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Old May 8, 2007, 04:13 PM   #1
Rev Dr
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leupold or? for forgiving eye relief

I've read many threads on this site about scopes--most discussions focusing on durability and optical quality. I'm interested in eye relief. I have a light new light Savage 11 in .308 that I want to scope. I have a bushnell trophy on the gun for the moment and can tell I will want something with greater eye relief when I take the gun hunting. 4 inches or more would nice.

I've looked at the Bushnell legend and Elite Series, the Nikons, the Millett Bucks, the Fullfield, the Aetec, the Sightron II, the Simmons MS ProHunter, and the Weaver, but they all have roughly the same eye relief as this Trophy (which is 3 or 3.6 minimum depending on which website you check). I haven't popped myself in the eye at the range, but another inch would make me feel comfortable.

I'm trying to avoid paying Leupold prices, even used they offend the penny pincher in me.

Just a regular 3x9x40. I'm looking for the Savage equivalent in a scope--cheap (ugly) but good performance. 4 inches of eye relief--is that so much to ask?

Last edited by Rev Dr; May 8, 2007 at 04:44 PM. Reason: typo
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Old May 8, 2007, 04:32 PM   #2
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The only ones with more than 4" (but not intermediate or extended eye relief) is the Burris Signature Select Safari 1.75-5x32 with an Eye Relief of 3.8-4.5" depending on the magnification level. Hopefully someone else will chime in with some other options as I'm in a similar boat. The Zeiss 3-9x40 has 4".
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Old May 8, 2007, 04:38 PM   #3
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Here's another one
Leupold VX-3 Scope 1.75-6x 32mm Duplex Reticle Matte

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...te=1&p=2350268
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Old May 8, 2007, 04:39 PM   #4
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THE ZEISS CONQUEST at $379.399 will work . www.theopticzone.com
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Old May 8, 2007, 05:04 PM   #5
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eye relief

I researched this once. Among scopes under $750, Leupold is the best - any of them - they all have generous eye relief. IIRC, Zeiss Conquest second place and Sightron S2 a close third. The Bushnell Elites aren't too far behind either.

In my view, the one place that Leupolds are worth the money is in big boomers - .300 mags and up. For two reasons. The excellent warranty may come in handy if the recoil breaks the scope, and the long eye relief keeps you shooting instead of cussing from scope eye. But the Leupold VX2, 3-9x40, for example, has 4.2" of eye relief - most excellent for both quick and dirty sighting, and avoiding scope-eye.
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Old May 8, 2007, 06:21 PM   #6
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I greatly appreciate the suggestions. Any others?

I might have to cave in and spring for a Leupold. On principle, I'd like to avoid it.

.308 isn't real hard kicking but it is a light rifle and will get some use away from the range. 4 inches would be nice. Gives a little more flexibility.

And a Bushnell Elite price would nice. To go with an ugly Savage (and Lee dies). That kind of budget.
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Old May 8, 2007, 06:34 PM   #7
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The Bushnell Elites have been tested for recoil on .375H&H magnum? passed with flying colors, also another guy using the Elite scope on a .50 cal, hold up great & excellent history on repeat zero.

To me, the Bushnell Elite 10x40 is very comparable to Leupolds.

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Old May 8, 2007, 07:04 PM   #8
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I have a Bushnell 4200 elite on my .270 and eye relief at higher mgnifications is my only complaint. Since scope eye isn't really a problem with the .270 I'm considering replacing my 2 piece bases with a one piece base to see if that doesn't help. Based on my experience, if eye relief is a primary criteria I would suggest you look elsewhere.
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Old May 8, 2007, 07:10 PM   #9
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Burris Short Mag scopes.

http://www.swfa.com/pc-8168-627-burr...fle-scope.aspx
http://www.swfa.com/pc-8167-627-burr...fle-scope.aspx

5 inches of relief on low power, 3.75 on high.

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Old May 8, 2007, 07:14 PM   #10
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Here's what I've found listed for eye relief for some options. Eye relief numbers are from optics planet and Midway.

Leupold
VX2: 3.7-4.7
VX1: 4.2
Rifleman: 3.7-4.2

Bushnell:
Elite 3200: 3.3
Trophy: 3.4

Zeis Conquest: 4

Sightron II: 3.6-4.2

Nikon
Prostaff: 3.7
Buckmaster: 3.6

Swift Premier: 3.6-5.3
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Old May 8, 2007, 07:37 PM   #11
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I own a leupold vx-2 3-9x40mm and its INCREDIBLY generous on eye releif i love it...the other thing i saw that was neat for about 70 bux cheaper was the bushnell ELITE line they are amazing when i checked them out at the store.
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Old May 8, 2007, 08:06 PM   #12
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Rev Dr. - interesting on the over 5" with Swift Premier. I had not compared them - I actually have a Swift Premier but don't shoot the gun it's on very much. The Swifts seem pretty good, but some people consider them marginal scopes. OTOH, some people swear by them for a good value in a scope. Wonder if they would hold up to heavy recoil? At what magnification did the Swift Premier in question have in excess of 5"? Because it's not fair to compare the others on 3x with a Swift on 1.5x. Since on most scopes, the higher the magnif., the lower the eye relief.

http://www.swfa.com/c-380-swift-prem...le-scopes.aspx

The exception to that is..... the Zeiss have the advantage of having the SAME eye relief throughout the range of magnification, unlike the other brands. So Zeiss is the way to go if shooting a big boomer on high power in the field.

Also interesting about the Burris short mags - thanks. They just may take the cake on eye relief, besides the Swift Premier. I sure wish that the Burris short mags would offer a scope that had a heavy duplex reticle, and/or offered on in a 1-3 or 1-4 variable. The 1x fixed short mag has up to 24" of eye relief!

http://www.swfa.com/pc-4552-627-burr...fle-scope.aspx

But a 1.0-4x26mm short mag with a heavy duplex and eye relief at 5" when on 4x would be the pig's feces on a couple of my guns! C'mon Burris, you listening?

Another thing...we need to be aware of clever marketing...there is a difference between optimum eye relief & maximum eye relief. For example, I found that the Sightron S2's marketing stretches the truth a bit - that 4.2" of supposed eye relief? Well, that's not the eye relief when OPTIMUM (i.e. when you have max edge-to-edge exit pupil) - that's the max usable eye relief, as I discovered. So it's hard to compare apples to apples just by looking at marketing claims. You have to get and test them. But IINM, the Leupolds show OPTIMUM, not maximum, and therefore are not exaggerated marketing claims. I'd venture a guess that ditto for the Zeisses.

And it looks like I may have been mistaken on the Bushnell Elites - their eye relief numbers seem nothing special at all. Dunno where I got that; sorry.
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Old May 8, 2007, 08:38 PM   #13
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FirstFreedom,
I wonder about these numbers as well. All numbers are for comparable scopes 3x9x40, but who knows how those numbers are discovered and by whom? Some scopes--the Bushnell trophy, the Nikon Buckmaster, I've only found one number for, don't know if it's average, high or low.

I am impressed with the Swift numbers. I've heard them called marginal and heard them called good. Dunno what to think. Sometimes I think if it don't cost an arm and a leg people won't look at a scope. Not that the highend stuff ain't nice. But I don't want to pay extra for reputation and can do without some polish and luxury "feel."

The Burris short mags look interesting as well. I'm looking at them.

And I'm suprised by the Elite numbers as I've only heard folks rave about them. Dunno.

Weaver, Mueller, and Millet scopes which I'd heard were good values had eye reliefs of just over 3inches at the high end.

I just can't see spending for Zeis. Wish those Leupold Riflemen came with click adjustments....
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Old May 8, 2007, 08:43 PM   #14
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Oops, where are you getting 5.3" for Swift Premier - the MOST generous one I found is 4.2" on the the 2.5-10x50 (30mm tube), on 2.5x:

http://www.swfa.com/pc-10055-380-swi...fle-scope.aspx

Looks like Zeiss if you can afford it, or Burris Short Mag or Leupold if you cannot.

I have Muellers and the eye relief stinks on them. They have some good points, but eye relief is NOT one of them.

I love the Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10x40mm - they are a bit high ($375 give or take), but exceptional quality in every area except the eye relief. They are a Vari-X 3 Leupold without the eye relief & warranty, for much less $$, in a nutshell.

Last edited by FirstFreedom; May 9, 2007 at 02:36 PM.
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Old May 8, 2007, 09:15 PM   #15
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Another thing.... on the Burris Short Mags - there appears to be a VERY limited amount of room/spacing on the scope, for mounting those things. This could present a real problem on a turnbolt, particularly a long action turnbolt...could have to resort to offset rings and such (which in turn makes the scope sit higher), which can be a pain in the rear potentially. The .308 you have is a short action, but still, those short mags are incredibly short scopes - I dunno if they'd work with a regular ring/base setup....

http://www.swfa.com/pc-8168-627-burr...fle-scope.aspx

Not to mention that you probably want a larger objective lens than is offered on them.
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Old May 8, 2007, 09:19 PM   #16
Rev Dr
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Here's my source. The question to me is how much salt to take with these numbers.

Swift Premier 3x9x40 Quadraplex recticle
at

http://www.midwayusa.com/technote.ex...eItemID=828890

Tube Diameter: 1"
Objective Bell Diameter: 48mm
Ocular Bell Diameter: 43mm

Adjustment Click Value: 1/4"
Eye Relief: 5.3-3.6"
Exit Pupil Diameter: Not listed by manufacturer

Field of View at 100 Yards:

40’ @ 3x

14.2’ @ 9x

Dimensions, in inches unless otherwise stated:

A: 12"

B: Not listed by manufacturer

C: Not listed by manufacturer

D: Not listed by manufacturer

E: Not listed by manufacturer

F: Not listed by manufacturer
Weight: 13.1oz


That's pretty good field of view too. For $154 plus shipping. There's got to be something wrong with it, right? It won't hold up? It looks too good to be true.
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Old May 9, 2007, 12:32 PM   #17
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Please remember that these eye relief distances are provided by the manufacturers....not an independent testing facility.

Some can claim more eye relief if they set a different standard than another company's standard.
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Old May 9, 2007, 12:38 PM   #18
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That's a great point MJkd. There is nothing like going to the local store to SEE the difference. Next time I go I will carry a string and a tape measure. I wish FF would put his collection up to the tape measure test to compare with the manufacturers.
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Old May 9, 2007, 01:33 PM   #19
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short scopes, long actions...

A weaver or picatinny rail base solves the mounting problems with short scopes on turnbolt rifles.

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Old May 9, 2007, 02:18 PM   #20
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I should do that fisherman - to see what manuf. are stretching the truth and which are not....here are most of the scopes I could measure & post on:


Barska SWAT Extreme Tactical 6-24x60mm, 30mm tube, side focus, target knobs, illum. mil-dot reticle
BSA Airgun 2-7x32mm AO
Burris Compact, 3-9x33mm
Burris Fullfield II 1.75-5x20mm
Bushnell Banner 1.0-4x32mm w/circle-X
Bushnell Banner 1.5-4x32mm
Bushnell Banner 4-12x40 AO
Bushnell Banner 6-18x50mm AO
Bushnell Banner fixed 4x32mm
Bushnell Elite 3200, 2-7x32mm
Bushnell Elite 4200, 2.5-10x40mm
Bushnell Scopechief, 6-20x40mm AO
Bushnell Trophy 1.75-4x32mm
Millett Buck Gold Varmint/Target 6-24x56mm AO, 30mm tube
Mueller Eradicater 8.5-25x50mm
Mueller Sport Dot 3.5-10x44mm
Nikon Prostaff 2-7x32mm
Redfield ESD
Sightron SII 1.5-6x42mm
Sightron SII 3-9x42mm
Simmons Master Series Aetec 2.8-10x44mm
Trijicon Accupoint 1.25-4x24mm
Trijicon/Armson OEG

No longer have a Leupy or Weaver or Swift at present to measure, unfortunately. My brother has a Swift Premier and a Weaver Classic K, however, which I could measure. And I've got one buddy with a Zeiss, and one buddy with about 25 Leupolds. And yes, I do have G.C.S.S (Giant Cheap Scope Syndrome) when it comes to target/range guns.

Only problem might be taking an accurate measurement with my hand up near my eye - I'd kind of need a helper to do the measuring, or as the eyeball stand-in, I think. Anyone else want me to do it? It would be a tad bit of a chore, so I'd like to have some interest expressed before I took the time to find a helper on this......

I would measure at the OPTIMAL viewing distance (the farthest point back just before the field of view begins to diminish), on both the highest magnif. setting & the lowest.
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Old May 9, 2007, 02:24 PM   #21
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If I were conduction the test I'd glue a string to a toothpick. I'd use the toothpick to touch (gently of course) to the center of the viewing glass. I'd slide my face as far back on the axis of the stock until the scope doughnut showed it's ugly eye. Put the string against my eyebrow and then hold for measurement.

I'd do that for each scope on low and then hi power for the spread.
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Old May 9, 2007, 02:31 PM   #22
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This is a little bit of a tangent,but I started mounting my scope even with the back of the trigger guard on my rifles years ago.Since they are all in the same place it makes changing from one rifle to the other easier.That is far enough forward that you have to lean up to it a little,so it's hard for the eyepiece to get back to you under recoil.
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Old May 9, 2007, 02:32 PM   #23
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First Freedom, that's quite a collection. I never understood why people would put Leupolds on their rimfires and range guns. The way technology has been improving lenses and coatings, a Bushnell Banner is enough scope for most chores. I'm amazed at the optical quality of a lot of scopes under $120.

I'd love to see results of your own measurements vs. manufacturer's. I was messing around with the problem of getting accurate results, I think you'll need a helper. I ended up cutting a bunch of cards to different lengths 3", 3.25", 3.5" etc. holding the rifle and fitting a card between the scope and my eye with my trigger hand. I bet there's a better method out there .

Right now I think I might try one of those Swift Premiers. I'd go with the Burris but those short mag scopes have tiny fields of view. (Seems like there's always a trade off).
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Old May 9, 2007, 02:47 PM   #24
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Take a look at these. Tasco titan and world class plus. I used to shoot the world class plus 5omm on main deer rifle. It was even put on top of my old man's .300 mag last season. One hell of a scope and very inexpensive. Tasco also makes some nice 30mm tube scopes with the same lense coating.

heres a link

http://www.gunaccessories.com/Tasco/Titan/index.asp
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Old May 9, 2007, 07:38 PM   #25
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Piercfh, I appreciate the pointer. Looked at the Tascos though I've always found Bushnell's to be clearer and brighter on low end scopes. Both models you mention are listed as having 3.5" eye relief. Whether constant or averaged, I couldn't figure out.
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