average: 1,100 fps
810 grains @ 1,100 fps –2,176 ft/lbs (145 per pellet)

Winchester SuperX 3 ½” 18 Pellet 00
1,124 fps
1,146 fps
1,119 fps
Average: 1,130 fps
972 grains @ 1,130 fps –2,755 ft/lbs (153 per pellet)

Remington Express 3 ½” 18 Pellet 00
1,115 fps
1,089 fps
Average: 1,102 fps
972 grains @ 1,102 fps –2,620 ft/lbs (146 per pellet)

Nitro 3 ½” 18 Pellet 00
1,134 fps
1,099 fps
1,139 fps
Average: 1,125 fps
972 grains @ 1,102 fps –2,731 ft/lbs (152 per pellet)

Nitro 3 ½” 12 Pellet 0000 (.38 caliber pellets)
1,137 fps
1,141 fps
1,135 fps
1,142 fps
Average: 1,140 fps
960 grains @ 1,140 fps –2,770 ft/lbs (231 per pellet)


SLUGS

Winchester 2 ¾” Rifled Slug
1,418 fps
1,384 fps
1,399 fps
1,424 fps
1,421 fps
Average: 1,410 fps
438 grains @ 1,410 fps –1,933 ft/lbs

Winchester 3” Rifled Slug
1,530 fps
1,520 fps
1,533 fps
Average: 1,528 fps
438 grains @ 1,528 fps –2,270 ft/lbs

Brenneke 3” Magnum Slug
1,370 fps
1,375 fps
1,368 fps
1,355 fps
1,305 fps
1,272 fps
1,333 fps
1,310 fps
1,301 fps
Average( - lowest velocity): 1,340 fps
600 grains @ 1,340 fps –2,392 ft/lbs


[/B]Wild Tests:[/B]
Rapid Fire 10 rounds of Sellier and Bellot 12 pellet 00 Buckshot at ~65 yards.

First test (Wild 1) was to rapid fire shots as fast as possible toward target without taking time to really line up the sights exactly. AKA just point and shoot mode, reflex shots. This was designed to simulate stress/panic mode during combat.

Second test (Wild II) was rapid fire aimed shots, to fire as fast as possible while first making sure to line up the MMC ghost ring sights to the target. This is designed to simulated concious, cool headed, controled fire under combat.

Test Results: Number of pellets on paper. (Number of pellets on silluet on the paper)
Wild I: 8 (6 on target, 2 vital headshots.)
Wild II:28(19 on target, 8 vital shots on head, neck, heart, and lung).

Clearly, it is better to try to keep a cool head under combat and fire aimed shots. Even though it may be half the speed, not to mention hard to keep a cool head under the stress at combat, it is clearly over 3 times as effective to the target than point and shoot/spray and pray un-aimed shots with buck at that distance.
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Old October 8, 2002, 12:34 PM   #6
Al Thompson
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Opie-In was nice enough to share this info...

I did some patterning with my 870 Cyl bore 18" today...

Federal Tactical 2 3/4 00 Buck #LE132 00
7yards 6.5in spread
10yrds 8.5in spread
15yrds 12in spread
20yrds 8/9 pellets on IDPA target...

Remington Reduced Recoil 2 3/4 00 buck #RR12-00BK
7 yards 7.5in
10yrds 9in
15yrds 14in
20 yards 7/9 pellets on IDPA target...

The longest shot in my house is approx 10 yards so either works fine for me. All shotguns pattern differently.......If you require shots past 15yrds you will want to start looking at Imp Cyl or tighter chokes in my opinion.
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Old November 4, 2002, 01:08 AM   #7
gordo b.
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What the hell is "choke bonded buckshot" and where can I get it. Some body isnt resurrecting split shot on piano wire are they?
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Old November 27, 2002, 08:33 PM   #8
Denny Hansen
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Here goes:
My primary is a Remington 11-87. It’s equipped with a SideSaddle, dedicated SureFire forend, Accu-Trak ghost ring sights, and a single point sling. Other mods include the Easyloader so I don’t have to hit the silly little silver button on the carrier, and an enlarged bolt handle that won’t tear flesh like the factory offering.

Distances posted are twenty-five yards--my personal opinion of what is pushing the envelope for buckshot. All loads are buckshot.

Two screw in chokes: cylinder bore Rem Choke and the "Pattern Master."

Pattern Master:
Fed. 30 pellet #4…14 inches (horizontal stringing)
Fed. 20 pellet #1…14 inches
Fed. 12 pellet 00…7 inches
Win. 8 pellet 000…5.5 inches
Fed. Tactical 00…5 inches

Cylinder Bore:
Fed. 30 pellet #4…18 inches
Fed. 20 pellet #1…23 inches
Fed. 12 pellet 00…15 inches
Win. 8 pellet 000…11 inches
Fed. Tactical 00…9 inches

As you can see, the Pattern Master choke offers superb buckshot patterns, cutting most patterns in half, but I found that (in my gun at least) it produces very erratic groups with slugs. Since I’m happy with the 9-inch pattern my gun gives with Federal Tactical, I have switched to the cylinder bore tube exclusively so I can "select slug" and still be confident. The gun will easily shoot 1-ounce slugs into two inches at 50 yards if I do my part.

Note:
Some of the newer Fed. Tact. does not seem to pattern as well as the early stuff. I have a fair supply of the latter, an that’s what I keep for HD duty.

I use S&B 12 pellet 00 for training, but would not use it for HD due to extreme spread.

Denny
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Old December 31, 2002, 09:04 PM   #9
JackNKoch
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"choke bonded buckshot"

gordo b.

check out http://www.tacticalforums.com The Terminal Effects Forum

Search for this topic (last posted 12/09/02)

Source for CHOKE precison bonded buckshot


BTW, Hornady TAP buckshot uses the Choke shot reducing wad
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Old January 29, 2005, 10:56 PM   #10
9mmMike
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I ran some LE Federal Tactical 2 3/4 00 & 000 Buck (that's 9 & 8 pellet) today.
I only got to shoot a half dozen of each.

The average was:

10yrds 4" spread

Nothing larger than 4.5" and nothing smaller than 3.5".

This was from a 20" rifle-sighted barrel on an 870. The choke was IC but has been Vang'd. This is also the gun with which I hunt clays.

I will try to get back up to the range and do some shots at 15 & 25 yards.

Mike
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Old February 7, 2005, 10:39 AM   #11
9mmMike
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OK. Two things.

1. The distance (I actually measured this time!) from the test above was 25 ft. NOT 10 yards!

2. The results from the most recent test follow:

This was two 870's. Both equipped with 20" (IC-marked) rifle-sighted barrels.
Shotgun #1 was my Evil Black Shotgun which has had the forcing cone lengthened.
Shotgun #2 was my Vang-barrel'd (non-ported) gun.
The targets were 14" x 14" 100 yard rifle targets.
All ammo was Federal LE "tactical" 00 or 000 as noted.

EBSG:

25 ft.

00 Federal LE (9 pellet)

Average Group - 5.5"
Number of Flyers - 0

000 Federal LE (8 pellet)

Average Group - 4.25"
Number of Flyers - 0

72 ft.

00 Federal LE (9 pellet)

Average Group - 11.8125"
Number of Flyers - 1.25

000 Federal LE (8 pellet)

Average Group - 12.875"
Number of Flyers - 1.5


Vang:

25 ft.

00 Federal LE (9 pellet)

Average Group - 4.0625"
Number of Flyers - 0

000 Federal LE (8 pellet)

Average Group - 4"
Number of Flyers - 0

72 ft.

00 Federal LE (9 pellet)

Average Group - 10.5"
Number of Flyers - 0

000 Federal LE (8 pellet)

Average Group - 11.107"
Number of Flyers - .57

That's it for now.

Mike
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Old February 7, 2005, 09:29 PM   #12
9mmMike
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A little more testing with #4 LE Buck (27 pellet) from Federal this time.

This was all fired from my 20" Vang-barrel'd (no ports) 870. The targets were all 14" x 14" 100 yard jobs that were set at the listed distances below. I did not "pattern" this load at 72 feet and only counted holes on target. It is quite possible that many of the pellets were just outside of the 14" square.
I finally got some USPSA/IPSC practice targets that I will use in future tests. These should be much nicer as they have a nice 18" "shoulder" width with A, B, C & D zones that will photo nicely. I should be able to do some "head" shots with slugs as well.

Hits/27 @ 72 feet

1. 23/27
2. 19/27
3. 15/27
4. 16/27

Hits/27 @ 25 feet and size of pattern

1. 27/27 - 5.5" group
2. 27/27 - 7.75" group

That's all I had time for.....

Mike
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Old July 26, 2005, 10:13 AM   #13
Barry in IN
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20 gauge for defense? OR, 20 ga buck/slug testing

I like keeping at least one shotgun as a "house gun". That job had gone to an Ithaca 37 12 gauge for 10-15 years.
Due to a back injury/condition, I started looking at ways to reduce recoil and gun weight. Recoil is only half the problem. It hurts just holding some long guns in the firing position. If I could just trim gun weight a little too.....

Which brought me to the 20 gauge. I got an 1100 LT20 Youth synthetic, which is a pound lighter than a comparable 12 ga 1100/11-87.
I had reservations about the 20 for defense use, mostly due to #3 buck being the largest size available. Federal makes 3" 20 ga with #2 buck, but my gun is a 2-3/4 incher.
I thought that if the 20 could pattern them tight enough, it could work.
I got all the 20 ga buckshot loads I could readily find (3) and a couple of slug loads and went at it.

I tested at 15 yards, because that is the farthest distance I could shot within our house. Should I have to shoot from the inside to the outside, I'll switch to slugs or a rifle.
These are averages. Usually of three shots.
___________________________________________________________
With the IC choke tube, at 15 yards-

1-Winchester Super-X #3 buck (20 pellets), catalog # XB203:
Pellets in 12" circle: 20 (all)
Pellets in 6" circle: 14
Widest spread for all 20 pellets: 9-1/2"

2-Federal Power-Shok #3 buck (20 pellets), cat # F203 3B:
Pellets in 12" circle: 19
Pellets in 6" circle: 7
Widest spread for all 20 pellets: 12-3/4"

3-Federal Premium #3 buck (20 pellets), cat# P256 3B:
Pellets in 12" circle: 19
Pellets in 6" circle: 7
Widest spread for all 20 pellets: 12-1/2"
___________________________________________________
With Modified choke tube, still at 15 yards-

1-Winchester Super-X:
Pellets in 12": 20 (all)
Pellets in 6": 17
Widest spread for all 20 pellets: 7-3/4"

2-Federal Power-Shok:
Pellets in 12": 17
Pellets in 6": 8
Widest spread for all 20 pellets: 12-3/4"

3-Federal Premium:
Pellets in 12": 19
Pellets in 6": 9
Widest spread for all 20 pellets: ??? Shot twice (all I had left), only had 19 on paper (20" wide X 40" high) each time. The 19 on paper averaged an 11" spread.

20 Gauge Buckshot Comments-
I was concerned about any reduced effect that #3 buck would have compared to 00. But the Winchester #3B had a max spread of under 10" with either choke tube. This is at the longest possible in-house distance. That's a pretty concentrated hit. I think it would do fine.

I know that's too tight a pattern for some tastes, but I'm sure it could be opened up if desired.

Point of impact was close with the three types of shells and two chokes. The center of the patterns were within an inch or two among all of them, and pretty well centered on point of aim.
Hits were evenly distributed, and made round patterns- surprisingly, with each shot.
__________________________________________________________
Slugs
I know you can't tell much with slugs at 15 yards, but I could see a couple of things:
-Would the point of impact be much different than the center of the buckshot patterns?
-Would either of the two (IC and Mod) chokes be particularly bad or good with slugs?

Imp Cyl choke, 15 yards, standing, poor sights-
1-Winchester Super-X 3/4 oz (claimed 1600 fps) catalog # X20RSM5: 3 shots, 1-3/4" group, 2" low.
2-Federal Power-Shok 3/4 oz, cat 3 F203RS: 3 shots, 3/4" group, 2" low.

Modified choke tube, 15 yards, standing, still with poor sights-
1-Winchester Super-X 3/4 oz: 1" group, 1-1/4" low.
2-Federal Power-Shok 3/4 oz: 2-1/4" group, 1-1/4" low.

OK, the Winchesters liked Mod, Federals liked Imp Cyl.
The Mod tube raised the point of impact with both types of slugs, but not with buckshot.
I guess I did learn a little bit there.

I will do more testing when I get more ammo. I have some more buckshot loads and slugs in mind to test. Plus, I need to get the real sights mounted, and test slugs at a longer distance.

I was worried that whatever recoil I lost by going to the 20, I might get back due to using a lighter gun. It didn't seem to be the case. Recoil felt considerably lighter than my 12s. The gun was enough lighter that I could handle it without torquing up my back like heavier guns do.
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Old February 18, 2006, 12:16 PM   #14
BODAME
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Join Date: February 18, 2006
Location: The Dodge House, NC
Posts: 183
Need Some Basiv Advise

I have gotten myself confused regarding Sabot Slugs vs Regular Slugs.

I have been using Sabot Slugs in a 11oo Rifle Barrel gun for 3 Gun Shooting.
I have [urchased a Mossberg 590 for the same purpose.
Need advise since this is a Smooth Bore gun.
Which one would be the most accurate ?
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Old September 14, 2006, 09:10 PM   #15
kkb
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Join Date: September 5, 2004
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 379
Here's my stab at some data...


Gun: Remington 870 Marine Magnum
Gauge: 12
Barrel Length: 18 inches
Choke: Cylinder (Fixed)

Velocities taken 5 yards from muzzle.

"Anim" link will show an animated .gif of 5, 10 and 15 yard targets. Please don't laugh too loudly at my aim, this was my first time out with a shotgun. And the wind was whipping the targets too.


Mfr: Sellier & Bellot
P/N: ?
Desc: 2¾ in, 4 Buck, 21 pellets
fps: Avg 1128, Min 920, Max 1309, SD 188, N 4
Spread: 5yd/4in, 10yd/10in, 15yd/13in
Anim: A1

Mfr: Sellier & Bellot
P/N: ?
Desc: 2¾ in, 00 Buck, 12 pellets
fps: Avg 988, Min 969, Max 1018, SD 19, N 5
Spread: 5yd/3in, 10yd/7in, 15yd/11in
Anim: A2

Mfr: Sellier & Bellot
P/N: ?
Desc: 3 in. Magnum, 00 Buck, 15 pellets
fps: Avg 1081, Min 973, Max 1150, SD 71, N 5
Spread: 5yd/4in, 10yd/7in, 15yd/12in
Anim: A3
Note: All shots jammed action. Do not use this shell at all.

Mfr: Winchester
P/N: XB1200
Desc: 2¾ in, 00 Buck, 9 pellets
fps: Avg 1207, Min 1161, Max 1248, SD 32, N 5
Spread: 5yd/4in, 10yd/7in, 15yd/14in
Anim: A4

Mfr: Winchester
P/N: X12XC3B5
Desc: 3 in. Magnum, 00 Buck, 15 pellets
fps: Avg 1071, Min 1042, Max 1114, SD 30, N 5
Spread: 5yd/6in, 10yd/11in, 15yd/15in
Anim: A5

Mfr: Hornady
P/N: 8627
Desc: 2¾ in, 00 Buck, 8 pellets, "TAP Red Box"
fps: Avg 1484, Min 1429, Max 1574, SD 63, N 4
Spread: 5yd/2in, 10yd/3in, 15yd/8in
Anim: A6
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Old March 17, 2008, 08:55 PM   #16
mikenbarb
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Join Date: October 10, 2007
Location: N.J.
Posts: 1,111
Hornady TAP 00 buck

deleted
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Old November 18, 2009, 12:36 PM   #17
SJoseph
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Join Date: November 18, 2009
Location: UT
Posts: 9
Mossberg 500 w/ 20 inch barrel, Remington 00 buck

Patterned my new shotgun law weekend.
Mossberg 500SP Persuader
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../NEW/50577.jpg
20 inch cylinder choke barrel
7+1 mag
black plastic factory furniture

Only modification is a buttstock shell holder w/ 5 shells.


I was shooting Remington 2 3/4 shells with 9 pellets of 00 buckshot.
Patterned 5 shots each at 5 yards, 10 yards, and 20 yards.


Measured height and width of pattern in inches.

5 yds
1. 2.5 x 2
2. 2 x 2.5
3. 2 x 1.5
4. 2.5 x 2
5. 2 x 2

Average:
2.2 x 2
Total square inches of average pattern:
4.4


10 yds
1. 4 x 7
2. 4.5 x 3.75
3. 1.5 x 5.25 (had one outlier on the height, would have been about 6 inches)
4. 4.25 x 9.25
5. 5.25 x 5.75

Average:
3.9 x 6.2 (not including one outlier)
Total square inches of average pattern:
24.17 (not including one outlier)


20 yds (not including outliers)
1. 10.5 x 5.25
2. 9.5 x 8.5
3. 10 x 11
4. 12.75x 7
5. 9.5 x 10

Average:
10.45x 8.35 (not including outliers)
Total square inches of average pattern:
87.25 (not including outliers)

20 yds (including outliers)
1. 10.5 x 10
2. 9.5 x 8.5 (no outlier on this shot)
3. 10 x 15.5
4. 12.75x 12.75
5. 11 x 13 (this shot was too close to the corner of the cardboard and I think two pellets missed so I'm guessing on this pattern size)

Average:
10.75x 11.95(including outliers; note, the height didn't change much when including outliers, but the width of the pattern did change a lot)
Total square inches of average pattern:
128.46 (including outliers)


Of note:
I also shot one 3" magnum shell of 12 pellet 00 buckshot at 10 yds and another at 20 yds

10 yds
6.25 x 10.75 (plus one outlier)
Total square inches of this pattern:
67.19 (compared to 24.17 average for the 9 pellet 00 buck)

20 yds
18.5 x 19 (there were no real outliers for this shot, it just had a big spread)
Total square inches of this patter:
351.5 (compared to 87.25/128.46 average for the 9 pellet 00 buck)

Conclusion:
Before patterning my shotgun, I had the 3" magnum 12 pellet shells in my magazine (it's a home defense shotgun that I hope I'll never use for home defense but is a lot of fun at the range). Now I will never buy them again.
I originally figured the 3 extra pellets offered by the magnum shell would be a great benefit in helping this tool perform its job. Now I see that those three extra pellets will be much more likely to miss the target completely (not good for home defense or just-for-fun shooting) as well as maybe a few more pellets.
I think I can put more pellets on target (unless I'm shooting at less that 10 yds) with the 9 pellet shell than the 12 pellet shell. Also, the magnum shell does kick harder and any follow-up shots if necessary would be just a little harder with the magnum shell.

Outcome:
I was sorely displeased with the performance of the magnum shell. :barf:
I was happy to get my shotgun patterned finally.
I feel comfortable that I could hit something if I need to.
I now have only 9 pellet 00 buck stuffed into my shotgun mag.
I had a lot of fun shooting cardboard and water jugs last weekend.
I continue to love my new gun.


Ps. The tape measure in the pictures is set to 18 inches.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5 yds.jpg (21.5 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg 10 yds.jpg (16.4 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg 20 yds.jpg (17.7 KB, 93 views)

Last edited by SJoseph; November 18, 2009 at 06:53 PM. Reason: add link to picture of gun
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Old April 25, 2012, 12:49 PM   #18
zippy13
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Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,392
Hornady SST® Slugs

Hornady claims, "The SST® Shotgun Slug delivers true 200 yard accuracy and you'll achieve sub-2" groups at 100 yards." Have any of you slugsters substantiated these phenomenal claims?
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Old October 6, 2012, 11:42 PM   #19
jimmy9187
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2012
Posts: 3
Remington 1100 LW 20 gauge

I have a Remington 1100 LW serial# L41XXXK that I just bought from a friend. It is all original and in excellent shape, I was wondering if this gun was rare? It has a 25" (24 7/8) ribbed barrel and says Imp Cyl. Any help would be appreciated...
Thank you,
Jim
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Old October 7, 2012, 06:33 PM   #20
Dave McC
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Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
Not rare at all. Good gun, enjoy....
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