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Old July 6, 2002, 06:55 AM   #1
switch625
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tactical supplies for my shotgun

i'm about to buy either a mossy or rem HD shotgun. i see there are alot of people making acc's out there. which ones are worth looking at? or what to avoid.

i'll be looking to buy either pistol grip or shoulder stock w/pistol grip depending on what the gun comes with. a tube ext and some sort of light setup for it.

comments/suggestions welcome.
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Old July 6, 2002, 07:24 AM   #2
KSFreeman
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Why not just buy the whole setup like from Robar or Wilson? Or send an existing 870 into them? Less stress running hither and yon and you are only dealing with one company in case something goes wrong.
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Old July 6, 2002, 07:55 AM   #3
switch625
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they're too proud of their stuff.
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Old July 6, 2002, 08:54 AM   #4
Dave McC
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Tons of info in the Archives, I suggest you do some research there.

One quick thing, few folks who are "Serious" shotgunners, either personally or professionally use a PG only shotgun.See the Archives as to why...

And, an absolutely stock US made, short bbled pump is a close range weapon of tremendous capabilities. The bellsnwhistles add a little but not much.
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Old July 6, 2002, 09:49 AM   #5
switch625
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didn't see any recommendations for accessory manufacturers in the archives.
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Old July 6, 2002, 03:13 PM   #6
Andrew Wyatt
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If i were in your situation, i'd buy a mossberg model 500 persuader (which is their 7+1 20 inch barrel model) , and put a surefire responder light and a butt cuff on it. the mossberg is 219 from big 5, the surefire is in the mid 200 dollar range, and the butt cuff is ten dollars from uncle mikes.

the 500 persuader's only flaw is the front sling swivel location, which is a half inch behind the muzzle, which makes for an awkward carrying gun.

you's probably end up spending about 400 dollars all up for this. since surefire is proud of their lights.


my 500 doesn't mount a light on it yet, but it does have a set of the mosberg ghost ring sights, which we modified so the front could be screwed on instead of silver soldered.
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Old July 6, 2002, 03:37 PM   #7
switch625
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i'll find something else besides the surefire. i have an e2e. their lights are awesome but there weapon mounts are rediculously high.

what does the butt cuff do?

thanks for the info.
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Old July 6, 2002, 03:40 PM   #8
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I agree, I've had virtually all of the shotguns out there and shot most of the rest. After it all, my second choice is the 15 year old H&K Benelli, Model 90 with long tube and pistol grip... First choice is a bare naked Mossberg 500. That top tang safety means the world to me in a stressful situation -- no worries, no errors, in sight, gloves and cold or sweaty fingers don't matter, the accuracy is excellent, reliability is perfect and I've not seen where any of the accessories are (after trying them all of course at great expense) worth what they cost.

After 30 years of trying all sorts of things; I now have settled on the Mossy 500 and next to it is a one gallon ziplock bag with 8 slugs in a quart ziplock, 8 buckshot in a quart ziplock, 8 #9s in another ziplock, and 8 copper solids in the last ziplock -- these all fit into the gallon ziplock and that goes into a little shoulder bag with a long strap -- we had some feral cats in the yard a few nights ago and out of a deep sleep, I was in the yard with my bag of shells and the Mossy in just a few seconds -- fast enough to get three of the cats with the #9s I keep it loaded with and speeded up 5 more into warp 7 as they got out of the yard and away from our home. I was reloaded, in the dark with the help of my bite light, in a few seconds from the ziplock. I may go back to the old 12 ga. bandolier, when I find it however, as there will be a lot more nights of thinning the cats to come.
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Old July 8, 2002, 01:24 AM   #9
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I'd suggest a couple hundred shells through the shooter to become familiar with it first off. Then, you'd have an idea as to what you want to add regards "tactical."

A stock shotgun's pretty "tactical" out of the box - right off.

An extension tube adds some, no doubt, but your standard five is nothing to sneeze at. Too, a bit of practise with a 3-cell C or D-size MagLite is effective as most anything else - practise counts.

You could drop another couple hundred $s into a "tactical shotgun" & have nothing better than one you've just "played with." It'll be trick, but not neceessarily any better.
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Old July 8, 2002, 12:15 PM   #10
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We just upgraded our cruiser shotguns from bone-stock 870s to ubertactical ninja guns (thats my PD, baby. Blazing a trail into the late 1980s today!). We took the standard, out of box 870 with 18" bbl and did the following:

1. Added a Surefire forearm
2. Added an extended magazine tube (2 shots)
3. Added a Speedfeed PG buttstock
4. Added an Uncle Mike's Tactical Sling

The only modification that I think was at all needed was the Surefire. The rest definately fits in the 'nice to have' category, but it is foam on the top of the beer and nothing more.

Why?

Well, the extended magazine tube adds weight and changes the feel of the weapon...two things that are not necessarily bad, but that you need to address in training. And 4 shots is likely plenty to have ready on tap. The other 2 are nice to have, but probably not absolutely necessary.

The Speedfeed buttstock is a PITA. I disliked the PG, but I'm now used to it. Getting the shells out of the stock tubes, however, is hit or miss. Sometimes they just want to pop right out, other times you have to dig and claw at them. Not good in a fumble-fingered adrenaline-thumping jeeze-I-need-a-slug-right-NOW scenario. A good buttcuff is probably better.

The tactical sling is a good idea for anyone who might be doing urban assault ninja ops, but for a lock-yourself-in-the-bedroom-and-call-911 usage, the most it is gonna do for you is get hung-up on the bedpost and slow you down.

Most importantly, if you get a forearm light, I DO recommend the Surefire. Yes, they're pricey. But they are rock solid and they work. You CAN find them places for less than MSRP. www.lagger-pro.com is one, and the dreaded www.botachtactical.com is another. For HD work, the smallest/cheapest one they have (6v?, touch-pad) will work just fine.

Mike
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Old July 8, 2002, 11:00 PM   #11
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Bought most of my tactical stuff through the Sportmansguide

I have a Mossberg 500. I had the pistol grips on it and they look pretty cool but I would have had to register it as a pistol and didn't want to do that. That pistol grip is really rough on the hands too! I bought a used 18" barrel and since I have had one heck of a time finding a mag extension I put a Side Saddle on it. I also have a flashlight mount, and a laser (Makes the cat go insane chasing it) Since I also use the gun for Turkey hunting (bought a 28 " choke barrel) I have a 2 powerscope mounted on see through rings so I can use the bead site for close up stuff.

I do need to get a sling for it.

Good luck!
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Old July 9, 2002, 01:26 PM   #12
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The ATI (Advanced Tactical Inc) was the least expensive full stock with pistol grip I could find and it fits/works well for me on my Mossberg 500. The stock with pistol grip makes things like tactical reloading much easier/faster for me. Everyone says do not go with a pistol grip only rig.

The Sidesaddle shell carrier mounts nicely on the left side of the receiver and, at least on the Mossberg, holds six shells. This proved its worth to me during a two-day intense tactical shotgun class with lots of shoot-two, load-two, shoot-two drills. I was able to do extremely fast reloads from the Sidesaddle.

Also from ATI is a screw-to-the-buttstock version of a sidesaddle type shell carrier. It holds five additional shells and also worked well for me in the shotgun training. My home defense theory is that I don't want to have to search for my ammo bag in the dark... so I wanted as much as I could have mounted on the gun. Counting the one in the chamber, I've got 17 shells on board. (boy, I hope I never need that many!) I was OK with all of that weight during the intense two days of shooting. Several people warned me away from elastic or strap-on butt cuff shell carriers, saying they flop around.

While I don't keep it on the SG when in home defense mode, I do have a padded sling from Uncle Mikes that I can attach if I need to go somewhere. A sling was required in the training I took, doing fast shots from both the American and African carry.

I just couldn't bring myself to spend more on a light than I did the gun and thus ruled out the Surefire Responder. My HD situation is small rooms, close range, and so I mounted a Mini MagLite with a pig-tail pressure switch. The mount is to the magazine tube via a figure-8 looking clamp from Uncle Mikes (?). This appears to provide ample illumination to properly ID a target in my home and it has survived over 1000 shots so far.

Bruce.
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Old July 9, 2002, 05:38 PM   #13
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I'm leery about mointing a sidesaddle on an aluminum recievered gun like the mossberg, because the mounting pins are steel and wallow out the holes they ride in fairly quickly under normal use.

I have an uncle mikes elastic bit cuff on my shotgun, and it holds five rounds of slug, and five rounds of buckshot (i have two rounds in each loop)

if i ever need the shotgun, I'll load the fove rounds of buck immiediately, leabing each loop on the buttstock with one slug round. (i don't keep my shotguns loaded.)

I think i'll try that maglight idea until i can come up with a surefire.
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Old July 9, 2002, 06:45 PM   #14
Mo_Zam_Beek
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One quick thing, few folks who are "Serious" shotgunners, either personally or professionally use a PG only shotgun.


DAVE - kindly do the peanut gallery a favor - stop telling people this. We get the greatest joy from reading the stories of those that attempt a one handed slug shot only to have the recoil whomp them in the head with barrel.

I have spit up on my screen twice now from 2 such stories. I want more.
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Old July 9, 2002, 07:37 PM   #15
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Mo, you mean GSCs actually admit their silliness? I thought they were too busy being tactical?
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Old July 9, 2002, 07:41 PM   #16
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Mo_Zam_Beek, you ain't right!



Seriously, a good friend had a "Kimmel Camper" and figured that if it was chambered in 3 inch, one should use 3 inch shells. He loaded a 3 inch slug, proceeded to almost sprain his right wrist. Thinking that his grip was at fault, he changed hands and touched off another. The SG torqued back the SG so hard that his dive watch bruised the back of his left hand.

I actually bought a folding stock 870 from J&G Sales in ' 82. Changed stocks one box of shells later.
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Old July 9, 2002, 08:26 PM   #17
switch625
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thanks for all the great info! i'm going to buy one with a shoulder stock. if i want a pistol grip/shoulder i'll pick one up later.
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Old July 9, 2002, 09:34 PM   #18
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Ubertactical--I love that.

Those pistol grips, full or short, are for play or special situations only. I swear someday I'm going to shoot a round of trap with a PG front and rear just to see if I can hit anything. As far as a pistol grip buttstock goes, the less gun there is the better, less to snag on things and get in the way.

Ammo and practice are the best accessories.

Regards.
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Old July 9, 2002, 11:11 PM   #19
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I'm leery about mointing a sidesaddle on an aluminum recievered gun like the mossberg, because the mounting pins are steel and wallow out the holes they ride in fairly quickly under normal use.

This is true. My friend has a Mossberg 500 that he let me borrow. It had a side-saddle on it. After about 200 rounds of the Wal-Mart 100rd federal value packs, the side saddle was swinging freely by only one screw. It looks to have stripped out the screw holes on the side of the receiver or something.
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Old July 10, 2002, 04:44 AM   #20
Dave McC
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Sorry, Mo, the same conscience that makes me stop kids playing with matches makes me preach about the Evil PG.

And BTW,I shot a slug(Winchester Forster style) from a folder equipped 870, folded. Hit the target and didn't hurt anywhere. Not inclined to repeat this sillyness.
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Old July 16, 2002, 01:07 PM   #21
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Went "tactical" about 20 years back when I got a really good deal on a Rem factory folder/PG/LEO-only stock. Had an extension tube on & loaded that sucker up with some 1-1/4 oz #4s & blasted the heck out of a rock out-cropping 10 yards out - folder up/no shoulder stock.

Rapid-fire, I proceeded to miss the target repeatably & kept shooting "for effect" until the PG butted (maybe 2 shells later) into my mouth & gave me a "parrot beak." Never punched myself in the face before that .....

Maybe with more shooting, I could overcome the silliness of using a long-gun as a pistol .... until then, I think I'll just use the standard stock & hit what I'm aiming at .....

A folder stock does have some attractiveness regards compactness, but every one to date does suck when actually shooting them - somewhat the whole point, no?

Give me a stock 870 & a light - mounted or not. & the light itself only comes into play ... what? way <1% of the time .... ?
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Old July 16, 2002, 04:08 PM   #22
Andrew Wyatt
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the light probably comes into play about 50 percent of the time.

more, if you use it as a HD gun.


A light is a necessary acessary.
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