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Old March 15, 2000, 07:58 PM   #1
Oleg Volk
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Just trying to decide if my Winchester 1300 needs a sling. I'd need to drill the stock and replace the magazine cap (total cost $40+ plus sweat) so I think I'd ask first.

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Old March 15, 2000, 08:39 PM   #2
Clogbert
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Everything I've heard about slings leads me to say no for a home defense shotgun. Too many instructors say the sling is one more thing that could get snagged on furniture, doorknobs, body parts, whatever, at the worst possible time. Sling is handy for carrying the shotgun over fences, but in the house, you'll be carrying it at the ready.
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Old March 15, 2000, 08:40 PM   #3
ModIMark0
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I would say that you would not want to have a sling on a home defense shotgun. The sling is something to add the probability of Murphy's law occuring in having to get it out and move around in a room or home while not having the sling catch or snag on things. Some slings (like those set up like Heckler and Koch rifles) are less likely to snag when secured close to the shotgun, but would be unlikely to be used in the home in a defensive situation.
It might be a nice option to have the stock drilled for a swivel mount and the mag tube cap replaced with a tapped or new swivel mount installed if you foresee a time when you may want to carry it slung. But if the shotgun is going to be used for home defense as the primary or a grab-quick gun, keep the sling, and probably the sling swivels off the shotgun.
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Old March 15, 2000, 08:43 PM   #4
Oleg Volk
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Mark,

the very reason why I asked is that I saw your own shotgun with a sling on it
BTW, email me and explain what the message from earlier today was, ok.
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Old March 15, 2000, 09:18 PM   #5
David Roberson
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I have a different perspective. I live way out in the country and keep a sling on my 870. I figure that the chances of me needing to take the gun outside (say, if the dogs are going wild about something, or someone drives up our 1/4 mile driveway at night and stops -- real-life examples) are probably as good or better than the chances of me needing the shotgun inside. If I take it outside, I want to be able to sling it if I have to have hands free for something else (tending to an injured dog, etc.).
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Old March 15, 2000, 09:20 PM   #6
Al Thompson
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For a dedicated HD gun, nope..

Hunting (other than birds) maybe.

Keep the bells and whistles to a minimum on the HD guns. If you anticipate needing to have one slung for carrying purposes, allow me to suggest your M1..

Giz
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Old March 15, 2000, 09:39 PM   #7
Schmit
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OK I've got a Beretta 1201 w/GPS mods. I've also got a sling on it but it is "Tactical" sling. One that I "loop" under my left arm and over my right shoulder. When "Clearing" the sling helps secure the weapon into my right shoulder and stabilize it (Comp/Ching Sling concept). I can also "drop" the weapon wherein it falls across my stomach @ about a 45 degree angle(bbl pointing down towards the ground) if I need use my hands or transition to handgun. I would not loose control of the gun.

I don't feel that having this type of sling is a liability even if using it in close quarters such as HD.

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Old March 16, 2000, 01:39 AM   #8
gunmart
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a sling for a long gun is like a holster for a pistol.what are you going to do with it if you run it dry and have to trasition to a pistol?no sling and all you can do is ground it.the sling can also be used covertly to answer the door in the african carry position.someone who really knows about this can dismount a shotgun from the african carry position.(muzzle down weak side)in about 1.5 seconds and make the hits.it can also come in handy if the threat becomes non leathal and you have to switch to plan b such as verbal commands or restraint techniqes.as to the sling catching on stuff around the house.clint smith at thunder ranch suggest mearly takeing the sling at the rear with the support hand and resting it under the forearm.it works for him and it works for me. see ya ed
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Old March 16, 2000, 02:31 AM   #9
gunmart
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oh ok big shot now your going to dis my grammer. see ya ed

[This message has been edited by gunmart (edited March 16, 2000).]
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Old March 16, 2000, 06:31 AM   #10
Dave McC
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Maybe a sling is to a HD shotgun as a holster is to a handgun, but do you keep your handgun holstered in a HD scenario?

The HD 870 here has no sling on it, tho it does have swivel studs. The deer hunting 870 wears a sling during the season, and not the rest of the year, when it serves as backup.

As for transitioning to a handgun, I'd just drop the empty thing,since it is of no possible use at a crucial moment. However, if 9 or 10 shotguns rounds do not resolve the crisis, probably a magazine full of 45s won't either.
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Old March 16, 2000, 01:43 PM   #11
General Tso
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For a tactical situation I'd say yes, for a HD situation not necesarily. I don't have one on my 870 and don't really see the need.

As to the transitioning form shotgun to pistol, I just don't see the liklihood in a HD scenario. Not saying it can't happen but it doesn't seem probable to me. Heck, if I end up with an intruder in the house more likely than not I'll be running around in my underwear with the 870 and a bandolier of ammo if I'm lucky! The odd's of actually having a pistol on me to transition to is pretty low. I don't sleep with a gunbelt on generally

Even assuming you do have a pistol to transition to in the house, just drop the longarm to the floor if you have to. You're in your house after all, it's not like you can't recover it later.

HD is a differnt ball game than an offensive tactical mission. All you're doing is saving your butt and that of your family. You shouldn't be prowling around looking for the perp if you can help it. Hole up, call the PD and blast anything that comes near you! No need for a sling in a situation like that
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Old March 16, 2000, 06:22 PM   #12
Rosco Benson
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While the home-defense shotgun should have the capability of having a sling attached, there should be no sling on a dedicated home defense shotgun. Murphy will ensure that it snags on doorknobs and so forth.

A sling IS needed for safe range use and can be very handy for hunting or other activities out in the open.

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Old March 16, 2000, 07:31 PM   #13
SEAN WILLIAMS
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Yes,get the sling(every long arm needs a sling, every side arm needs a holster), practice HD & weapon retention scenario's. I think the real question is what/which type of sling to purchase.
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Old March 16, 2000, 07:55 PM   #14
Al Thompson
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Maybe the difference is the concept of a HD shotgun. For me, in my situation, the HD guns (yes plural) are "static". Both are located close to a phone and my threat analysis is that there I will "probably" stay.

If I have some warning that a "move and shoot" two way LFX is forthcoming, it's me, the handgun on the hip and the Car-15 bailing into the yard. (and probably into my neighbors yard)

I do think that possibility is very remote unless some of Long Path's mutant zombie bikers show up.

So - both my serious social guns are as snag free as I can make'em. I do have Sidesaddles installed and only a couple of rounds in the tube.

Giz
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Old March 16, 2000, 08:08 PM   #15
Clogbert
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General Tso - pardon me, but I gotta ask ... do you wear boxers or briefs? I'm still chuckling about your depiction of your home defense scenario, though I agree 100%. Actually, an empty shotgun makes a good club ... back to basics.
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Old March 16, 2000, 08:15 PM   #16
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Geez Rat, and such a simple question it was.
As I was reading your orginal question I was thinking it depends largely on where/how you live. When I read Davids reply I saw that he was thinking on the same lines as myself. I to live in the "sticks" and like having the sling on my 500 in the event that I need to shoulder it. The sling also offers a place to carry spare shells in a variety of loads in case the siutation changes from defense to "farm use", varmit/cat elimination etc.

General I don't sleep wearing my gun belt but do keep it hanging on the bed post complete with maglite in "D" ring, speed loaders and a set of cuffs, right next to the Mossberg.

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Old March 17, 2000, 08:52 PM   #17
General Tso
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I used to do similar Gunslinger but that was when I was single. My wife cracks down on me now. She claims my gunleather on the bedpost doesn't go with the decor

I do keep a Maglite by the bed and my 870 under it. There's also a S&W M-64 at bedside for either me or the wife to use if need be.

I beleive Gizmo is correct though: it depends upon your concept of HD. For me, I live in the suburbs of a large city. Neighbors are very close by and any altercation would result in a police precense in short order. A perp would be ill advised to hang around long. The PD is only minutes away from the house and I know at least my one neighbor has my old Winchester Defender complete with Sidesaddle, tritium bead and 7 shot tube The cavalry is not far off either way.

That's why I view HD as primarily a static role. It makes the most sense for me to hole up on the upper floor and wait it out. If anyone tries to come up I have a tremendous killzone in the stairwell and a clear shot of the top of it from within the bedroom.

It just doesn't make much sense for me to go looking for trouble. My guns are in a locked room, and then inside steel cabinets. No one's going to get in there fast or without a lot of noise. Other than that, I have insurance so I figure nothing else in the house is worth my life or that of my family. A perp can steal away for all I care, at least until the cops get there. But don't even think about coming up onto the second floor...

P.S. Clogbert, it's boxers. I find it too hard to conceal my Keletc P-32 with it's belt clip in briefs so I need the looser fit of boxers
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Old March 18, 2000, 09:18 PM   #18
Strabs
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I would say no, because 99.9999999% of the time my sig. other is (would be) available to call 911 or tie the perp up (she's real good at tying one up - not like I'd really have her do that though- or maybe I'd let her kick the **** out of him first while I cover & secure.

By the way, who in his right mind is going to try (much less need to) to do transitions in an HD situation? If you can't hit 'em with 3-5..or 10+ shots, or they don't run away after you wake up the whole damn neighborhood with gunfire, your trusty shotgun just turned into Louisville's Best.

Ok, now for reality. During the .000000001% that there's no other help in the house, if you don't have a sling, slinging's not an option. Therefore, practice maneuvering in your home and using a phone (kicking) etc...while HOLDING YOUR WEAPON ON THE PERP AT ALL TIMES!!!

All things aside, I would want a sling, outside of the house, for carrying, while not required to have the weapon at ready. But take off those swivels, they're to noisy inside...shhhhhhh

[This message has been edited by Strabs (edited March 18, 2000).]
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Old March 18, 2000, 09:38 PM   #19
Erik
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I'm for slings. It is better to have it and not use it than need to use it and not have it.
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Old March 18, 2000, 11:52 PM   #20
gunmart
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well said erik
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Old March 19, 2000, 12:26 AM   #21
TENN45
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If you decide sling,- it's just like using boxers or briefs ..."Practice!"
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Old March 19, 2000, 03:56 AM   #22
Espresso
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I'm for slings.

Dave McC idea about the probability of fighting effectively with a pistol after nine rounds of 12ga. seems right on unless you have,(however remote the possibility), a stoppage after the first round. Then you better have a place to put that almost fully loaded shotgun. I'd hate to toss a loaded gun where a BG could pick it up and make it work! Whammo! Hit with your own gun!
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Old March 19, 2000, 11:48 AM   #23
Dave McC
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Expresso, Murphy's Law rules in AS scenarios and HD incidents,as in all human endeavour. but the chance of a perp clearing a jam I can't seems rather slim.

And while the HD 870 here has a mag extension, reality insists that more than one shot/perp is a scant possibility,and barely worth preparing for.

However, having been on the wrong end of long odds before, I'll grab a backup sidearm as indicated. The More Is Better Principle is oft correct in these things...
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Old March 20, 2000, 12:04 PM   #24
General Tso
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Still depends on your HD scenario. For me I shouldn't be moving anywhere through the house that a perp could pick up a jammed gun. I'm looking at a static defense where, if I drop it, it's at my feet and will remain there while I pick up my M-64.

We're all considering slightly different scenario's depending on our home layouts, threat levels, and where we live. Looks like in some instances a sling would be potentially beneficial in others it wouldn't be. As usual, taylor your choice to your particular situation

[This message has been edited by General Tso (edited March 20, 2000).]
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