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Old April 2, 2002, 12:52 AM   #1
andreb
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Glock Accidental discharge yesterday

Well a friend of mine is in the hospital. I have not had a chance to talk to him yet because the accident happened yesterday and he was in surgery and is now resting, but as soon as I have a chance I'll ask him details but here is the story for now:

He's a competition shooter and has been one for 9 years, shoots .380's, 38 Super and 45's. Use to carry a Taurus PT-938, switched to Glock 28 about eight months ago and carries it inside the pants, on his back and doesn't use a holster. When taking the gun out to sit in his car the gun fired (well guns don't just fire do they?) while crossing from his right side to the left to be placed on the door compartment. Result: in through the bladder and from what family told me the bullet is now in his butt and they probably will remove it after he recovers from the first surgery.

Now this is an experienced shooter!!!! Comments? Similar stories? Theories on what might have happened?

As soon as I get to talk to him I'll post the story from the inside but for now we can discuss the matter right?

Best regards,

André
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Old April 2, 2002, 01:00 AM   #2
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Old April 2, 2002, 01:03 AM   #3
Jesse H
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Quote:
well guns don't just fire do they?
You are correct. They don't unless the trigger is pulled...especially on quality pistols like Glocks. Hope your friend recovers quickly.
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Old April 2, 2002, 01:09 AM   #4
NapAttack
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Even experienced shooters get careless. I'm sure he won't be careless again!

Sounds like he violated at least 3 of the four rules of gun handling. I'm not putting your friend down, I'm sure he's kicking himself, or will be as soon as he can. I think there are only two kinds of experienced shooters, those that have had an AD and liars.

Maybe he ought to change his method of carry, carrying a Glock without a holster. IWB removable holster might have helped in this situation.
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Old April 2, 2002, 01:59 AM   #5
Shootin' Shane
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Well, I was waiting for someone else to say it, but I think the Glock is more prone to accidental discharge than other brands. Wait a minute while I get my flame suit on.....OK. It has no safety (sure, other guns don't either), but the Glock doesn't have a double action trigger and leaves NO margin for error. I used to love carrying a Glock 27 in a pocket holster. It was the perfect package. It worried me though. Even being experienced, I worried something might one day hit that trigger. It sounds like that is exactly what happened to your friend. I hope he is OK. I started carrying mine without a round in the chamber but that defeated the purpose of carrying. I eventually sold it. This is just my experience, I'm sure others are very comfortable with their Glocks.
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Old April 2, 2002, 03:09 AM   #6
Fred Hansen
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Shootin' Sane,

Sorry to hear that you owned a glock, but didn't know how it worked. The only reason that a Glock trigger isn't considered "double action" is a technical one. Racking the slide on a Glock cocks the striker halfway. One must still pull the trigger all the way to the rear in order for it to fire. Something or someone that merely "hits" it, will not cause it to fire any more than "hitting" the trigger would cause a double action revolver to fire.

I am sorry to hear that an experienced shooter would violate so many safety rules that he would end up in the hospital. It was a human mistake, and it could happen to anyone. Had the firearm been of another manufacture, he would be no less shot.

It sounds like his prognosis is good, and I wish him Godspeed in his recovery.
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Old April 2, 2002, 04:52 AM   #7
Tom B
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The reason Glocks are not considered double action is most only require about 6lbs of trigger pull (stock) and much less travel than a true approx 12lb DA pull pistol. I like Glocks but I won't carry mine the same way I would carry a S&W or Ruger revolver.
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Old April 2, 2002, 05:03 AM   #8
Fred Hansen
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No. The reason that they aren't considered double action is stated above. The patented Glock SafeAction is what it is. One's perception of it does not change the inherent difference of its funtion as compared to all other actions.

In any case, one cannot shoot one's self without pointing the weapon at one's body, or a suface that can cause a ricochet. Lots of people "think" that a person can, but in this case(as in most), thinking doesn't make it so. All firearms have only one safety, the person operating them at the time.
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"This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! No bomb was set off, no missile was fired, no weapon (i.e., a device that was solely and specifically manufactured to kill humans) was used. A boxcutter! -- I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing?"

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Old April 2, 2002, 05:10 AM   #9
Shootin' Shane
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I know how they work. The problem is not the mechanism, but the weight of the trigger pull. The trigger of a Glock and the trigger of a double action revolver (or auto) are nowhere near the same. And the rage with Glocks is to install an even lighter 3.5 lb trigger. Now of course, some will say "Trigger weight doesn't matter. If your finger is not on the trigger, then the gun will not go off." That is where ACCIDENTS come in. Even an experienced shooter can make a mistake. And what if his finger wasn't even on the trigger? What if the trigger snagged on something? Are you saying that a gun with a safety or a 10 to 12 lb double action trigger can be pulled just as easy as a 3.5 to 5.5 lb trigger?
If you are comfortable with them, that is fine. I am not. Knowing how they work does not make the pistol any safer when it comes to an ACCIDENT. I know how a 1911 pistol works but I am not going to carry one cocked and UNlocked.
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Old April 2, 2002, 06:19 AM   #10
juliet charley
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FWIW, Glock does advertise or describe their pistols as DAO--it could it have something do with the "truth in advertising" laws?

Speaking of absolute irresponsibility, I was at gun show two weekends ago, and "Certified Glock Armourer" (at least that's what his banner said) was selling (and installing) belt clips for Glocks which allowed them to be carried IWB (clipped ot the belt) without a holster. I thought one of the basic tenets of Glock safety was always, always carry the Glock in a holster that covers the trigger/triggerguard. I could just see poor schmuck trying to stick a G27 into his pants behind hip (under the "love handles") and getting his shirt tail (or finger) inside the trigger guard just as he shoved the clip down hard over his belt--talk about a "new groove."
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Old April 2, 2002, 06:26 AM   #11
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I have the same concerns about AD so I carry my G26 with a
SAF-T-BLOK while carrying in my bellyband or fanny pack

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Old April 2, 2002, 06:29 AM   #12
Blue Duck357
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Love Glocks, comfortable carrying them, but I'd no more carry one IWB without a holster than I'd cock a double action revolver and drop it in my pants pocket for a night on the town.

Frankly as I have a bit of "middle age spread" and prefer the 3.5# trigger I don't even carry my Glock IWB at all.
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Old April 2, 2002, 07:55 AM   #13
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Andre...

Sorry about your friend. I hope he gets back to normal. However, it sounds like a very bad wound.

KR
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Old April 2, 2002, 07:56 AM   #14
mini14jac
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Napattack wrote:
Quote:
I think there are only two kinds of experienced shooters, those that have had an AD and liars.
Very well put.
I have been shooting since I was about 12 years old.
(Seems like a really, really long time.)

I have had two 2 ADs that I can think of.

One was a Jennings .22 that had jammed.
The other was a Mossberg 12ga. shotgun with a baulky trigger.
By the grace of God, no one was injured.

Both of my ADs involved my bony little finger on the trigger, where it should not have been at the time.

Ever see the Waco assault video, where the ATF agent shoots himself in the leg?
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Old April 2, 2002, 08:04 AM   #15
1goodshot
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How can he carry a loaded glock without a holster in his pants?Thats just asking for trouble and thats what he got.
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Old April 2, 2002, 08:35 AM   #16
BaerCountry
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Heads in the sand

Shootin' Shane
It's so sad that it's funny how predictably the Glock apologists jump on someone who criticizes their perfect piece of plastic. A good friend of mine attended a Glock armorer's school and is quick to point out how many "safeties" are designed in. He truely does not understand my opinion that if all one has to do is pull the trigger to make it go kaboom----oops, I meant boom, then it clearly has no mechanism with which to render the piece safe.

I would think all Glock owners would want to install the Cominolli Safety as reviewed in the Jan/Feb 2002 American Handgunner. Now that's a safety, folks.

Hunkering down...
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Old April 2, 2002, 09:08 AM   #17
Rickmeister
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Zoiks!!!

Must be why I never carry any DAO striker-fired gun with a round in the chamber, unless it's holstered.

Disregard for rules #1, #2 and #3 cost your friend more than a point deduction, didn't it.


...

Last edited by Rickmeister; April 2, 2002 at 12:38 PM.
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Old April 2, 2002, 09:26 AM   #18
warhammer357
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In general guns don't just go boom, but things can make them go kaboom.
Number one, the guy needs to use a holster if he is carrying a Glock with a round in the chamber. After all, the G designs are on half cock and have no thumb safety per se, the safety is the face of the trigger.
Number two, Guns should be treated like pet rattlesnakes-with respect, not complacancy.
Number three there can be mechanical issues. For example, a friend recently had a problem with a slam fire in his Springfield 1911. Like many Glock owners, he has the idea he doesn't have to clean his gun. Powder and primer residue biult up in the firing pin channel. I know of similar AD's from G-17s at a police department that jumped on board the Glock bandwagon back in the day.
Most AD's are from violatin' rule three though.
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Old April 2, 2002, 09:31 AM   #19
22lovr
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I'll share hoping to save some grief...

I've been shooting for about 47 years now. I was trained by WWII Marine father, was a Vietnam Veteran (Danang 1966) and several months back, suffered by first (and hopefully last) accidental discharge. I was getting ready to dry-fire by Taurus Mod 85 and somehow got the gun mixed up with my .357 mag revolver (almost identical weight/feel/action) well, I shot a .357 mag round through my bedroom floor! The round, a Georgia Arms 125 gr SJHP, did it's job hardly ruffling the carpet and expanding into a floor joist.

"What a dumb S**T" I thought to myself. Well, I've since overhauled my weapons handling procedures and friends, I hope none of you ever have to fire a .357 mag inside of an enclosed place because I was instantly DEAF for about 3 days and it took over a month for my hearing to return to a semblance of normal (?)

I share this in the hopes that it may save a life or trauma, yours or a loved one's. I was LUCKY-LUCKY-LUCKY.

Be careful!
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Old April 2, 2002, 09:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
A good friend of mine attended a Glock armorer's school and is quick to point out how many "safeties" are designed in. He truely does not understand my opinion that if all one has to do is pull the trigger to make it go kaboom----oops, I meant boom, then it clearly has no mechanism with which to render the piece safe.
It's obvious that you and your friend don't recognize where the most important safety for any gun is located, between your ears! Quite frankly, one of the endearing qualities of the Glock is the very one that you don't like, you pull the trigger and it fires! I'll be mighty unhappy the day my Glocks don't exhibit that behavior!

You have taken an incident where someone is carrying the gun without a holster, manages to point it at himself and fire, and blamed the gun! I'm almost speechless, next you'll be recounting the story where the Glock escaped from the safe and went on a killing rampage!
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Old April 2, 2002, 09:53 AM   #21
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I've only been shooting for a couple of years now. Jeff Cooper's rules are still fresh in my mind. I hope what happened to your friend doesn't mean that I will become more of a danger to myself as time goes by (Naturally, I won't). It just seems to me that the more one boasts having experience with guns, the more complacent and over-confident they become.

Humility and respect for these tools should never take a back seat when it comes to handling them. My philosophy: Don't swing your Custom STI Glass Filled Nylon Polymer Grip OKO Red Dot Reflex Railway Hard Chrome with Color Inlay 1911 GrandMaster like it was a prosthetic penis, no matter how long you've been playing with it. Safety isn't something you take for granted.


...

Last edited by Rickmeister; April 2, 2002 at 11:17 AM.
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Old April 2, 2002, 10:03 AM   #22
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Mexican carry is a real bad idea!

You should go out and buy your good friend a good IWB holster for his Glock and give it to him as a gift after he recovers some. I do not own a Glock handgun BUT I am not going to blame the tool. A good wheel gun could have been the weapon involved in this accident just as well as a Glock. I personally don't like SOB carry and definately don't like Mexican (no holster carry) carry of any handgun, especially a Glock. AD happen ... my older brother's background is almost exactly list 22luvr who posted above. My brother put a 9mm round into his TV set a couple years ago. Thankfully the HP round did not exit the TV set. Hope your friend fully recovers and that we all learn from his tragic accident. Be Safe.
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Old April 2, 2002, 10:22 AM   #23
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I would like to make two points:

First, I find it interesting that so many of you have jumped on the idea that carrying a Glock without a holster caused this accident. Andre said, "...while crossing from his right side to the left to be placed on the door compartment." The gun was already out of the guy's waistband. Maybe it shouldn't have been carried that way but it has nothing to do with this accident as described.

Second, I used to teach (in Officer Survival classes) that the most deadly word in the English language is "routine". When things become routine we disengage the brain. Being an "experienced shooter" usually just means things have become "routine".
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Old April 2, 2002, 10:26 AM   #24
22lovr
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Couldn't have hit a better target....

Shermdo: Thanks for sharing. Your brother was also lucky and I don't think he could have picked a more fitting target than a %^&*#$@@#$ television !! Arrghh!
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Old April 2, 2002, 10:37 AM   #25
IRock
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Dave T if he had been using a holster it may not have happened. Unless he was going to leave the holster on and sit on it. I know I would have taken the holster off as well. In any case, buy that friend a holster for a get well gift.
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