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Old March 18, 2002, 07:20 AM   #1
JimDiver
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BATF harassing Amateur Rocketry Hobbyists - NAR fights back

http://www.tripoli.org/Documents/atf...tate_0302.html

Joint Statement on ATF Litigation, 3/2/2000

March 2, 2002

In mid-January 2002, we received multiple reports of increased demands made by ATF inspectors on NAR and TRA members with Low Explosive User Permits. In particular, these inspectors demanded motor types whose propellant grains consisted of 62.5 gram and smaller units, generally referred to as "easy access", now be subject to the magazine and record keeping requirements of larger motors if the propellant are designed or intended to be combined and used in a rocket motor whose total propellant weight is greater than 62.5 grams. Our members received at least two instances of written notice of this completely unexpected change in regulation. After consultation with counsel, we also discovered that ATF had filed a motion for summary judgment against three out of four counts in our complaint.

After further review by counsel, on Wednesday, February 27, 2002, the NAR and TRA filed a motion for a preliminary injunction against ATF. We asked that this illegal change in regulation be rescinded and that any further attempts at unwarranted and illegal regulation of the sport rocket hobby be stayed while our complaint was before the court. Our counsel has been unusually thorough and complete in the preparation of our motion, and we believe we have an extremely strong legal case to present to the court, particularly in light of ATF's action against our members in January.

As we have further information on this situation, we will provide it at our websites. We appreciate your constant moral and financial support as we continue to work to secure an unregulated, safe sport rocket hobby.

Mark Bundick, President Bruce Kelly, President

National Association of Rocketry Tripoli Rocketry Association
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Old March 18, 2002, 07:27 AM   #2
yankytrash
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And with this, my friends, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms has officially overstepped it's bounds.

We need some press coverage. Any ideas?

Letters to editors, requests to news anchors, comes to mind. Story titles like "Taking Candy from Babies", or "The raping of today's Youth" come to mind.
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Old March 18, 2002, 07:35 AM   #3
Justin Moore
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Quote:
And with this, my friends, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms has officially overstepped it's bounds
Actually, that happened quite awhile ago: it was called WACO.
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Republic: Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best suited to represent them. Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights and a sensible economic procedure. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles that establish evidence with a strict regard for consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass, it avoids the dangerous extremes of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice contentment and progress, is a standard for government around the world.
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Old March 18, 2002, 08:24 AM   #4
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Dear Mark and Bruce,

In the words of Bruce Willis in Die Hard, "Welcome to the party, pal!"
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Old March 18, 2002, 11:23 AM   #5
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Old March 18, 2002, 04:06 PM   #6
Christopher II
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Good gravy, is there anything that I like to do that the Feds won't interfere with? On second thought, don't answer that...

Good luck and best wishes to the NAR. Might be time to re-up my membership...

- Chris
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Old March 18, 2002, 10:25 PM   #7
MatthewM
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This actually started over two years ago. Unknown to us mear citizens, most of our laws are being re-written to mirror "UN" laws. Whatever those are!

The BATF rewrote the existing laws covering explosives and such and erased the exemption for model rocketry. This moronic typo made high power model rocketry a terrorist activity.

Tripoli and NRA has been fighting it for some time. I quit following it as I'll just fly what I want in a responsible manner and ignore the aholes. Last trip I took I had to go clear to Northern Nevada to fly my rocket. I've also been to Bonneville Salt Flats. Amazing that I have to do a day's travel to another state in search of freedom!!! The above matters are federal and would ban everything everywhere.
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Old March 18, 2002, 10:28 PM   #8
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BTW, when my wife wines about being "uncomfortable", I jokingly tell her that maybe I can fill the tub with jello and hook up an IV so she can be "comfortable".

My point, although "The Matrix" was a great movie on it's face. It has deeper messages on many levels. Let's just put all of mankind in a tub of warm jello and hook up the feeding and butt tubes so we are all "safe". It would be for the "good of the children".

Personally, if it doesn't go bang, involve fire or bodilly risk, it's not much fun. (except maybe food & sex)
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Old March 18, 2002, 11:13 PM   #9
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How do I phrase this!....

MatthewM,

Hate to tell ya this, but here in Va, Its illegal to "conceive a child" in all but one position! As wierd as that seems, it was true not too long ago. It is still on the books as far as I know, but I know of no one being charged....

Its also illegal to wear high-heels in the city of Danville as well.... They used to have coble-stone streets or somthing... And again, I know of no recent charges.

And finaly, it is against the law in some northern county of Va to have more than one family living in the same house! And this one was passed less than a year ago.

Hope the first part of this post is not out of line, and my apologies if it is. I tried to put it as best I could, but I was never that good at being tactful.
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Old March 19, 2002, 02:24 AM   #10
chaim
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Quote:
And finaly, it is against the law in some northern county of Va to have more than one family living in the same house! And this one was passed less than a year ago.
DC suburbs, not surprising. I remember at about that time that either Fairfax or Arlington tried to make it a crime to sleep in any room of your house except your bedroom (no lie).

There are many immigrants in the DC area and both laws are aimed at them as they usually can't afford to live here (the US generally, the DC area especially) unless they share a home/apartment.

However, I wonder how many others would be caught up in the law preventing sleeping outside of your bedroom. I can see it now, one of the MANY times I fall asleep in front of the TV in the living room a cop sees me through the open blinds, knocks on the door, and writes me a ticket for sleeping in the livingroom (or I spend the rest of the night in a jail cell)- a real possibility under that law.
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