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Old April 22, 2002, 09:48 AM   #1
Carbon_15
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Friend had to use his H.D. shotgun

It happened a few monthes ago, but the trial has come and gone, so I guess its ok to talk about it. And no, this isnt one of those "friend" wink-wink situations
My friend is 21 years old and was spending the week with his mother while his dad was away on Nation Guard duty. His mom had went to her highschool reunion that evening and she desided to invite a few of her girlfriends back for coffee and chit-chat. One of her friends husband, who they also went to school with, taged along. Evedintly, he had consumed a few adult beverages along the way and was becoming quite anoying. He was quckly becomeing very beligerant and started makeing druken advances towards the 7 or so women who were trying to catch up on old times. They asked him and his wife to leave. My friend was upstairs after returing from a little night trail rideing on the 4 wheeler (a nice benifit of living outside the city limits) and still had his Glock 29 straped on IWB. We all know how loud it can get when old friends get together, so he had tuned out the festivites downstairs. The resulting stillness and silence, when the drunk violently pushed one of the women down caught his attention. He stared to head downstairs to investigate, but then he heard the man say that he was going to go to his truck and get his 30-30 and kill everyone there. Everyone started screaming histaricly ofcouce, but my friend could make out the drunks wife saying something about the man really having a gun in his truck. My friend grabed a pump shotgun from his fathers gun cabinet and began loading a full compliment of Brenneki 2 3/4 slugs as he made his way down the stairs. Shucking a shell into the chamber he ordered the man to halt (who was about half way out the back door and 18 feet away). The man stoped in his tracks and slowly turned around with his hands raised to about shoulder height. He started sayig things like "its cool, I was just kidding, It all right, we were just playing around"..etc. My friends mom had went into the other room to call 911 and when she came back in and saw the shotgun (being a typical gun fearing liberal clintonite) she screamed. The sound of his mothers scream brought an instinctive glance. He turned his eyes back to the drunk just in time to see him rushing at him. The man grabed the barrel and forced the muzzle to the floor. My buddy is 5-9 and about 170lbs, the drunk is about 6-4 and 220lbs. My friend said he could see the man trying to get to the trigger guard to make the gun discharge and was trying to deside if he could let go of the shotgun and get to his Glock into action before the man could shoot anyone. He didnt think he could, but the much larger drunk was winning the fight for the shotgun. After a total of about 15 seconds of struggeling, the drunk managed to get ahold of the trigger and the shotgun discharged. The drunk loosend his grip under the recoil and heat, just long enough for my friend to give him a solid butt stroke to the chin. He quickly safetied the shotgun with its now empty chamber and physicly held the attacker face down on the floor. Being a much smaller and sobber man, this naturaly took a few blows to the back of the head and kidneys It took the cavilry almost 20 min. to arive (the only bad thing about living outside the city limits). no charges were filed against my friend (even though the BG was missing a few teeth) and the responding officer didnt even take the guns. The perp is now spending a few years in jail for agrivated assault.
AS for the airant Brenneki, it struck the couch about 6 inches from where one of the women was sitting (cowering would be more accurate). He said he wasnt sure why he grabed the slugs instead of bukcshot, but evidently it was a good thing he did. The slug passed through the couch, through the wood paneled wall behind it (missed the studs), Through the back of a rocking chair on the other side of the wall, penetrated the carpet and padding, and skid about 15 feet between the carpet and subfloor before stoping under the baseboard in the far wall.
I dont really see how he could have done anything different. It was a pretty hairy situation, but noone was hurt and the bad guy went to jail, so I guess it turned out pretty ideal. His mother is still mortified of guns and thinks only cops and soldiers should have them. It still amazes me that her fearfull scream was at the sight of a defensive gun in frineldy hands..and escalated a hold-at-gunpoint situation ito a wresteling match. Evedintly she thinks the drunk thug would have turned his in if they were banned.
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Old April 22, 2002, 10:18 AM   #2
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Boy, I'm glad that worked out without anybody getting seriously hurt.

Whether intentional or not, the slugs were a good idea. Think about it. You're going up against a 30-30 in a house full of bystanders, out in the middle of nowhere.

If the guy had got to his pickup, he may have used it for cover while firing into the house. In the case of what actually happened in the house the spread of buckshot may have hit innocents. Out in the boonies, there's not much chance of hitting a neighbor's house.

Regarding the mother, most of the anti's I've known think that violence will never happen to them. It's a distant story on the news or in the paper. She probably screamed because that fantasy was shattered at the sight of her son merely tenths of seconds away from possibly killing someone and at the reality of violence happening in her house. The sad thing is, she will probably iconify the gun as a symbol of that violence rather than what prevented it.
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Old April 22, 2002, 10:37 AM   #3
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Kid did well. He can be forgiven for the attention drift.

Liberals like his mother get good folks killed.

Thanks Carbon

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Old April 22, 2002, 11:59 AM   #4
Carbon_15
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You know, I never thought about it untill now, but I'm the one who really introduced him to guns. He's only about 3 years my junior, but its enough age difference that I was legal to buy guns on my own before him. with his mother, being horrified of guns, his only experiance with guns as a youngster was pearing curiously through the gun cabinet glass doors. He had an intinse interest in guns and read just about every gun rag out there, like most male kids, but was never allowed to go shooting. When I turned 18 and moved out on my, I began collecting guns more seriously and we started going to the range together. He quickly became a good shot and always had very safe gun handling skills. His mother always hated the fact that I "got him in to guns". And she always acted like our range trips were an accident waiting to happen. I mean, a cased rifle was enough to make her draw up and leave the room. We have learned alot from each other when it comes to shooting, and haveing friendly competition with you at the range does wonders for your group size and shooting habits. Fliers are one thing when your by yourself, but shoot one bad groups when you have someone with you and you'll never live it down.
I'm sure he would have started shooting on his own, but its nice to think that maybe something I tought him at the range or that we talked about in our hypothetical gab sesions might have helped at the moment of truth.
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Old April 22, 2002, 03:19 PM   #5
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Thank God it came out alright. Shame his mom is the way she is. Good thing you introduced him to guns...
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Old April 22, 2002, 03:36 PM   #6
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Why does it seem that those who need protection the most are the ones who are afraid of the instruments of protection?
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Old April 26, 2002, 01:32 AM   #7
elper
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Wait, I don't get it. Isn't this one of those situations in which not having a gun would be better? After all, your friend basically got tackled and lost control of his weapon.

Hate to say it, but a big stick would have made a far better defense weapon in this situation.
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Old April 26, 2002, 09:54 AM   #8
bastiat
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Quote:
Wait, I don't get it. Isn't this one of those situations in which not having a gun would be better? After all, your friend basically got tackled and lost control of his weapon.
He lost control of his weapon because he was distracted by his mother's scream. That would have happened if he had a big stick as well.

Yet another instance of a panicky scream doing more harm than good.
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Old April 26, 2002, 01:38 PM   #9
coz
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Lucky Lucky Lucky.

He should have stayed farther back since he had a long barreled weapon.

Hollywood probably trained him to get in really close as it's more threatening......

Of course, as we know, you're better off giving a double tap or better while the perp is running full blast buffer with a pistol. With a long gun you could shoot from quite a distance.

Of course, if the kid took my advice the perp would have looked like the sofa...nice big hole somewhere.......

Lucky Lucky Lucky
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Old April 26, 2002, 03:17 PM   #10
Carbon_15
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He was about 18 feet away when it all started. That about as far away he could have gotten without backing out of the room.
hind sight is alwasy 20-20, and I'm sure if he knew he was going to get bum-rushed, he would have armed himself with a set of brass knuckles and left the long gun in the cabinet. I think he made the right decision (seeing as how it was a split second decision going from relaxing on the couch in another room, to holding a violent drunk at gun-point in a mater of seconds, and not a tactical call-out situation) Since he may have had to go against a subject with a rifle baracaded behind his truck at extended ranges.
I challenge any of you not to instinctively turn when you hear your mother scream..especialy in a situation like this.
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Old April 26, 2002, 03:40 PM   #11
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He did good. Doesn't mean he didn't get lucky, too

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Old April 26, 2002, 03:41 PM   #12
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When I set my HD shotgun up, I think I'm going to coat the barrel in epoxy and then roll it in broken glass. Make the perp think twice about a grab.

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Old April 26, 2002, 10:14 PM   #13
Carbon_15
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agreed Gabe.
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Old May 1, 2002, 12:07 AM   #14
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"Some body trying to disarm you is a homicide in progress." - Evan Marshall
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Old May 1, 2002, 02:42 PM   #15
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revenge threat?

When the guy gets out of the pokey he might come after your buddy or mom. He better put the guy down for good if he sees him again in a hostile sittep. The guy is a sexual abuser waiting to happen, the sickest kind!
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Old May 1, 2002, 03:47 PM   #16
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glad no one was killed, really luck no one was shot.you did very well,buttstocks are a usefull weapons.
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Old May 1, 2002, 05:45 PM   #17
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When I set my HD shotgun up, I think I'm going to coat the barrel in epoxy and then roll it in broken glass. Make the perp think twice about a grab.

Good idea!
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Old May 1, 2002, 08:03 PM   #18
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Glad things worked out for the best, but they went south in a hurry it sounds like.

For those of you who haven't considered this, generally speaking there is little reason to get to close to the bad guy and you should probably avoid doing so if at all possible. The hero of this story was too close to the bad guy and he certainly did not need to be that close to make his point with a shotgun.

What is too close? Too close is any distance in which the bad guy can cover in order to reach you or your weapon before you have time to react properly. The 21 foot or Tueller distance came up for very similar reasons. A guy with a knife was shot by Tueller at 21 feet or thereabouts and the case came up as to whether or not Tueller was in danger. It was shown that a person with a knife can cover that amount of ground in about the same amount of time it would take an officer to draw and fire his weapon, about 1.5 seconds.

Having a big gun is great, but distance from the bad guy will provide an extra measure of security to at least give you more time to react.

As for the officer not taking the guns, he has no reason to take them as nobody was shot and the Hero was not charged with a crime.
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Old May 3, 2002, 01:41 PM   #19
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Distance is your friend - Yaeger/Stanford

A HD Shotgun should have a properly set up sling. Helps with retention.

Wrestling over a shotgun has two options (courtesy of Gabe Suarez):

a) pull back sharply to bring bore in line with part of the BG and blast him off the end of it.

b) (especially if shotgun is empty) let go of shotgun and let the BG have it with the pistol. Then retrieve shotgun - BG won't be wanting it.
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Old May 3, 2002, 08:10 PM   #20
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the guy went to his gun and was about to shoot everybody all because his feelings got hurt.
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Old May 5, 2002, 02:02 PM   #21
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He may have made a mistake, or he may not have had a choice about distance. Inside a house, you're either in the room or you ain't. It might have been close enough quarters to force this. Remember, this was NOT the Tueller drill because the Tueller exercise allows/assumes the shooter has his eyes and attention on the knifer throughout. This guy could have closed as much as twice the 21 feet in the drill--that would be roughly 40 feet, wider than any room in my house.

And as Erick points out, if he'd had a stick he probably wouldn't have gotten rushed in the first place--with no threat at a distance, the attacker could have just bolted for his truck and rifle. He did great!
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