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Old June 24, 2002, 02:35 PM   #1
sricciardelli
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Remington Brass

I just ordered and received 300 Remington .22-250 and 300 Remington 6mm pieces of brass. Naturally I specified that all the .22-250 brass be from the same lot number, and did the same for the 6mm brass.

I then decided to take some measurements.

I plucked 50 of each size and started playing with my calipers and micrometers...

Here is what I found:

The OAL of the 50 .22-250 cases varied only 0.002".
The OAL of the .22-250 cases was smack-dab in the middle of the "trim to" and the "max" lengths.
The OAL of the 50 6mm cases varied only 0.002".
The OAL of the 6mm cases was smack-dab in the middle of the "trim to" and the "max" lengths.
Casewall thickness on all 100 cases was 0.015".
The primer pocket depth was the same on all 100 cases.
The primer pocket diameter was the same on all 100 cases.
Yes, I had to de-burr the inside of the flasholes of all 600 cases.
And I did trim all the .22-250 cases to the same length, as well as trimming all the 6mm cases to the same length (although I really don't think that step was necessary!)
And I also chamfered inside and outside case mouths.

Considering the bad-mouthing I have been reading recently about Remington and Winchester brass, and all the glory-hounding of Norma brass...I just gotta ask...

When you can buy Remington brass with this type of quality and consistency for $17.05 per 100, why pay $60.62 per hundred for Norma?
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Old June 24, 2002, 03:42 PM   #2
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I would be curious to see how the weights vary.
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Old June 24, 2002, 09:51 PM   #3
sricciardelli
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Okay, since several people in different forums have brought up the question of the weight variation of the brass, I weighed the same 50 .22-250 and 50 6mm Remington brass.

For the .22-250...lightest was 153.3 grains, heaviest was 154.8 grains. Average was 154.0 grains.
For the 6mm...lightest was 171.2 grains, heaviest was 172.1 grains. Average was 171.5 grains.

I have no idea if these numbers are good, bad or average, since I have never bothered weighing cases before.
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Old June 25, 2002, 02:31 PM   #4
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Remington brass is consistant. So are Remington primers. That's why I haven't used anything other than Remington primers for 20+ years.

All newly manufactured brass that I buy is Remington.
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Old June 25, 2002, 04:22 PM   #5
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Looks like good stuff all 'round, but if you want to know for sure, first, use a 10% reduced loading & fireform everything to your chamber & then check everything all over.

I'd probably do the primer depth & ream flash holes form internals deal previously.

Do the weight check, lengths, etc., yadas all over.

Fireforming to a certain rifle's chamber does the 55K+ blow-molding process & culls the herd, if you will.

After that, check your lengths (& trim to suitable specs). Then, do the weight check for optimum case-to-case "whoopy." (that should cover brass thicknesses, etc.)

Essentially, remove all normal process variation & then fire-form, then trim-to-length & get serious.

Note that I've never been a bench-rest guy, but have turned in quite a few sub-1/4MOA groups with "mere" production rifles & same-same brass..

The bench-rest guys get absolutely anal with their techniques. All I want to do is make sure all my brass is the same - gives me a starting point - my production barrels aren't likely up to doing anything other than that - with a custom/match barrel, I'd go the extra length.

And, if all you're doing is reloading "pretty acceptable rifle fodder" (you're likely into a fairly high order of precision/varmit shooting regards your listed caliber choice), this'll give a great starting point.

Really do suggest a fire-forming first/before you start your trimming & brass culling operations.

All told though, I've been very happy with bulk Remington rifle brass. The Wife's 7-08 "cartridge herd" started off with an absolutely great price of off-the-shelf factory ammo - a gun show close-out. Shot it up & went from there .... wasn't disappointed.
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Old June 25, 2002, 05:48 PM   #6
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"Note that I've never been a bench-rest guy, but have turned in quite a few sub-1/4MOA groups with "mere" production rifles & same-same brass.. "

Then maybe I'll get groups like these?

http://stevespages.com/targets.html

Oh...they are my production rifle targets...never mind.....
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Old June 26, 2002, 12:14 AM   #7
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Coupla those look pretty good, sricciardelli. No doubt. sub 1/3 penny-sized groups are well within saying "I got a load."
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Old June 28, 2002, 07:12 AM   #8
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I go through a bit of brass here in the hollow and I'm happy with the bulk packed stuff from Remingtion. I also use Winchester and Starline. The companies do a fine job. I shoot mostly once fired Remington brass purchased from ranges in my rifles. No problems.
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Old June 28, 2002, 09:47 AM   #9
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sricciardelli kinda likes Rugers?

Steve, those are some outstanding groups. Do I understand your "production rifles" to mean, NO custom work or tuning of the firearms?

As to the overall topic, I've been pretty impressed with accuracy of standard, off-the-shelf Remington factory ammo in the past few years, especially in .257 Roberts, .223, and .25-06. I've gotten repeatable sub-one inch groups with each of these. One notable exception was their .308 180 gr. "Express" load. Just can't get it to shoot in my Savage Scout, though I've found a couple of handloads which do right well.

Best,
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Old June 28, 2002, 10:51 AM   #10
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"Production rife", to me, means right out of the box with no magic tricks.

They are all Ruger 77's, and the only thing I have done is use the factory adjustments for the trigger, polish the mating surfaces a tad, and hog-out the forearm so that the barrel is free-floating from the receiver down. (I know...Ruger says don't do it!).

As for the brass, each firearm gets its own batch of factory fresh brass (used to be 1000 cases, but now that I am approaching "old age", I have cut that back to 300 pieces). I neck size the brass, then trim them all to the length of the shortest case, de-burr the inside flash hole, and then chamfer the inside and outside case neck. That is all I do for "brass prep".

After the initial firing, all I do is neck-size the brass, clean the primer pockets and tumble the brass. I never do any more brass cutting at all.

Then I "season the barrel" with around 20 rounds and start working up loads.

Oh, and all the Rugers, except for one, are the "old models", not the MK II's.

I just came across two 77R "Liberty" models, ANIB, in .22-250 and 6mm Remington. I am in the process of prepping the brass right now, and picking some new components (other than the Sierra HPBT bullets, which I will NEVER not use).

I'm going to try Varget in the .22-250 (have been married to H-380 since 1968, or so). Also going to use H-4831-SC in the 6MM (Have always used IMR-4350).

I have adjusted the triggers and mounted a couple of Leupold Vari-X II 4-12x40AO scopes on them. Have not hogged-out the wood. I want to try them first the way they are, but my experience has been they will be better off free-floated.

I have to say that I am not a target shooter, I am a hunter. However, I want to make sure that the firearm and the ammunition is eliminated as a variable when I spot that antelope at 704 yards...and I have found the only way to do that is to get the smallest group possible on paper.
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Old June 29, 2002, 03:58 AM   #11
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Inspiring stuff, Steve - - -

I need to look up your pages again when more rested and see if you have some stuff that'll work in MY old Rugers. I bought a used 77R in '06 around 1977. It has long been my primary working rifle, but I could never get it to reliably shoot below about 1.25" (at 100.)

Traded for a 77S in .257 Roberts in 75, I think, also used. It holds under an inch with Sierra 100 gr flat base.

Recently picked up an old 77RS in .338 but haven't started handloading for it yet. I let my previous .338, an Interarms Mk X Mauser, go a few years back, along with my dies, and need to pick up some more. Have you done any development with such loads?

Later,
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Old June 29, 2002, 08:20 AM   #12
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I'd say that 85% of all my brass is R-P (the other 15% being USGI), and I have not ever, nor do I now have, any complaints about it. There is better sure, but for the small increase in quality, IMHO it's not worth the cost, especially since you can do a little work on the R-P brass such as weighing, trimming, neck turning, flash hole deburring etc. and then it's as good as the premium stuff.

That's just my thoughts thats all.
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