The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 14, 2002, 09:26 AM   #1
John DR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2002
Location: Michigan U.S.A.
Posts: 114
Why Is It This Way

Why is it that when the police have a law abiding citizen that just shot a bad guy with a record a mile long do they treat the good guy like he's a piece of sh*t? When there is a justified shooting of any kind of Coarse the shooter is going to be scared, feel bad for having to hurt someone.
__________________
John

Life NRA Member You Can Be Too


Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun!
Matter of fact, so has his nephew's golf club


A good gun will last a lifetime. A cheap gun will shorten your lifetime.

"We're in a society where we're making inanimate objects responsible for our stupidity"
John DR is offline  
Old May 14, 2002, 09:48 AM   #2
foghornl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,355
IMHO:

The inmates have run the asylum for far too long. The left-leaning masses believed if you just gave the bad guys what they want, no harm will come to you. Do not fight back. HA !

I found out as the geek-zoid in school, 30+ years ago, that the "don't fight back" crap will only get you busted up more often. After I flattened a couple of the bully boys, I got harrassed a whole lot less. I think I was able to win those situations by the sheer surprise factor. Not particularly big or strong, but quickness prevailed. The "punky boys" never expected me to come back at them.
foghornl is offline  
Old May 14, 2002, 09:56 AM   #3
jimsbowies
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2002
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 332
unfortunate

And it has been that way for some time....nearly 25 years ago in a mid-sized municipality, I was a uniformed officer....it was in my post Vietnam days. To make a short story shorter..here are the high points:

Warrants are out for a BG...something like 10 felony...including having broken into detective's home and stolen his issue and off-duty weapon.

We spot BG on the street....he immediately begins firing pistol at us when we approach.....nice guys that we are, we don't return fire since we'd have shot him either in the back, ass or bottom of his tennis shoes....

Full-blown search begins for him...he's on foot and has run into a light industrial/retail area....

Word goes out and "calvary" arrives including county sheriff deputies, highway patrol, etc....

Bad-luck deputy stumbles upon the BG and gets "gut shot" and comes within a skinny minute of dying....

Now we've got the location of BG....got him surrounded...order him to throw out his weapon and come out....

He opts to come out...firing.....BAD MISTAKE....now he's "graveyard dead".....not that mankind is missing anything but he's dead....very, very, very dead....

Of course, department has to investigate the shooting or for that matter, any firearms discharge....

But along comes the NAACP and lord-only knows what other kind of group alleging racism, unwarranted shooting, overreaction, etc.
So that means that state police and others must investigate...Despite the fact that this BG is 1) convicted felon..multiple...2) has been on burglary spree....a felony, 3) shoots at officers while he's in a residential area...4) gut shoots a deputy and 5) stands up firing wildly at officers.....

Of course, there are like a gazillion witnesses and the shooting is as clean as one can ever be but the officers involved are made to feel like second-class citizens during the entire process.....department places us under "gag" orders.....takes my weapon for ballistic comparisons. and I get it back months later all rusted and obviously stored in a plastic bag....

That's when I left the LE business...:barf:
jimsbowies is offline  
Old May 14, 2002, 03:54 PM   #4
Carry24x7
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 196
It all depends on where you live...
Carry24x7 is offline  
Old May 18, 2002, 07:50 PM   #5
SDavid
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2002
Posts: 7
Look at it this way: LEO arrives on the scene after a frantic 911 call, from some witness, that there were shots fired. Two civilians, one dead or dying, the other with a firearm, and only one explanation as to what transpired, the criminal is not going to spend his last breath saying that it was his own fault.

Sort it out at the station with your lawyer, forget about wherever you were going and never mind about the pint of ice cream that is melting on the front seat of your car. In their eyes you just shot a citizen and the safest place (for their sake) is to put you in the cruiser.

Just my $0.02
SDavid is offline  
Old May 20, 2002, 08:02 AM   #6
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
Based upon the above, it behooves one--RIGHT NOW!--to find the name and phone number of a pro-gun attorney and gain knowledge of his competency and his experience in self-defense cases. Keep this information in your billfold.

Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old May 20, 2002, 08:35 AM   #7
Coronach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 1999
Posts: 3,147
Depends on what you mean by "treat him like a piece of ****." When the cops show up on the scene all they know is one guy is dead and the one who made him that way is still at scene.

By the time anyone looks at the dead guy's record, the scene tape will have come down and the squads will have cleared.

Everyone says they're the good guy. I oughtta know, I've arrested plenty of 'good guys' already.

Mike
__________________
The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk."
"And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog

"True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
Coronach is offline  
Old May 20, 2002, 09:11 AM   #8
C.R.Sam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 29, 1999
Location: Dewey, AZ
Posts: 12,859
Mssrs Coronach, Eatman and SDavid covered it in the previous three posts.

Time of arrival of the responding officers is very delicate.

Don't even scratch your butt without permission from officer. Quick move to hip could be hazardous.

Sam
C.R.Sam is offline  
Old May 23, 2002, 04:33 PM   #9
Jack Carson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 13, 2001
Location: Central Oklahoma
Posts: 275
Bad guys shoot bad guys more often!

At least where I live, it's most often two felons in an argument over dope money or several gang bangers slinging lead for status.

The other point is that if you shoot someone and they are dead you have just committed homicide. It may be justifiable, but you have still committed a homicide. If the other person lives you have still used deadly force and (rightly) will be held accountable for your actions.

The police will (justifiably) treat you like any other person who has just shot someone. Do every thing they ask you to except give them a statement before you talk to your attorney. If they read you your rights they will ask if you understand them. The correct answer is "NO. I want to comply with you but I must have my attorney present to help explain this to me completely."

You will probably be taken to jail. It's not that bad. You will not be gang raped or beaten. In fact, you will most likely be placed in a cell by yourself. As the police gather more facts and relay them to the jailer you may even be offered refreshment. The tea will be weak and the coffee will be very strong. If they offer you something to eat, try to eat it just to be polite and make them feel better. The guy that brings it to you may have made a special effort on your behalf.

When your attorney arrives, tell him or her every thing you can remember and be totally honest. Here is my final bit of advice: If you can find an attorney who has worked as a prosecutor for the local/county DA, hire him or her!

One last thing: This is going to cost you a lot of money. Maybe even as much as a house or a college education for your kids. Accept it.
jack
__________________
Jack C.
Jack Carson is offline  
Old May 23, 2002, 09:32 PM   #10
Coronach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 1999
Posts: 3,147
Good post, good points. The only other thing that I would add is that if it were any easier on you, the good guy, it would also be easier on any bad guy who (hypothetically) killed a loved one of yours.

It would TRULY suck to find out that the guy who shot your father got a pass because he said that your dad assaulted him and it was self defense, and the cops bought it without question.

This is not to say that I agree with every anti-self-defense action, law or court case that comes down the pike...just with the need for the police to do a thorough investigation in every instance that it happens.

Mike
__________________
The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk."
"And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog

"True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
Coronach is offline  
Old May 24, 2002, 12:26 PM   #11
IamNOTaNUT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2000
Location: Michigan
Posts: 477
JohnDR -

Did you have any particular incident in mind?
__________________
IamNOTaNUT

I didn't do it, but I thought about it. Next time I might.

NRA
IamNOTaNUT is offline  
Old May 24, 2002, 12:39 PM   #12
sideshow
Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 94
Quote:
As for your Rights, per the Miranda Decision, might not be a bad idea if you remember them. Hint.
Yes, be quiet and don't say one world until you get a lawyer. Don't want to say anything stupid .
sideshow is offline  
Old May 25, 2002, 06:40 AM   #13
shy_man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2001
Location: Valenzuela City, Metro Manila, Philippines
Posts: 366
I think it is common for a Police officer to investigate of any crime or incident happened especially if about a shootout causing death to a BG or Not. And also even to false calls to them.

I am also also a law abiding cizen in my community and I have CCW and have several guns with license to possess only. One damn community officer reported me to the SWAT team of having firearms, the SWAT team responded without further investigation who I am, or am I carrying/possessing legally. In short, the SWAT team are in full battle gear like raiding a place that has an ongoing shootout. I let the police came in to my home, talk to them and things went well, but then, they still invited me to to the precint to talk to the their commander. Thereon, the crooked investigator tried to make fool of me charging me of such felony. Until we exchange legal words and came to know each other. But still, I gave them some amount for coffee and we became friends (not real friends but we parted like friends).

In my country there is the saying that "Don't give so much trust to an LE" but make friends with them. As of now, it is so hard to bring back the trust of the populace to the police force, because few bad eggs will destroy so much the good name and integrity of the Department.
shy_man is offline  
Old May 25, 2002, 01:52 PM   #14
Eric Larsen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2001
Location: Bountiful....Ut.
Posts: 3,226
I agree with all of you...totally. But the LEO's will have to back this one up...things are not always as they appear. If you go to a shooting of anykind..you have to be careful.
Last month in UT, a man was shot by his wife, the supposed victim of "domestic violence"...the officers thought something was fishy with the whole thing...she didnt have a mark on her and had never called in to report anything, ever. They were both legal CCW permit holders. The neighbors reported they had heard argueing for a while but nothing beyond that. When the truth came out...she plainly and simply "shot him point blank" for
the insurance money..and they didnt get along anymore.
If I ever have to use my weapons on anyone, I will anticipate being treated like a murder suspect and let the facts speak for themselves. Thats just the way it is most places.

Shoot well
__________________
If they dont know you have a gun.....then I did alright!

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice......Rush
Eric Larsen is offline  
Old May 25, 2002, 09:34 PM   #15
Coronach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 1999
Posts: 3,147
Things are often not as they appear.

mike
__________________
The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk."
"And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog

"True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
Coronach is offline  
Old May 26, 2002, 12:31 AM   #16
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Waynesboro, Georgia, USA
Posts: 2,361
Within a hundred and fifty miles of Augusta, the lawyers you want is the firm of Garrett and Guilliard in Augusta...

They were the choice of the other area lawyers when polled by a local newspaper re: What lawyer(s) would you want to represent you on a criminal charge? They ain't cheap by any means but they're pro gun. They represented me when I was caught carrying without permission.
Byron Quick is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09940 seconds with 7 queries