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Old July 6, 2000, 11:09 AM   #1
MountainGun44
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My Remington 1100 with a 24" rifled barrel shooting 3" Magnum 1 ounce slugs at 1760 fps...SCARY!

Shooting 1 gallon jugs of water at about 50 yards- vaporizes them.

Kicks like a mule.

Has anyone used slugs for hunting? Are they as devastating as they seem to be?

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Old July 6, 2000, 05:07 PM   #2
Ledbetter
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Good question. The ones I have fired seemed more like artillery than small arms. Went through sheet metal (computer frame and case) like butter at 25 yds. Excellent recoil and report, as noted above.

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Old July 6, 2000, 05:10 PM   #3
Hueco
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Well, that sounds pretty darned closed to the 45-70 ballistics! So, pretty much whatever you read on the 45-70, just think of your gun instead.
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Old July 6, 2000, 07:23 PM   #4
Jeff, CA
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Took a tactical shotgun class a while back. The poor guy next to me had bought magnum slugs instead of low recoil (didn't read the label). You could see the four-foot diameter fireball in broad daylight.
 
Old July 6, 2000, 07:35 PM   #5
Dave McC
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All the 3 inch slugs do that the 2 3/4 inch ones won;t is go through your money faster.No der on Earth can tell the difference when hit between the two, and neither can the hunter.

MD deer run big in the farm land I hunt. Use of Forster type slugs,properly placed, means short blood trails Ray Charles could follow.

Took a yearling doe year before last on a herd control hunt,centerpunched the shoulder at about 35 yards and watched tissue explode outwards. Doe made 30 yards...

Broadside shots usually have exit wounds.

Lots of old threads here about this, a little browsing can give lots of input...
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Old July 6, 2000, 09:14 PM   #6
Bennett Richards
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Actually the 12G 3" slug makes a 45-70 look like a peashooter. Balistically speaking of course.

Ben
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Old July 7, 2000, 07:52 AM   #7
Dave McC
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Ballistics, Schmallistics, my friend. Adding 100 FPS to a slug doesn't turn it into the werewolf of lead prjectiles.

Off the top of my head,the 2 3/4", 1 1/8 oz Brenneke hits the air at about 1450 FPS, the 3 inch Testosterone Special under 1600. Shooting either w/o proper form/preparation can build oneheckuva flinch in a few shots, and the 3 inch costs more.

For those trying to turn slug guns into 150 yard weapons,good luck. I'll still fill the freezer each and very fall taking 50 yd and less shots.

BTW, the Brenneke in 20 ga may be one of the alltime best deer loads for ranges under 75 yards.
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Old July 7, 2000, 10:27 AM   #8
Coinneach
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Last weekend, I decided to sight in my Mossberg w/ 24" barrel for Remington punkinballs.

Ouch. Thank g-d it only took 2 3-shot groups to get it dialed.

After sighting, I took a 1-gallon jug and hit it with one of these Mini-Mjollnirs from 25 feet. Shower time!

I can't wait for fall.
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Old July 7, 2000, 11:21 AM   #9
Bam Bam
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Don't forget, Energy = 1/2 Mass x Velocity^2

So what is the mass of a slug compared to the 45-70 bullet? Also the transfer of energy from the projectile to the target will depend on the elasticity of the collision.
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Old July 7, 2000, 12:54 PM   #10
Coinneach
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Bam Bam, most shotgun slugs are 1 oz (about 430 grains). I use 400gr bullets in my .45-70. The slugs chrono at about 1400fps, the bullets at about 1700.

I call it a wash.
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Old July 7, 2000, 05:28 PM   #11
Futo Inu
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ledbetter:
Good question. Excellent recoil and report, as noted above.[/quote]

Not strong, powerful, or unpleasant recoil, but "excellent" recoil and report. I like that

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Old July 8, 2000, 05:12 AM   #12
Dave McC
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Bam Bam, while I've owned/liked a couple of 45-70s, I never killed a deer with one. In theory, the better sectional density of the 405 gr Govt cartridge will give better penetration,but I doubt there's be a visible difference in effect on deer sized game.

BTW, while we complain about shotgun recoil, for real thrills try a 6 1/2 lb 45-70 carbine.Sold that puppy off fast....
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Old July 8, 2000, 07:37 AM   #13
bergie
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Ah, but what about Hornady's new H2K Heavy Mag slug load, 12 gauge 2 3/4", 300 gr. XTP ???
Rated at 2,000 fps and 2,664 ft.lbs. (out of a 30" tube) it will still do 1,930 fps out of a 24". Their reported trajectory (again out of their 30" test tube) with a 150 yd. zero is 2.5 high at 100 and 6.5 low at 200. 150 yds. is a dead on hold and with good range estimation, 200 should be no problem. Hornady's load data for the 45-70 in Marlin lever actions (not to be used in trapdoors or replicas, pressures are too high) only show 2 loads that will get their 300 grain bullets up to 2100 fps.
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Old July 8, 2000, 08:34 AM   #14
Turk
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MountianGun44,

I personally hunt deer with a handgun but I’ve seen a lot of deer taken with a 12 Ga. Slug and it’s an excellent game harvester if kept at a sensible range.

You hear a lot of talk about the slug not being accurate. I personally think a lot of misses relates to hunters not being able to judge distances taking too long of shots. A couple years ago I had a guy tell me he took a long shot 100 yards. I knew the area where he took the shot and it had to be close to 200 yards distance.


I personally believe 100 yards is the longest shot that should be taken with a slug and then only if the right combinations exists, accuracy of the gun, slug type, resting the gun and the deer not moving.

The big slug isn’t the magic bullet? A hit on a white tail isn’t as spectacular as hitting a water jug. The exit wounds I’ve seen aren’t much bigger (if at all) as the slug size.

Have a good day.

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Old July 9, 2000, 05:16 AM   #15
Dave McC
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Bergie, I've a problem with the load you cite. Two problems, actually...

1, shotgun areas are those here in Md where the population density means the stuff that'll go miles and miles after a miss could end up in somebody. Shotguns are used because the rainbow trajectory means folks over there are safe. With our population increasing, this could happen more and more, each tragedy bringing us a bit closer to hunting being banned.

2,I've taken deer with rifles up to an estimated 275-325 yards,and used to shoot 1000 yd matches in the Military. Most hunters MISS at 200,regardless of equipment,under field conditions and I see this "advance" in ammo doing just what you say, making people think they can hit at those distances.

The 15-20 deer I've taken with shotguns here in Md were hit within 60 yards at most, and fell within that distance almost invariably.
For real thrills, try taking them at 20 yards.

If a hunter has skills that enables him/her to get close, whether or not his weapon can hit as 150 yard becomes rather moot. Also, technology can never substitute for expertise, tho some people keep trying...
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Old July 9, 2000, 08:27 AM   #16
Turk
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Dave McC,

Good post. I totally agree a lot of people are looking for that magic bullet.

Turk
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Old July 9, 2000, 09:53 AM   #17
Dave McC
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Thanks, Turk.

Some deer autopsy results. All shots taken under 50 yards, possibly under 40. Closest maybe 15.

6 point yearling buck-Brenneke, shot R chest as it approached. Shot again as it ran on by, 2 ribs behind shoulder crease.2nd shot exit wound, first round turned up in read of abdomen.20 yards. Dressed out at around 100 lbs.

Big doe(dressed around 135), Winchester Forster type,broadside shot. Short trail, Exit wound big enough to stick three fingers into.

Button buck, taken out of mercy, someone had shot a hoof off. Win slug,entry at L shoulder angling back, slug ending up in R Hip. 10 yards, dressed about 75. Call it 2 ft+ penetration.

Mature doe,centerpunched shoulder on broadside shot,heart destroyed,lungs shredded, 30-40 yrd trail.Brenneke.Exit wound after breaking both shoulders.20 yards, maybe.

Witnessed this. 20 ga Brenneke on mature but not big buck, probably 2 /12 yrs old. Hit high center shoulder, shredded lungs, nicked spine, DRT. Exit wound seemed about one inch in diameter.

Finished wounded young doe9not fawn) on Herd Control hunt after is was double lunged with sabots. As it ran by at 25 yards,led too far and hit the neck w/ a Win slug 6 inches in front of the chest. One cartwheel,and stopped. Not as much neck meat for grinding as usual.


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Old July 9, 2000, 01:51 PM   #18
crow slayer
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"For real thrills, try taking them at 20 yards."

For real thrills, try taking them at 1.5
feet! I still tease dad about how I almost got him with that 8 pointer. It was the only time I've seen my dad get the shakes!!!
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Old July 10, 2000, 06:45 AM   #19
Dave McC
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Don't tease us, CS. How about the whole story?
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Old July 10, 2000, 10:02 AM   #20
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The whole story goes something like this:
My dad and I were deer hunting, along with some other family members. We set up to drive a long timbered and I was a driver. I started walking down the ditch and hadn't gong 50 yards when I jumped an 8 point buck. It took off like a bat out of h*ll, and since I don't like shooting at running deer I let him go.
Meanwhile, at the other end of the draw my dad, a stander, was trying to just where he was wanted to stand. Looking down he noticed He was standing on a deer trail. Looking up he noticed the eight pointer coming right at him on a dead run. Pulling up his shotgun and shooting from the hip(he didn't have time to raise it to his shoulder) he shot the deer from 1.5 feet as he jumped out of the way.
When I reached him 15 min later he was shaking like a leaf and mumbling something about a blood trail. We found the deer 40 yds down the trail.
BTW my dad's rifled M37 Ithaca is the most accurate gun in the group, (clover-leafs at 100 yards, but he has(an probobly always will) the closest kill.

P.S. I still tease him about how I almost pulled off the perfect murder!!!

Good day!
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Old July 11, 2000, 07:46 AM   #21
Dave McC
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Good story. My closest might have been 15 feet, but it took a couple of shots to stop it and I'm unsure which one did the trick. Lots younger then...
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Old July 11, 2000, 10:13 AM   #22
Oleg Volk
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The more I practice with rifles and shotgun, the more I recognize my limitations. I would have to say (for a target size of a grocery bag), 50 yards for a bead sight shotgun or 100 yards for a peep sight rifle is my range limit...and that's with support. Off-hand, cut that distance in two.

Does this mean that the rest of the world is steadier than I am or that they get lucky or thatthey are lying about the range or ?
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Old July 11, 2000, 12:06 PM   #23
Dave McC
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Maybe both, Oleg(G). But, with practice and training, you'll see better results.
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