glueing metal together

cpileri · June 11, 2002, 07:11 AM

I am trying to "stick" together two steel cans (like a can of beans, empty of course) to make a phony barrel for a joke representation of a gun.
I would like it to be a quality job, however.

How should i connect them, end to end?

Solder? is there some type of glue I can use? would it help to "rough up" the edges of the can so that the solder/glue will stick better? etc.
I would like it to be airtight.

Any welders out there?

Thanks for all the help!

Carl

K80Geoff · June 11, 2002, 07:24 AM

Duct Tape!

Sisco · June 11, 2002, 08:19 AM

Epoxy?

40ozflatfoot · June 11, 2002, 08:42 AM

JB Weld. Available in most hardware stores.

Quote:

would it help to "rough up" the edges of the can so that the solder/glue will stick better? etc.

Most definitely. Clean the surfaces to be joined. Remove all dirt, residues, body oils, and so on before you apply the adhesive. Follow directions on the package.

An alternative that won't last as long is bathtub caulking compound. It's nothing more than silicone sealer/adhesive. Good for fillers, too.

If the cans you intend to use are common food cans, there will be a space between the two cans created when you butt them together at the seam. Fill that space with a piece of cardboard, glued in place with anything you have available.

Regardless of what type of adhesive you use, the most important step is cleaning the surfaces that will receive the adhesive. They must be absolutely clean, or the join will not be as good as it could be, and could fail at the most inconvenient time.

An obvious example is painting over grease. Ever tried that? Same idea with the adhesive.

Good Luck.

foghornl · June 11, 2002, 08:49 AM

Another ideea...
If someone you know has a "home wire welder" (TIG/MIG? ? ? )you could join those cans together with a nearly invisible weld

George Hill · June 11, 2002, 12:28 PM

Duct-Tape.

Betty · June 11, 2002, 01:12 PM

What 40ozflatfoot said in preparing the surface, but using F-26 glue (yellow tube, yellowy glue, sticks/dries fast, tough stuff).

Ledbetter · June 11, 2002, 01:20 PM

get a third can. cut it lengthwise. insert it into the other cans to hold them together. epoxy or jb weld the inside surfaces, tape or weight or clamp together until set.

Correia · June 11, 2002, 02:54 PM

Once upon a time I worked as a welder. Welding together thin aluminum cans is quite the challenge.

I never tried it with food cans, but if you could TIG together two soda cans, you were the Man.

C.R.Sam · June 11, 2002, 03:01 PM

40ozFlatfoot right.

Alternate adhesive.....liquid nails.

Sam

AyeAye · June 11, 2002, 03:05 PM

JB Weld or JB Quick
Clean cans w/ paint thinner or mineral spirts and rough up a little as mentioned above.

bastiat · June 11, 2002, 03:16 PM

Another JB weld Bump. Or the expoxy used to attach heads to golf clubs.

Greybeard · June 11, 2002, 04:32 PM

What others said about clean surfaces and possibly JB weld.

Have also found excellent adhesion out of "heavy duty" Liquid Nail. In or near caulking dept. at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. Instructions say to let dry and set for at least 24 hours. I would recommend even longer if pretty much encapsulated with low perm materials such as steel.

hksigwalther · June 11, 2002, 08:49 PM

HAHAHA. I use to be a Chemist at Macco Adhesives, manufacturer of the Liquid Nails brand.

If it were up to me though, I would choose a room temperature vulcanization (RVT) slicone adhesive and sealant. (e.g., GE's Silicone II)

Although the Liquid Nails (and other brands) solvent based adhesives and sealants would work well in this application, the silicones (not siliconized) adhere better to metal than the regular chaulks and seal just as well. They also generally have more tenacity and flex than the adhesives (but not too much flex to make the structure flimsy). The problems with RTV silicone are the very strong smell (vinegary acetic acid). difficulty in cleanup (gets everywhere, very stringy, not as easy to clean even with solvents), when dry it is extremely difficult (i.e., impossible) to remove, not paintable.

If you are adhering the cans in a butt joint, the problem will be how to keep the adhesive and tha cans in place while it dries. I would suggest taping the inside of 1 can, possibly run a bead of adhesive on the inside of the rim on the tape, attach the other can, run another bead on the seem between the cans.

The problems with almost all superglues (cyanoacrylates) are that they are relatively brittle and they don't seal very well. Any movement and flexing will crack them. Plus, if you are using an anaerobic, it'll have to have some force applied to it to get the free radical reaction to proceed. How much force and how long it will take will be trial and error. I think the best way to do this if you want to try is to taper one end of a can and flare out one end of the other can and mate those two surfaces with the adhesive between. Again, they don't seal very well.

Epoxies and polyurethanes are pretty good also but not as simple as an RTV and if you are using a two part adhesive, you have a time factor to worry about.

As mentioned, since it is metal surfaces that are being assembled, more drying time will be necessary even with solvent based material.

Jim March · June 11, 2002, 09:27 PM

JB Weld - "The Glue Of The Gods"

.

GREAT stuff

.

There's no way in hell you could "weld" cans together, but you COULD braze them. It would look crappy though (heat discoloration, for starters). Ditto soldering.

Use JB Weld

.

Cal4D4 · June 12, 2002, 01:37 AM

Since nobody mentioned it and you said the cans were steel and NOT aluminum, how about silver solder. Standard plumbers torch or MAPP gas. Materials all from any big hardware store. If prepped/cleaned properly would look good and may even contain the pressures of a tennis ball cannon type of thing.

cpileri · June 12, 2002, 04:18 AM

Cal4D4, sound like you've done this before. A tennis ball cannon? Bet that's a cool toy! Which brings me to a question I hadn't asked:

Seems like my choices are between JB Weld (have some), GE Silicone II, and silver solder/torch/MAPP gas (yeah, sure wife woud like that!). Of these, which would in fact be the "toughest" sealer and be able to hold together under rough play? or under pressure, if it comes to that? (hopefully t wont, but kids being kids...)

Carl

George Hill · June 12, 2002, 01:05 PM

This isn't for a mag body is it?

cpileri · June 12, 2002, 03:48 PM

What's a mag body? No really, I dont know what that is!
Unless you mean like making up my own extension for a hi-cap magazine...
No not this project. I like my mags to function and I am not that good!
BTW: ever were there 20-rd mags for a 10/22?
20 is the limit here in MD, so I was just wondering...
C-

11xray · June 12, 2002, 11:15 PM

I can't believe no one has mentioned: ACRAGLAS

Dave Haven · June 12, 2002, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by Correia

Quote:

Once upon a time I worked as a welder. Welding together thin aluminum cans is quite the challenge.

I never tried it with food cans, but if you could TIG together two soda cans, you were the Man.

You mean like this?

Hand_Rifle_Guy · June 13, 2002, 01:20 AM

Two little words, the secret of every Martha Stewart art project on the planet. You guys gotta talk to your wives more: HOT GLUE!.

Flexible. Easy Holds like silicone, but without the overlong drying time. Also, silicone has to have it's solvents evaporate to cure, so using it to bond metal surfaces of more than a square inch takes DAYS to dry. The same applies to Liquid Nails. Learned this building trade show exhibits. Lots of odd shapes, in odd materials to work with.

Agreed about the sub-diameter insert made of a can sliced length-wise to reduce the diameter by spiraling. Hot glue would work fine with that sort of arrangement. Lots of square inches of bond surface. If you need to take it apart, just heat it up again.

Theatre departments SWEAR by hot glue.

What, ain't none a yous done flower arrangin'? Home crafts? County-fair projects? Seasonal decorations, perhaps?

I swear, some days men are useless...

cpileri · June 13, 2002, 04:15 AM

Hey hand-rifle-guy... I mean MARTHA,
will it stand up to pressure/rough play?
Also, an aside, I am orig from San Mateo (just North of Palo Alto)- lived there for 18 years. How are things out there? Just dont vote for Davis or Perata. OK?
C-

hksigwalther · June 13, 2002, 01:23 PM

Ugh, hot melts.

The overwhelming majority of hot melt (glue gun-type) glues sold over the counter are somewhat rigid and don't adhere to metal as well as other adhesives when cooled. The best that I've seen (and tested) actually would work very well but are industrial grade and are not sold at retail. These are lower melt temp glues that are also a bit more flexible but stick to metal just as well as silicone.

Hot melts are great for putting together crafts and assemblies that do not see much loading when applied to metal parts. They do do a very good job on wood and cloth though. They are strictly attached to the surface through mechanical bonds. That is, the glue, when hot, seeps into the tiny crevices and holes of the surface to be bonded and latches on like hooks when cooled. The silicone will also attach chemically to the surfaces via the bonds by the silcon and silane adhesion promoter. True about the cure time though.

johnbt · June 14, 2002, 09:20 AM

I love this stuff. Comes in tube for about $5 and sticks to everything I've tried it on. I own an 86-year-old house that is held together by Phenoseal adhesive caulk. Well, the 14-inch-thick brick walls aren't, but the wooden gutters, galvanized gutters, slate and standing seam metal roofing, int. & ext. trim and tile are...go to the site and read the list of suggestions.

www.phenoseal.com/prod_doesit.html

John

(My $.02 on Liquid Nails - good for gluing interior paneling and plywood to studs and joists...then drive lots of nails or screws.)

June 11, 2002, 07:11 AM	#1
cpileri Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Peoples Republik of Maryland, Sister State to Kalifornia Posts: 619	glueing metal together I am trying to "stick" together two steel cans (like a can of beans, empty of course) to make a phony barrel for a joke representation of a gun. I would like it to be a quality job, however. How should i connect them, end to end? Solder? is there some type of glue I can use? would it help to "rough up" the edges of the can so that the solder/glue will stick better? etc. I would like it to be airtight. Any welders out there? Thanks for all the help! Carl __________________ ___________________________ "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt (1783)

June 11, 2002, 07:24 AM	#2
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,641	Duct Tape! __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

June 11, 2002, 08:19 AM	#3
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,559	Epoxy? __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

June 11, 2002, 12:28 PM	#6
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: Lapoint, Utah Posts: 11,477	Duct-Tape. __________________ MAD OGRE

June 11, 2002, 01:20 PM	#8
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,536	Another option get a third can. cut it lengthwise. insert it into the other cans to hold them together. epoxy or jb weld the inside surfaces, tape or weight or clamp together until set.

June 11, 2002, 08:49 AM	#5
foghornl Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,355	Another ideea... If someone you know has a "home wire welder" (TIG/MIG? ? ? )you could join those cans together with a nearly invisible weld

June 11, 2002, 01:12 PM	#7
Betty Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Location: southern U.S. Posts: 1,807	What 40ozflatfoot said in preparing the surface, but using F-26 glue (yellow tube, yellowy glue, sticks/dries fast, tough stuff).

June 11, 2002, 02:54 PM	#9
Correia Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: SLC Utah Posts: 3,741	Once upon a time I worked as a welder. Welding together thin aluminum cans is quite the challenge. I never tried it with food cans, but if you could TIG together two soda cans, you were the Man.

June 11, 2002, 03:01 PM	#10
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,864	40ozFlatfoot right. Alternate adhesive.....liquid nails. Sam

June 11, 2002, 03:05 PM	#11
AyeAye Member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: NW PA Posts: 99	JB Weld or JB Quick Clean cans w/ paint thinner or mineral spirts and rough up a little as mentioned above.

June 11, 2002, 03:16 PM	#12
bastiat Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2001 Posts: 1,772	Another JB weld Bump. Or the expoxy used to attach heads to golf clubs. __________________ Flashbunny.org - Pro-Freedom Propaganda Politically Incorrect & Pro-Gun Stuff To Buy

June 11, 2002, 04:32 PM	#13
Greybeard Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2002 Location: Denton County Texas Posts: 658	What others said about clean surfaces and possibly JB weld. Have also found excellent adhesion out of "heavy duty" Liquid Nail. In or near caulking dept. at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. Instructions say to let dry and set for at least 24 hours. I would recommend even longer if pretty much encapsulated with low perm materials such as steel. __________________ www.dentoncountysports.com A Private Palace for Pistol Proficiency

June 11, 2002, 08:49 PM	#14
hksigwalther Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: NE OH, USA Posts: 3,199	HAHAHA. I use to be a Chemist at Macco Adhesives, manufacturer of the Liquid Nails brand. If it were up to me though, I would choose a room temperature vulcanization (RVT) slicone adhesive and sealant. (e.g., GE's Silicone II) Although the Liquid Nails (and other brands) solvent based adhesives and sealants would work well in this application, the silicones (not siliconized) adhere better to metal than the regular chaulks and seal just as well. They also generally have more tenacity and flex than the adhesives (but not too much flex to make the structure flimsy). The problems with RTV silicone are the very strong smell (vinegary acetic acid). difficulty in cleanup (gets everywhere, very stringy, not as easy to clean even with solvents), when dry it is extremely difficult (i.e., impossible) to remove, not paintable. If you are adhering the cans in a butt joint, the problem will be how to keep the adhesive and tha cans in place while it dries. I would suggest taping the inside of 1 can, possibly run a bead of adhesive on the inside of the rim on the tape, attach the other can, run another bead on the seem between the cans. The problems with almost all superglues (cyanoacrylates) are that they are relatively brittle and they don't seal very well. Any movement and flexing will crack them. Plus, if you are using an anaerobic, it'll have to have some force applied to it to get the free radical reaction to proceed. How much force and how long it will take will be trial and error. I think the best way to do this if you want to try is to taper one end of a can and flare out one end of the other can and mate those two surfaces with the adhesive between. Again, they don't seal very well. Epoxies and polyurethanes are pretty good also but not as simple as an RTV and if you are using a two part adhesive, you have a time factor to worry about. As mentioned, since it is metal surfaces that are being assembled, more drying time will be necessary even with solvent based material. __________________ - Ron V.

June 11, 2002, 09:27 PM	#15
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,015	JB Weld - "The Glue Of The Gods" . GREAT stuff . There's no way in hell you could "weld" cans together, but you COULD braze them. It would look crappy though (heat discoloration, for starters). Ditto soldering. Use JB Weld . __________________ Jim March

June 12, 2002, 01:37 AM	#16
Cal4D4 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2001 Location: southern california Posts: 679	Since nobody mentioned it and you said the cans were steel and NOT aluminum, how about silver solder. Standard plumbers torch or MAPP gas. Materials all from any big hardware store. If prepped/cleaned properly would look good and may even contain the pressures of a tennis ball cannon type of thing.

June 12, 2002, 04:18 AM	#17
cpileri Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Peoples Republik of Maryland, Sister State to Kalifornia Posts: 619	Alot of great info here>>> Cal4D4, sound like you've done this before. A tennis ball cannon? Bet that's a cool toy! Which brings me to a question I hadn't asked: Seems like my choices are between JB Weld (have some), GE Silicone II, and silver solder/torch/MAPP gas (yeah, sure wife woud like that!). Of these, which would in fact be the "toughest" sealer and be able to hold together under rough play? or under pressure, if it comes to that? (hopefully t wont, but kids being kids...) Carl __________________ ___________________________ "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt (1783)

June 12, 2002, 01:05 PM	#18
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: Lapoint, Utah Posts: 11,477	This isn't for a mag body is it? __________________ MAD OGRE

June 12, 2002, 03:48 PM	#19
cpileri Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Peoples Republik of Maryland, Sister State to Kalifornia Posts: 619	??? What's a mag body? No really, I dont know what that is! Unless you mean like making up my own extension for a hi-cap magazine... No not this project. I like my mags to function and I am not that good! BTW: ever were there 20-rd mags for a 10/22? 20 is the limit here in MD, so I was just wondering... C- __________________ ___________________________ "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt (1783)

June 12, 2002, 11:15 PM	#20
11xray Member Join Date: February 3, 2000 Posts: 83	I can't believe no one has mentioned: ACRAGLAS __________________ Audemus jura nostra defendere

June 13, 2002, 01:20 AM	#22
Hand_Rifle_Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: Palo Alto, People's Republic of Kaliforny Posts: 724	Two little words, the secret of every Martha Stewart art project on the planet. You guys gotta talk to your wives more: HOT GLUE!. Flexible. Easy Holds like silicone, but without the overlong drying time. Also, silicone has to have it's solvents evaporate to cure, so using it to bond metal surfaces of more than a square inch takes DAYS to dry. The same applies to Liquid Nails. Learned this building trade show exhibits. Lots of odd shapes, in odd materials to work with. Agreed about the sub-diameter insert made of a can sliced length-wise to reduce the diameter by spiraling. Hot glue would work fine with that sort of arrangement. Lots of square inches of bond surface. If you need to take it apart, just heat it up again. Theatre departments SWEAR by hot glue. What, ain't none a yous done flower arrangin'? Home crafts? County-fair projects? Seasonal decorations, perhaps? I swear, some days men are useless... __________________ I find the world disappointing at best. I'm reminded of that every time the phone rings. "The telephone is an infernal device whereby any damnfool with a nickel can ruin your whole day."---Mark Twain H_R_G

June 13, 2002, 04:15 AM	#23
cpileri Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Peoples Republik of Maryland, Sister State to Kalifornia Posts: 619	Hot glue, the poor horse!! Hey hand-rifle-guy... I mean MARTHA, will it stand up to pressure/rough play? Also, an aside, I am orig from San Mateo (just North of Palo Alto)- lived there for 18 years. How are things out there? Just dont vote for Davis or Perata. OK? C- __________________ ___________________________ "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt (1783)

June 13, 2002, 01:23 PM	#24
hksigwalther Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: NE OH, USA Posts: 3,199	Ugh, hot melts. The overwhelming majority of hot melt (glue gun-type) glues sold over the counter are somewhat rigid and don't adhere to metal as well as other adhesives when cooled. The best that I've seen (and tested) actually would work very well but are industrial grade and are not sold at retail. These are lower melt temp glues that are also a bit more flexible but stick to metal just as well as silicone. Hot melts are great for putting together crafts and assemblies that do not see much loading when applied to metal parts. They do do a very good job on wood and cloth though. They are strictly attached to the surface through mechanical bonds. That is, the glue, when hot, seeps into the tiny crevices and holes of the surface to be bonded and latches on like hooks when cooled. The silicone will also attach chemically to the surfaces via the bonds by the silcon and silane adhesion promoter. True about the cure time though. __________________ - Ron V.

June 14, 2002, 09:20 AM	#25
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,005	Phenoseal adhesive caulk. I love this stuff. Comes in tube for about $5 and sticks to everything I've tried it on. I own an 86-year-old house that is held together by Phenoseal adhesive caulk. Well, the 14-inch-thick brick walls aren't, but the wooden gutters, galvanized gutters, slate and standing seam metal roofing, int. & ext. trim and tile are...go to the site and read the list of suggestions. www.phenoseal.com/prod_doesit.html John (My $.02 on Liquid Nails - good for gluing interior paneling and plywood to studs and joists...then drive lots of nails or screws.)