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Old February 27, 2002, 01:31 AM   #1
striderteen
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SWAT & No-Knock: Survival

What with SWAT teams doing no-knock assault entries left and right, those of us who chose to defend ourselves are caught in a deadly Catch-22. You shoot at the SWAT boys, they'll gun you down; you wait for an ID...well, then the real bad guys get the jump on you.

Tragically, it appears that the only way to survive is to take down the SWAT team and then get a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY good lawyer to defend you. Obviously, we need to force them to quit doing these no-knocks, or at least to exercise EXTREME discretion in doing so.

In the meantime...just how do you survive a gunfight with six-ten SWAT guys in body armor with MP5s???


Note: I do NOT ever want to have to kill anyone, much less a cop trying to do his job. But, if it's him or me, I have no choice. I will defend myself.
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Old February 27, 2002, 07:39 AM   #2
C.R.Sam
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Long odds.
Kinda like gettin struck by lightning. Not likely but if it does happen you have a problem.

Situational awareness your best protection.

Sam
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Old February 27, 2002, 08:01 AM   #3
Bulldozer
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No offense, but if you open fire on any SWAT/SRT personnel, you are going down fast and hard in a hail of lead. No two ways about it.

Yes, they have been known to hit the wrong address. Bad guys do not generally operate in large teams with heavy body armor for home invasions. At least not in this part of the world.
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Old February 27, 2002, 08:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Yes, they have been known to hit the wrong address. Bad guys do not generally operate in large teams with heavy body armor for home invasions. At least not in this part of the world.
Unfortunately, that's changing. Home invasions are characterized by multiple aggressors, not single individuals. And body armor is becoming more common. And given that many of the tragedies have been due, at least in part, by the police "forgetting" to announce who they are when they enter, how can you tell the "good" guys from the "bad"?
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Old February 27, 2002, 08:41 AM   #5
ronin308
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You're not going to be able to ice an entire SWAT team! CR Sam said it best "Situational awareness is your best protection". This is a lose/lose situation. I'd say to not look at their uniforms, but their equipment. Bad guys normally don't use MP5's, Pre-ban looking ARs, Bolle goggles, Hi Tech boots, etc.
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Old February 27, 2002, 09:20 AM   #6
TheeBadOne
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Adding to Ronin's list....

........Laser sights (on your chest or head, you WILL see them), ballistic sheilds, helmets, powerful flash bang devices, load bearing vests, etc.
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Old February 27, 2002, 05:05 PM   #7
agalb
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Holy crap! Talk about illusions of grandeur. I think you took that idiotic paintball thread seriously. If a SWAT team makes an entry into your place, and you are holding a weapon, (unlikely- you will probably be asleep) you are a dead man. Wake up.
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Old February 27, 2002, 06:13 PM   #8
ronin308
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agalb- Who are you addressing? Striderteen, or all of us?
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Old February 27, 2002, 06:17 PM   #9
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TheeBadOne- Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that any SWAT uses laser sights. They use Trijicons, Aimpoint, etc. but not laser pointer-type sights

I forgot to add, after you ID their equipment, put all your guns away so you don't become room temp all of a sudden.
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Old February 27, 2002, 06:33 PM   #10
D.W. Drang
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What with SWAT teams doing no-knock assault entries left and right,
Granted we're mostly to busy looking for work these days up here in the Seattle area to read the news from places like Caliporny, but exactly where are SWAT teams "doing no-knock assault entries left and right" these days? I hadn't heard...

If you shoot a SWAT guy, you can probably assume that they will do their best to over power you--up to and possibly even including "The Philidelphia Treatment."

Has any PD/Municipality ever paid off for damages suffered due to a "wrong address" raid? Including wrongful death?
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Old February 27, 2002, 07:26 PM   #11
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Ronin, yes, I am aware of SWAT teams who use Laser sites. The tactical use of them varies by team. Some go in with laser on (usually the bunker guy as he can hold his handgun around the sheild and aim it while still keeping his body behind the sheild), some go in with them off and switch them on if needed. Equipment varies agency to agency and even team to team.
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Old February 27, 2002, 07:46 PM   #12
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Sorry everyone, that was for striderteen only. Adam
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Old February 27, 2002, 08:47 PM   #13
ronin308
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agalb- No need for apologies

Dan
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Old February 27, 2002, 08:49 PM   #14
ronin308
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agalb- No need for apologies

TheeBadOne- Thanks for the extra info. It makes sense that a bunker guy w/shield would use one. I never thought of that!

Dan
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Old February 27, 2002, 09:33 PM   #15
Daniel
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'nother good reason not to play tactical John Doe and try and clear your house. Good to hole up in your bedroom with the AR + light pointed at door... if'n a ninja turtle comes through, blast 'em. Their fault for the poor recon.

You will prolly live longer if you barricade the room with somethin', and call the other police.
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