Hogdon H110 Warning?

Red Label · June 25, 2002, 02:45 PM

Hi there. I just started reloading for my .44 mag revolvers this past February. I have probably loaded between 500 and 1000 rounds. I have always used Hogdon H110. I got a Hogdon load booklet with my Lee Anniversary reloading kit, as well as the Lee reloading manual. So I have plenty of load data for my needs.

At any rate, I have always used the standard rule of reducing the Never Exceed loads by 10% up until this last time, when I reloaded 200 rounds. It just so happens that I was just flipping through what I thought was some non-relevant part of the Hogdon booklet when I noticed a paragraph that said when using H110, reduce Never Exceed loads my a maximum of 3% or it's possible that the bullet will lodge in the barrel and cause a blow-up on the next firing. What?!?!?! Needless to say, I thanked my lucky stars and corrected my loads (along with reading ALL of the booklet through).

I have never noticed a problem shooting 90% loads. But I take this warning seriously. So you would think that Hogdon would put an asterisk by their H110 load tables and put that warning where someone could see it without reading the booklet in its entirety. Am I wrong? Should they have done this to avoid liability? (And yes, I know that I should read everything through all the way too.) And I don't recall the Lee reloading book saying anything about this either.

Zak Smith · June 25, 2002, 08:36 PM

FWIW, my Hornady book lists from 20.7gr to 24.8gr of H110 for a 240gr JHP in .44MAG. That min load (20.7) is almost 20% under the max (24.8).

Here's some other load data for 240gr's:
Hornady (older): 21.8 - 24.9
Nosler: 22.8 - 23.8
Sierra: 21.1 - 24.2
Speer (lead): 21 - 23
Speer (JHP): 22 - 24
RCBS: 22.2 - 24.2
Hodgdon: 23-24

I quote these so you have some comparison for other published loads with this powder. 3% of 24 is about 0.7gr.

-z

Southla1 · June 25, 2002, 09:20 PM

I think what Hornady is trying to say is that H-110 is a hard powder to ignite and it's possible that without a magnum primer and a light load the shot may "squib" and not push the bullet out of the barrel and when firing the next one...................well you know what happens then.

Just do not go under the recommended MINIMUM load that is published in the bookwith whatever primer is recommended and you will be OK.

Red Label · June 25, 2002, 11:41 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. I am now home, and am looking at this booklet. It is the "LEE Data Manual for Hodgdon Powders". It was put together by both LEE and Hodgdon. The loads listed are the Never Exceed loads ONLY. They recommend the standard reduction of 10% for all data to start with. But then there's the paragraph that reads:

"H110 loads should not be reduced more than 3%. Reduce H110 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 if reduced too much will cause inconsistant ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%."

This may be news to some of you (as it was to me). To clarify, in the manual they list the primer as a Remington 2 1/2, and the barrel as 8.275". I use CCI Large Magnum Pistol primers and shoot from .44 mag Taurus M44 revolvers with 2 3/4" and 4" barrels. Have never had a problem with my 90% reloads using H110 powder. But the warning still gives me pause. I have been thinking about trying Alliant 2400 anyways, so I can load it in both my .44 and my .30-06 reloads.

P.S. Thanks for the loads smithz.

stans · June 26, 2002, 06:36 AM

I have used H-110 in the 357 Magnum and I always started 10% below the maximum. No problems, but I make sure that I have a strong roll crimp on those cartridges. I think the real problem arises from insufficient crimping, which leads to irregular ignition.

Red Label · June 26, 2002, 10:14 AM

Thanks for that info Stans. I started out crimping a bit, but as of late my reloads have had little to no crimp. I guess I should revisit the crimping issue.

**Mike Irwin** · June 27, 2002, 06:59 AM

The same warnings are made for WW 296, which is essentially the same powder as H110.

Winchester makes H110 for Hodgdon, using slightly different deterrent coatings, I believe.

Anyway, I've always gone with the information I've found in Hornady regarding information on these two powders, and have never had a problem.

Tom Matiska · June 27, 2002, 08:56 AM

Never had a problem with Hodogons's H110 data in my Mag, but...

Twice in my 44Special I've had squibs lodge in the barrel when using the H110 data they published in their #25 Manual (1988 vintage). First time I though I may have goofed on the crimp, no doubt about the crimp the second time. No other manual I have goes down to 44 Spec levels with H110, and probably for good reason.

Tom

stans · June 27, 2002, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Winchester makes H110 for Hodgdon, using slightly different deterrent coatings, I believe.

Actually, Olin makes the powder for Winchester and Hodgdon. W-231 and HP-38 are also the same.

**Mike Irwin** · June 27, 2002, 04:29 PM

"Actually, Olin makes the powder for Winchester and Hodgdon. W-231 and HP-38 are also the same."

I'm glad you can keep that straight!

At one point weren't the powders made at Winchester's East Alton plant, but it was spun off to Olin a couple of years ago?

I always thought that was the case...

"231 and HP-38 are also the same"

But different in that either the deterrent coatings or the blending are a bit different, just enough so that the data should NOT be interchanged...

I think at one time Hodgdon also offered a 570 variant.

**Mal H** · June 27, 2002, 10:03 PM

I could swear we've gone over this before Mike. Both combinations of ball powders mentioned are now made by Primex Technologies of St. Pete, FL. Primex was a spinoff of Olin in 1996 and is a manufacturer of a lot more than just ball powders, e.g., rocket propellents, munitions propellents, aerospace stuff.

Both sets of powders leave Primex as the same powder. I have been told here on TFL that the receiving manufacturers (Win and Hodgdon) make slight changes (deterrent coating) which make the powders ever so slightly different.

**Mike Irwin** · June 28, 2002, 12:03 AM

I'm sure we'll be over it again, too, Mal.

stans · June 28, 2002, 06:47 AM

Yep, some of us have short memories. What are we talking about and why did you call me? Where am I? Who am I?????

blades67 · June 29, 2002, 03:04 AM

Where's my car?

Southla1 · June 29, 2002, 09:12 AM

I KNOW I just put it/then there. Now where did it/they go?

(This question usually refers to my gasses

)

June 25, 2002, 02:45 PM	#1
Red Label Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2001 Location: Urban Montana? Posts: 304	Hogdon H110 Warning? Hi there. I just started reloading for my .44 mag revolvers this past February. I have probably loaded between 500 and 1000 rounds. I have always used Hogdon H110. I got a Hogdon load booklet with my Lee Anniversary reloading kit, as well as the Lee reloading manual. So I have plenty of load data for my needs. At any rate, I have always used the standard rule of reducing the Never Exceed loads by 10% up until this last time, when I reloaded 200 rounds. It just so happens that I was just flipping through what I thought was some non-relevant part of the Hogdon booklet when I noticed a paragraph that said when using H110, reduce Never Exceed loads my a maximum of 3% or it's possible that the bullet will lodge in the barrel and cause a blow-up on the next firing. What?!?!?! Needless to say, I thanked my lucky stars and corrected my loads (along with reading ALL of the booklet through). I have never noticed a problem shooting 90% loads. But I take this warning seriously. So you would think that Hogdon would put an asterisk by their H110 load tables and put that warning where someone could see it without reading the booklet in its entirety. Am I wrong? Should they have done this to avoid liability? (And yes, I know that I should read everything through all the way too.) And I don't recall the Lee reloading book saying anything about this either.

June 27, 2002, 06:59 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,293	The same warnings are made for WW 296, which is essentially the same powder as H110. Winchester makes H110 for Hodgdon, using slightly different deterrent coatings, I believe. Anyway, I've always gone with the information I've found in Hornady regarding information on these two powders, and have never had a problem. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 27, 2002, 04:29 PM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,293	"Actually, Olin makes the powder for Winchester and Hodgdon. W-231 and HP-38 are also the same." I'm glad you can keep that straight! At one point weren't the powders made at Winchester's East Alton plant, but it was spun off to Olin a couple of years ago? I always thought that was the case... "231 and HP-38 are also the same" But different in that either the deterrent coatings or the blending are a bit different, just enough so that the data should NOT be interchanged... I think at one time Hodgdon also offered a 570 variant. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 28, 2002, 12:03 AM	#12
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,293	I'm sure we'll be over it again, too, Mal. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 29, 2002, 03:04 AM	#14
blades67 Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 1999 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 6,015	Where's my car? __________________ Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat! I hunt, therefore I am.

June 25, 2002, 08:36 PM	#2
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,675	FWIW, my Hornady book lists from 20.7gr to 24.8gr of H110 for a 240gr JHP in .44MAG. That min load (20.7) is almost 20% under the max (24.8). Here's some other load data for 240gr's: Hornady (older): 21.8 - 24.9 Nosler: 22.8 - 23.8 Sierra: 21.1 - 24.2 Speer (lead): 21 - 23 Speer (JHP): 22 - 24 RCBS: 22.2 - 24.2 Hodgdon: 23-24 I quote these so you have some comparison for other published loads with this powder. 3% of 24 is about 0.7gr. -z

June 25, 2002, 09:20 PM	#3
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	I think what Hornady is trying to say is that H-110 is a hard powder to ignite and it's possible that without a magnum primer and a light load the shot may "squib" and not push the bullet out of the barrel and when firing the next one...................well you know what happens then. Just do not go under the recommended MINIMUM load that is published in the bookwith whatever primer is recommended and you will be OK.

June 25, 2002, 11:41 PM	#4
Red Label Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2001 Location: Urban Montana? Posts: 304	Thanks for the replies guys. I am now home, and am looking at this booklet. It is the "LEE Data Manual for Hodgdon Powders". It was put together by both LEE and Hodgdon. The loads listed are the Never Exceed loads ONLY. They recommend the standard reduction of 10% for all data to start with. But then there's the paragraph that reads: "H110 loads should not be reduced more than 3%. Reduce H110 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 if reduced too much will cause inconsistant ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%." This may be news to some of you (as it was to me). To clarify, in the manual they list the primer as a Remington 2 1/2, and the barrel as 8.275". I use CCI Large Magnum Pistol primers and shoot from .44 mag Taurus M44 revolvers with 2 3/4" and 4" barrels. Have never had a problem with my 90% reloads using H110 powder. But the warning still gives me pause. I have been thinking about trying Alliant 2400 anyways, so I can load it in both my .44 and my .30-06 reloads. P.S. Thanks for the loads smithz.

June 26, 2002, 06:36 AM	#5
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	I have used H-110 in the 357 Magnum and I always started 10% below the maximum. No problems, but I make sure that I have a strong roll crimp on those cartridges. I think the real problem arises from insufficient crimping, which leads to irregular ignition.

June 26, 2002, 10:14 AM	#6
Red Label Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2001 Location: Urban Montana? Posts: 304	Thanks for that info Stans. I started out crimping a bit, but as of late my reloads have had little to no crimp. I guess I should revisit the crimping issue.

June 27, 2002, 08:56 AM	#8
Tom Matiska Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pa Posts: 935	Never had a problem with Hodogons's H110 data in my Mag, but... Twice in my 44Special I've had squibs lodge in the barrel when using the H110 data they published in their #25 Manual (1988 vintage). First time I though I may have goofed on the crimp, no doubt about the crimp the second time. No other manual I have goes down to 44 Spec levels with H110, and probably for good reason. Tom

June 27, 2002, 10:03 PM	#11
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern VA Posts: 14,126	I could swear we've gone over this before Mike. Both combinations of ball powders mentioned are now made by Primex Technologies of St. Pete, FL. Primex was a spinoff of Olin in 1996 and is a manufacturer of a lot more than just ball powders, e.g., rocket propellents, munitions propellents, aerospace stuff. Both sets of powders leave Primex as the same powder. I have been told here on TFL that the receiving manufacturers (Win and Hodgdon) make slight changes (deterrent coating) which make the powders ever so slightly different.

June 28, 2002, 06:47 AM	#13
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	Yep, some of us have short memories. What are we talking about and why did you call me? Where am I? Who am I?????

June 29, 2002, 09:12 AM	#15
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	I KNOW I just put it/then there. Now where did it/they go? (This question usually refers to my gasses )