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Old April 6, 2002, 12:27 AM   #1
Cheapo
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Accuracy w/ Berry's .40/10mm bullets

What kind of 25-yard accuracy are we getting with Berry's bullets?

I've been able to get 3 inches with both the 180-gr TCs and RNFPs. Is it worth the effort to do more load development?

Anyone used the 155s or other weights?
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Old April 6, 2002, 06:31 AM   #2
WESHOOT2
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NOSY (its my bidness)

Powder?
Primer?
Case?
Gun?
OAL?
Dies?
Process?
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Old April 6, 2002, 07:32 AM   #3
stellarpod
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Bullet: Berry's 155 gr. copper plated
Powder: 5.8 gr. Clay's Universal
Primer: Winchester
Brass: Mixed
OAL: 1.127

I shoot this in a G27 and have been well pleased. Don't have any benchrest details, but it seems to group every bit as good (or better) than factory ammo.

I buy brass from a local gun range. Last time I paid $10 for 1000 .40 S&W cases. Using the mixture listed above, and not including my time spent tumbling/reloading and equipment, it cost me right at $4 per box of 50 to reload these.

This is what works for me. Can't guarantee it'll work for you.
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Old April 6, 2002, 11:59 AM   #4
Northwest Cajun
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Cheapeaux,
I've been through a couple thousand of berry's 200 gr RS for my .45 without a jam. Great bullets, great price! I also use them in my M1 carbine and .44 Special. and soon in my 45-70.
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Old April 6, 2002, 12:21 PM   #5
swabjocky
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40s&w

I shoot powerpistol in my 40s&w para.I get 2inch at 25yrds.I use 135gr and 165 gr berrys bullets.I quit using 180 gr because of things I read about them.I believe 165 gr is the best you can use.
I have never had a kaboom with the para.I had 3 kabooms with a model 27 glock.The para is fully suported and is not polygonal.

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Old April 6, 2002, 08:43 PM   #6
WESHOOT2
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IME

I've noted better accuracy using Power Pistol compared to Universal Clays in the 40 S&W.
I manufactured a few zillion in 40 using the Rainier 180g TCJ-FP.
OAL 1.130"+/-.005".
I never ever use(d) fired-from-Glock cases, ever.
Crimp is for removing the mouth flare; use case neck tension for holding the bullet (if you must, purchase a LEE "U" undersized sizing die).

Crimp alone will not hold any bullet in any case.
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Old April 6, 2002, 09:43 PM   #7
bullet44
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Berry's 155fp and aa5 powder hard to beat
comb.
After trying various powders I find aa5
best in the 40cal.
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Old April 9, 2002, 01:28 PM   #8
Cheapo
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And the Question was--?

Not to be too disrespectful, but,

"What kind of 25-yard accuracy are we getting with Berry's bullets?"

"hard to beat" and ""without a jam" and "well pleased" are subjective impressions that are of no use to my question.

THANK YOU, Swabjockey (are you a USN Squid??)!

WeShoot2, you're on the right track with at least an ordinal-scale comparison of accuracy levels, based on powder use. I had a similar experience with Universal, as compared to WAP. I'm trying to avoid Power Pistol because of the flash factor. If they took the flash out, I'd use PP for everything.

stellarpod: Thanks for the load data. Do you have velocity readings? Please let me know if you get a chance to bench-test the accuracy, either at 50 feet or 25 yards. I'm intrigued, especially if you can compare in your pistol the accuracy with a factory load.

Swabjockey: What powder(s) were you using with your (to me, disappointing) experiences with the G27? I presume they were all case wall failures?

Thanks!
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Old April 9, 2002, 01:43 PM   #9
WESHOOT2
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FLASH WITH POWER PISTOL

More flash, but still acceptable level for night training.

(My training load could have been used for duty, other than less than ideal bullet. But still adequate.)

Accuracy, regardless of components, will be based on specific gun.
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Old April 9, 2002, 01:47 PM   #10
swabjocky
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Type of powder.

I am retired from civil service and I was in the navy many moons ago.all the kabooms were blowouts at the unsupported web.I thought it was something i was doing wrong.I have used 231,bullseye,unique at the time.when it happened,I had never heard of a kaboom.after the third one I bought an aftermarket barrel,and no problems after that.I wanted to shoot lead so I traded it for a para.40s&w.I am convinced that glock is fine if you shoot new ammo.Iam to tight for that.

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Old April 9, 2002, 04:51 PM   #11
bullet44
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"hard to beat" and ""without a jam" and "well pleased" are subjective impressions that are of no use to my question. "

Whoa, sorry about that I withdraw my
suggestion for using AA5.
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Old April 9, 2002, 11:48 PM   #12
Cheapo
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Ahh...sorry..

I realize "ah bin a bit testee" today. Perhaps a bit of spillover from some recent "just answer the question" frustrations at work.

Bullet44, your recommendation of AA5 still stands, and I do not doubt the validity of your satisfaction one bit. Having experienced some almost astounding accuracy differences between H-Universal (lousy) and WAP (great, WHY did they discontinue it?!?!?) powders, I remain intrigued by your experiences with AA5.

If'n I may ask: What group sizes do you get, and how much better are they than with other powders?

The 155s interest me, despite having developed two or three good loads with 180s. It's probably a combination of a buck or two cheaper per 500 bullets (hey, I _am_ Cheapo) and my .357 Magnum history of seeking speed (love those 125-gr bullets!).
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Old April 10, 2002, 08:15 AM   #13
bullet44
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Cheapo;
My answer was also tongue in cheek type
thing and not to be taken serious.
I do a lot of testing with different loads on
all my guns and I always test loads from the
bench. With AA5 and Berrys 155gr I get 1.5-2inch groups at 25 yards with my
cz40B, I find that best accuracy comes
from mild or slow loads. I always hesitate
to post group size as you know it will
vary with gun, shooter, etc.
I have used, titegroup, red dot, Unique,
Bullseye and settled on aa5 as the most
accurate in my gun. I do not use 180gr
bullets in the 40 cal and use 155gr only,
many will disagree but bullet set back on
this cal is especially dangerous with heavy
loads and most I have read about(kabooms) have occured with the 180gr bullet. For me
I just dont think the 40cal was designed to be used with 180gr loads.
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Old April 10, 2002, 11:03 AM   #14
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Cheapo,

Well, I get excellent results with Berry's 165 grain TCJ-RNFP in my .40 loads, and excellent results with their 180 grain TCJ-RNFP in my 10 mm loads.

.40 load:

165 grain Berry's TCJ-RNFP bullet
6.6 grains Alliant Power Pistol (6.2 grains minimum, 7.1 grains max)
Any standard small pistol primer (CCI, Remington, Federal, Winchester, Fiocchi Leadless)
COAL = 1.130"
Crimp to 0.421" with Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die

10 mm load:

180 grain Berry's TCJ-RNFP bullet
8.2 grains Alliant Power Pistol (8.7 grains max)
Any standard large pistol primer (CCI, Remington, Federal, Winchester)
COAL = 1.255"
Crimp to 0.421" with Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die

I know you don't like the flash of Alliant Power Pistol, but it is one of the most consistent powders that I have ever used, and gives me excellent velocities without the pressure.

If you want the benefits of Power Pistol, but don't want the flash, I would suggest trying Vihtavuori 3N37 or N350.

For the .40:

Same stats as the 165 grain recipe I listed above, but use 6.1 grains VV 3N37 (5.7 grains min, 6.7 grains max)

For the 10 mm:

Same recipe as the 180 grain recipe I listed above, but use 7.4 grains VV 3N37 (6.7 grains min, 7.8 grains max)

Be warned, though, Cheapo, that often times, VV powders don't come so cheaply. I've been fortunate to find them at South Carolina gun shows for 68 bucks / 4 lb kegs.
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Old April 11, 2002, 12:45 AM   #15
Cheapo
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Well, Cheapeaux (luv 'dat Fuhrench!) shies away from VV powders NOT because of the expense but because of the extremely long supply lines. Being a bit of a history buff, the lessons of the US/UN vs. North Korea war still linger. More recent "stroke of a pen" import bans still sting.

So, I strongly wish to stick with U.S.-produced powders.

Chemistry: What group sizes do you get with the 165s? I keep hearing that 165 is the ideal weight, but the only stuff I've been able to lay paws on is the Hydra-Shok, which I *am* too cheap to buy. Gotta look a bit harder for Berry's 165s--the 180s and 155s are all I've seen on the shelf here. Maybe I'll just have to mail order...

Bullet44: I'm quite impressed with your group sizes. I keep getting similar reports from other CZ75B users. That one's heavy, but that's because of the steel. Maybe it's time to get on an old-fashioned durability kick?

I remember Power Pistol having a lot LESS flash in the .40 than in the .357 Mag (using 125-gr bullets, at least!). I'm trying Herco right now--if that doesn't pan out, maybe I'll go back to PP. My accuracy with Hornady 155s and PP was not terrific, but I also didn't really try to develop the load either. Hornady XTP bullets typically give me excellent accuracy, too.

Swabjockey: Thanks for the info. Have any pictures of your 3 9x19 blowouts? I think that the Glock kB! FAQ people need to hear from you. Squids are all right by me--usually more sensible than the "hoo-rah!" groundpounders. But, there are also times when you DON'T want your soldiers sensible!
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Old April 11, 2002, 06:39 PM   #16
swabjocky
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To cheapo.

No, Iam sorry now that I did not take any pictures.every so often I will get a double charge no matter how careful I am.I have to trust that my handgun can handle it.all my guns can handle a double load with no problem.the glock was not built to take lead reloads.I like shooting the lowcost stuff, and plus I have 500lbs of the lead.I have a lot of shooting to do.you will have to order the berrys bullets over the internet.


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