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Old February 27, 2002, 09:35 AM   #1
Matt Wallis
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CCW in gun stores...

I live in Central Florida, and I have noticed that every gun store I enter has a sign prominently displayed on the door that says, "No loaded guns beyond this point" or something of that nature. Does this mean you can't CCW in a gun store? It would seem to.

And isn't that a bit of a double standard? Everytime some other store (I believe Lowes comes to mind) puts up a "no guns allowed" sign people start talking boycott. Should we be boycotting these gun stores?

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Old February 27, 2002, 09:41 AM   #2
George Dickel at Work
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I'm pretty sure it is a federal law that prohibits the carry of loaded weapons in a gun shop. The same signs are on gun shops here in Tennessee and in Kentucky.
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Old February 27, 2002, 09:49 AM   #3
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Federal law? Hmmmm.

Could be a state law where the gun laws are strict as in the South.

Gun stores are private property. The owner may set the conditions for entry as he or she wishes. No shirt, no shoes, no SIGs.
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Old February 27, 2002, 09:50 AM   #4
Justin
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I haven't seen anything like that here in Indiana.
And, IIRC, the gunstore I've been to in Kentucky never had anything like that.
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Old February 27, 2002, 09:53 AM   #5
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Atty Freeman right.

Sam
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Old February 27, 2002, 09:53 AM   #6
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I think they are referring to a gun that you are carrying in for service or to trade. Not your CCW. As long as it stays in the holster, nobody should have a problem with a loaded weapon. Just my $.02 and YMMV.

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Old February 27, 2002, 10:07 AM   #7
Tamara
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George Dickel at Work,

Funny, the sign on the door of our local range/gunshop says "Concealed weapons are to remain concealed".

Has nothing to do with federal laws (or "oppressive gun laws in the South", Mr. Freeman, ), it has to do with the fact that gun shop workers get the muzzles of loaded guns waved in their faces more than any other profession. More than cops. Heck, cops are sometimes the ones doing it.

Signs on doors are to hopefully trip the alertness breakers on some folks and make them unload the gun that "ain't workin' right" before they come flash you with the muzzle a half-dozen times.
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Old February 27, 2002, 10:31 AM   #8
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Tamara, hey, all I knows is what I read. The very first (or furst in Hoosierese) line of the Tejas Gun Owners' Guide is "Texas has strict gun laws." And one time at a NADA conference (at band camp) at Northwesten I just happened to strike up a conversation with a young, nubile ADA (I think that's what you call them down there) from Knoxville. She even knew the TN and FL case that references the oppressive gun laws of the South and what they are for. Lovely young lady, dynamic personality (and you should have seen her dance on the bar at Spike's Rat Bar on Elm).

And now it's time for "True Stories of the Former Gun Counter Employee": Guy comes in, wants to see P35. I demag and rack open. He suddenly starts jumping around the counter and the aisles waving it at other customer just like in his SAS training obviously. I hit him high, my buddy hit him low. The store dect was a part-time copper from the Northside. He went downtown; never found out what happened to case. I was never subp'd by the PA.

I've always though that gun shops should have the four rules posted up on a big board.
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Old February 27, 2002, 10:36 AM   #9
David Scott
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I asked this question of the people at AAA Pawn & Gun in Deland, FL and they looked at me like I was a few pecans short of a pie. "We're the LAST PLACE ON EARTH that should object to concealed carry." There is NO federal or Florida law against CCW in gun stores, and my local shop welcomes people who carry.
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Old February 27, 2002, 10:38 AM   #10
George Dickel at Work
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Did some checking. It isn't a fed requirement but the state (Tennessee) allows the shop to prohibit carry of a loaded weapon on their property. The signs I have seen on various shops who displayed one indicated it was a violation of the law to carry a loaded weapon into a gun shop. Underhanded way to throw the blame onto a government entity instead of facing critcism from customers.
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Old February 27, 2002, 11:43 AM   #11
Mike Irwin
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Having been on BOTH sides of the counter, it's a policy I don't like at all.

I normally don't patronize a gunstore where that's the policy, and let them know it. As I told the owner of the store where I used to work, if you're that frigging worried about it, why are you in the gun business and running a shooting range?
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Old February 27, 2002, 12:02 PM   #12
C.R.Sam
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Tamara made sense, as usuall.

If you go into a store with a gun holstered, concealed or open, keep it holstered. If you are bringing in a gun for repair, trade or show n tell.....have it empty and open when you bring it in.

Dont cover anybody with a muzzle, loaded, unloaded or BB gun.

Spookin the herd at a gunstore can be hazardous.

Sam
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Old February 27, 2002, 12:08 PM   #13
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My favorite shops don't have that asinine rule, once we know each other we even safely load and unload carry pieces so we can take turns feeling up each others guns. That's how I expect to get treated in a gunstore. There are a few around here where the owner eyeballs you like they're looking for a chance to shoot you, all of them have that sign. Even after you've been there several times and bought stuff. No law, its just dumb store policy to ensure they don't sell anything.
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Old February 27, 2002, 12:15 PM   #14
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It's called concealed carry for a purpose, people. Out of sight, out of the gunshop owners mind and worries.
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Old February 27, 2002, 12:53 PM   #15
laynlow
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At Tulsa Firearms, concealed weapons are to remain concealed unless you are IN the range. A couple months ago, at the local Oshmans, a customer was looking at a Glock. He breaks and runs for the front of the store, and an employee chases after him. The employee catches him outside the store, and the man pulls another gun he had concealed and shot the store employee. The man then fled with a partner, and they started shooting from a moving vehicle at a good citizen that witnessed the incident and was following them. I think things like this feed the paranoia that bans the law abiding.

Now, I believe that if a state has a concealed carry law, as Oklahoma does, you ought to be able to carry anywhere within reason (read normally daily routien stops). Around here there are so many businesses that don't permit carry, it seems kinda pointless to me to even bother. Don't leave it in the car...that's illegal too.
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Old February 27, 2002, 01:45 PM   #16
Mike Irwin
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"A couple months ago, at the local
Oshmans, a customer was looking at a Glock. He breaks and runs for the front of the store, and an employee chases after him. The
employee catches him outside the store, and the man pulls another gun he had concealed and shot the store employee."

Best reason in the world I can think of to:

1. Carry a gun while working behind the counter.

2. Not chase someone if they're stealing something.
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Old February 27, 2002, 01:53 PM   #17
Matt Wallis
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Well you have given me just the answer I was looking for! I'll just ask the store!

Matt
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Old February 27, 2002, 02:10 PM   #18
Tamara
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Quote:
2. Not chase someone if they're stealing something.
I've given that one a lot of thought. I still think a gun is probably the one item I'd try to prevent the theft of with physical force.

I know that what they do with it is their responsibility and not mine, but I'd feel bad if I didn't make a concerted attempt to stop them.
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Old February 27, 2002, 02:23 PM   #19
Logistar
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FWIW - I haven't noticed any signs restricting firearms in any way at the KY and IN gun stores I have been in.

(I believe one of the stores in IN said no CAMERAs though. - Not sure what that was about.)
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Old February 27, 2002, 03:34 PM   #20
laynlow
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The employee was yelling for the front checkers to lock the doors. I don't know if they have those panic buttons or not, but had they locked the doors, there would have been enough people to contain the suspect.

When the employee chased the guy out of the store, it was one on one long enough for the shooting to occur. FYI, the employee was hit in the leg, and made a full recovery.
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Old February 27, 2002, 04:14 PM   #21
Jay Baker
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I haven't seen any signs like that at gun stores in Idaho... but then, I haven't been in every gun store in Idaho, although I'm trying.

J.B.
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Old February 27, 2002, 04:27 PM   #22
EnochGale
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This one has been talked to death before. If one really keeps it in the holster - you have no problem.

The analysis I've seen is that if you are too dumb not to wave a gun in the store - then you are too dumb for the store to sell you one. Someone should get a big broom and sweep you out.

There's no federal law - one should really check the legal sources before you say such.
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Old February 27, 2002, 04:31 PM   #23
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Almost all the employees of local gun shops pack openly on the job. I dislike being the only unarmed guy in the room.

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Old February 27, 2002, 04:32 PM   #24
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In Texas, "No Guns" signs have to be bilingual, be a set size, and have specific wording to be binding on CHL holders. A sign that simply says "No Loaded Guns" has no legal standing for CHL holders as far as the law is concerned, so one can ignore them when posted on gun shop or gun show entrances.

Since most gun shop owners know this aspect of the law, "no loaded guns" signs are meant for Joe Duckhunter or Bob Deerhunter, so they don't bring in a loaded rifle to have a 'scope mounted or something and risk an ND.

Of course, your concealed weapon should remain concealed. And if the proprietor asks you to leave and you're dumb enough to refuse, you can run afoul of trespass law.
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Old February 27, 2002, 04:32 PM   #25
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In Ohio, most people don't suspect that people actual go about armed due to the law. This invites criminals, but also lessens people suspecting those good people who do carry.

A friend of my father's (who had grown up together) works at a local gun shop. He told me that he was carrying a 4" .357 Smith & Wesson after I looked at a the same model with a 6" barrel.

I didn't mention it, but I was carrying a cocked-n-locked Springfield Armory. Of course, the only person in the gun shop who knew I was carrying was me and that's the way it ought to be.
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