New Taurus revolver timing/cylinder problem?

coppinger · June 20, 2002, 01:15 PM

Using the very informative procedures previously detailed by Mr. March I evaluated a brand new unfired Taurus 608 that I just purchased. This is what I found:

Barrell/cylinder gap: .002 feeler gauge slid in easily, .003 would not go in at all.

Timing: Using a Scorpion lithium flashlight pointed at the rear of the cylinder and looking looking down the (unloaded) barrell I was concerned to see a "black crescent-shaped sliver going from 12 o'clock clockwise to 6 o'clock on all eight cylinders. Three of the eight cylinders were a little more pronounced than others. It is enough to see that the cylinder is not alligned exactly.

Forcing cone: Nice and round/clean

Cylinder play: While depressing the trigger rearward with the hammer released forward, five of the eight were rock solid but three had a noticable movement to the point where you could make a noticable sound while moving the cylinder. There was no forward/aft movement of cylinder.

Trigger: Using snap caps the trigger seemed fine but this is my first revolver and I don't have much to compare it with (other than the M10 .38 issued to me in the Army more than 10 years ago)

Should I be concerned with the timing and cylinder play? I would really like to hear from someone. Thanks

C.R.Sam · June 20, 2002, 03:31 PM

Were you doing the timing check with the hammer down but the trigger still held all the way to the rear ?

If so....then it is a matter of degree. Very slight out of time is not that big a deal.......getting a gunsmith to check it with a field rod would be a good idea. Perfection is actually rare. But we do like em as close as is affordable.

Also do the recheck with the light from both sides. Sometimes just the angle of the light will show what you are seeing. If the effect switches sides when you move the light to the other side...you ok.

Sam

coppinger · June 20, 2002, 04:43 PM

Yes, I had the trigger all the way back and let the hammer down all the way forward when I checked it. I'm taking it back tomorrow where I bought it to have it checked with a field rod as you suggested. I had put the snap caps with the springs in them when I first bought it to do some dry-fire sessions in both slow and rapid fire. I wonder if rotating the large cylinder around rapidly while dry-firing would do any damage when you consider the larger than normal weight mass the 8-cylinder is. Any ideas? Thanks.

JimFromFL · June 20, 2002, 07:56 PM

My first Taurus would splinter the lead from the bullets and the cooper from FMJ bullets. Many times I came home from the range with specs of blood on my face and neck. This was due to the cylinder being too loose. And this was on a brand new Taurus.

Also checked out a brand new Tracker at a gun show and the cylinder locked up during inspection.

Do yourself a favor. Put down the Taurus and run away fast.

Edward429451 · June 20, 2002, 08:13 PM

Are all taurus guns so loose? I looked at a used 431 .44 special yesterday and it was loose as a goose. Figured it had been shot to death but now I'm not so sure.

I've been taught to check for lockup tightness by cocking the hammer, pulling the trigger and let it down past release notch only slightly, not hammer full forward, then continue holding trigger to rear and try to wiggle cylinder back n forth...

Am I doing it right?

Jim March · June 20, 2002, 08:53 PM

Edward: you have me scratching my head there. Mind you, there may be some good reason for the method you learned, maybe it's something specific to one type of wheelgun action?

My method checks cylinder lockup at the same position of action movement it'll be at when the gun goes bang. See also:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=57816

James K · June 20, 2002, 10:51 PM

Taurus QC has always been spotty. Every time I read about a new gun, the writer claims that the company has fixed things and the guns are now top quality. But when I check them at gun shops, they are still often not quite right and I still don't buy.

Taurus has sold a lot of guns to people who choose not to buy from S&W. I have no quarrel with making a political statement, but you may be making a serious sacrifice in quality to do so. For plinkers and game players, sacrificing quality to feel good may be OK. Serious gun carriers may have a different view.

Jim

part swede · June 22, 2002, 05:52 PM

Let's hear how the 608 test fires. My new 605 last year had several FTF and it had to go to the factory for timing repair, requiring only 11 days luckily.

BrianB · June 22, 2002, 06:13 PM

I've had the same problem with a Taurus .357. Can't remember what model number and can't find it in their online catalog. Snub nosed, ported, stainless steel six shot. Bad timing and a lot of FTF.

Kind of a POS, but when it does shoot, it's pretty accurate. Thinking of trying to find a decent gunsmith to give it a reliability tune up, but most I've talked to won't work on a Taurus. Anybody have any reccommendations there? I don't really trust a factory to fix something they couldn't get right in the first place.

Someone mentioned people buying Tauri instead of Smith and Wessons....but aren't they the same parent company now? Or did the new change of ownership at S&W not include Taurus? IMO, they're one and the same.

Edward429451 · June 22, 2002, 07:09 PM

Jim, thanks for the link/info. I printed it out for future reference. I suspect the guy who taught me to do it the way I described was on the right track but just not quite there yet. Your thread was much more detailed and concise. I have modified my procedure accordingly.

James K · June 22, 2002, 11:25 PM

FWIW, Taurus and S&W have been totally separate for many (30?) years. They were once owned by the same conglomerate, but were sold off to different buyers and parted ways.

Jim

BrianB · June 23, 2002, 05:00 AM

Strange. I must've gotten some totally off the wall info somewhere. Thanks for the clarification.

part swede · June 23, 2002, 01:24 PM

I agree that Taurus has shabby QC. I guess the gun is made in Brazil and serviced in Miami. Mine still had rings from test-firing when brand new. Maybe it was fired SA, while the timing problem occurred for me in DA.

June 20, 2002, 01:15 PM	#1
coppinger Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Posts: 27	New Taurus revolver timing/cylinder problem? Using the very informative procedures previously detailed by Mr. March I evaluated a brand new unfired Taurus 608 that I just purchased. This is what I found: Barrell/cylinder gap: .002 feeler gauge slid in easily, .003 would not go in at all. Timing: Using a Scorpion lithium flashlight pointed at the rear of the cylinder and looking looking down the (unloaded) barrell I was concerned to see a "black crescent-shaped sliver going from 12 o'clock clockwise to 6 o'clock on all eight cylinders. Three of the eight cylinders were a little more pronounced than others. It is enough to see that the cylinder is not alligned exactly. Forcing cone: Nice and round/clean Cylinder play: While depressing the trigger rearward with the hammer released forward, five of the eight were rock solid but three had a noticable movement to the point where you could make a noticable sound while moving the cylinder. There was no forward/aft movement of cylinder. Trigger: Using snap caps the trigger seemed fine but this is my first revolver and I don't have much to compare it with (other than the M10 .38 issued to me in the Army more than 10 years ago) Should I be concerned with the timing and cylinder play? I would really like to hear from someone. Thanks

June 20, 2002, 08:53 PM	#6
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Edward: you have me scratching my head there. Mind you, there may be some good reason for the method you learned, maybe it's something specific to one type of wheelgun action? My method checks cylinder lockup at the same position of action movement it'll be at when the gun goes bang. See also: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...threadid=57816 __________________ Jim March

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June 20, 2002, 03:31 PM	#2
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Were you doing the timing check with the hammer down but the trigger still held all the way to the rear ? If so....then it is a matter of degree. Very slight out of time is not that big a deal.......getting a gunsmith to check it with a field rod would be a good idea. Perfection is actually rare. But we do like em as close as is affordable. Also do the recheck with the light from both sides. Sometimes just the angle of the light will show what you are seeing. If the effect switches sides when you move the light to the other side...you ok. Sam

June 20, 2002, 04:43 PM	#3
coppinger Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Posts: 27	Yes, I had the trigger all the way back and let the hammer down all the way forward when I checked it. I'm taking it back tomorrow where I bought it to have it checked with a field rod as you suggested. I had put the snap caps with the springs in them when I first bought it to do some dry-fire sessions in both slow and rapid fire. I wonder if rotating the large cylinder around rapidly while dry-firing would do any damage when you consider the larger than normal weight mass the 8-cylinder is. Any ideas? Thanks.

June 20, 2002, 07:56 PM	#4
JimFromFL Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2001 Posts: 185	My first Taurus would splinter the lead from the bullets and the cooper from FMJ bullets. Many times I came home from the range with specs of blood on my face and neck. This was due to the cylinder being too loose. And this was on a brand new Taurus. Also checked out a brand new Tracker at a gun show and the cylinder locked up during inspection. Do yourself a favor. Put down the Taurus and run away fast.

June 20, 2002, 08:13 PM	#5
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Are all taurus guns so loose? I looked at a used 431 .44 special yesterday and it was loose as a goose. Figured it had been shot to death but now I'm not so sure. I've been taught to check for lockup tightness by cocking the hammer, pulling the trigger and let it down past release notch only slightly, not hammer full forward, then continue holding trigger to rear and try to wiggle cylinder back n forth... Am I doing it right?

June 20, 2002, 10:51 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Taurus QC has always been spotty. Every time I read about a new gun, the writer claims that the company has fixed things and the guns are now top quality. But when I check them at gun shops, they are still often not quite right and I still don't buy. Taurus has sold a lot of guns to people who choose not to buy from S&W. I have no quarrel with making a political statement, but you may be making a serious sacrifice in quality to do so. For plinkers and game players, sacrificing quality to feel good may be OK. Serious gun carriers may have a different view. Jim

June 22, 2002, 05:52 PM	#8
part swede Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 111	Let's hear how the 608 test fires. My new 605 last year had several FTF and it had to go to the factory for timing repair, requiring only 11 days luckily.

June 22, 2002, 06:13 PM	#9
BrianB Member Join Date: June 19, 2002 Posts: 36	I've had the same problem with a Taurus .357. Can't remember what model number and can't find it in their online catalog. Snub nosed, ported, stainless steel six shot. Bad timing and a lot of FTF. Kind of a POS, but when it does shoot, it's pretty accurate. Thinking of trying to find a decent gunsmith to give it a reliability tune up, but most I've talked to won't work on a Taurus. Anybody have any reccommendations there? I don't really trust a factory to fix something they couldn't get right in the first place. Someone mentioned people buying Tauri instead of Smith and Wessons....but aren't they the same parent company now? Or did the new change of ownership at S&W not include Taurus? IMO, they're one and the same.

June 22, 2002, 07:09 PM	#10
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Jim, thanks for the link/info. I printed it out for future reference. I suspect the guy who taught me to do it the way I described was on the right track but just not quite there yet. Your thread was much more detailed and concise. I have modified my procedure accordingly.

June 22, 2002, 11:25 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, Taurus and S&W have been totally separate for many (30?) years. They were once owned by the same conglomerate, but were sold off to different buyers and parted ways. Jim

June 23, 2002, 05:00 AM	#12
BrianB Member Join Date: June 19, 2002 Posts: 36	Strange. I must've gotten some totally off the wall info somewhere. Thanks for the clarification.

June 23, 2002, 01:24 PM	#13
part swede Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 111	I agree that Taurus has shabby QC. I guess the gun is made in Brazil and serviced in Miami. Mine still had rings from test-firing when brand new. Maybe it was fired SA, while the timing problem occurred for me in DA.