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Old July 5, 2014, 08:54 PM   #1
reynolds357
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450 Bushmaster VS. 458 Socom

I am about to either buy or build one of the above. I will use it for hog hunting.
I prefer the Socom due to how it headspaces, but to buy a pre-built upper, it is almost twice as expensive as the Bushmaster. Anyone have any experience with either or both?
Also, anyone know where I could get a Socom Barrel with the chamber already cut and gas block? I don't really care to buy the reamer until I have experience with the rifle.

Last edited by reynolds357; July 5, 2014 at 09:06 PM.
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Old July 5, 2014, 09:58 PM   #2
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I have the 450 but if I could do it all over again id go with the socom... Why? because they can shoot much heavier bullets and if you plan to shoot suppressed heavier bullets are the only way to increase power without going supersonic.

Also currently it seems that .458 bullets (for reloading) are more common than 45 handgun bullets for reloading.

Again just my opinion YMMV
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Old July 6, 2014, 05:07 AM   #3
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Tromix just got back into the .458 SOCOM business.

You can order a bolt and barrel for a reasonable price. (I can't quote a price, since I don't know what length interests you.)

I was on the Wilson Combat backorder list for a while, and cancelled my order when Tony Rumore (Tromix owner) decided to start playing with the SOCOM again (and the .475 Tremor).

My barrel (16" on a pretty messed up "blem" PSA upper), so far, appears to be capable of the proverbial "one ragged hole" at 100 yards. If the shooter could just quite shaking, I might be able to prove it. ...Regardless, it's still doing well enough for me to consider it the primary firearm for this year's Elk hunt.


I actually had a bad extractor shipped with my bolt, but Tony remedied the issue as quickly as possible. Even though I had a single-shot SOCOM for a short time, I have absolutely nothing bad to say about buying a Tromix barrel and bolt. I'm more than satisfied.
Plus, I had the bolt, barrel, and muzzle brake in my hands within 3 days of ordering it. In addition, Tony shipped my bolt back in my hands in just 2 days from the time he received it to test/fix the extractor issue.




So, why did I go with the SOCOM? ...Because I don't like rifle cartridges that headspace on the mouth. I don't like pistol/muzzlestuffer bullets in a rifle. I don't like cartridges being driven/marketed with a SINGLE projectile in mind. Components were more readily available. And, it stacks better in standard magazines. (It also suppresses better, should I find the cash to pay for a .45 caliber rifle suppressor.)


(Edited to clarify.)
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Last edited by FrankenMauser; July 6, 2014 at 04:38 PM.
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Old July 6, 2014, 10:41 AM   #4
reynolds357
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Thanks for the info. 16" barrel is what I am interested in. Did you have to modify the PSA upper? I know Wilson claims that modification of the upper is necessary, but they are the only ones I have heard say that. Looks like I will probably order one, especially if I do not have to modify an upper.
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Old July 6, 2014, 10:48 AM   #5
MarkCO
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Have had both and sold the .458 SOCOM. I have a 16" .450BM and a 18" .450BM-Corvette.

The .450BM suffers from one thing...better marketing of the .458 SOCOM. There are a lot of bullets for the .450BM, and a simple swage of .458 bullets...if you want, lets you use both. There are a few .450BM bullets that are in testing that should be out soon as well.

The main reason I went with the .450BM over the .458 SOCOM is accuracy, which was significant.

With both, it is best to modify the upper to allow the case some room to get out of the ejection port. There are slight differences between the two as far as building, with the .450 being a tad easier.
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Old July 6, 2014, 05:01 PM   #6
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
Thanks for the info. 16" barrel is what I am interested in. Did you have to modify the PSA upper? I know Wilson claims that modification of the upper is necessary, but they are the only ones I have heard say that. Looks like I will probably order one, especially if I do not have to modify an upper.
I used the gunsmith's nightmare (Dremel), some files, and some emery cloth to open the port on the PSA upper. You have to open the port on standard upper receivers, or the SOCOM case will not pass through it.

I did not go to full dimension, however. I believe you're supposed to end up with a port opening of 0.620" (standard is ~0.500"), but I stopped when I had enough clearance for the case to not hit the port during ejection (loaded or empty), plus about 0.015" extra. Mine measures 0.578" tall - with about 0.008" having been removed from the top of the port, and the remainder from the bottom.



As an alternative, there are some uppers available that already have large ejection ports and will run with .458 SOCOM, without modification. I actually started with one of them - the MEGA SBU Side-Charger. That upper ended up being a bit heavier than I wanted, and the side-charging capability was redundant, since I went with a compact reflex sight that did not obstruct the charging handle.
I'm sure some people would actually want the extra weight of that upper, but my .458 SOCOM is an Elk rig that will be packed up and down mountainsides in nasty terrain and weather. So, a dust cover and weight savings was desirable.

The side-charger was set aside for another build (waiting on the barrel), and I went to the A3 upper for the SOCOM.
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Old July 6, 2014, 05:08 PM   #7
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If it was me I would run the socom as well. Just because I already load for the 45-70 which uses the same bullets.

As far as swagging down the bullets can you do that with the more modern steel and copper jacketed hunting ammo? such as Hornady's DGS 500 grain .458?

http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.458-500-gr-DGS/

can you swag steel bullets? I really dont know.
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Old July 7, 2014, 12:30 AM   #8
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
As far as swagging down the bullets can you do that with the more modern steel and copper jacketed hunting ammo? such as Hornady's DGS 500 grain .458?

can you swag steel bullets? I really dont know.
You can swage or draw steel just as easily as copper.
Swaging = increasing diameter. (Often referred to as 'bumping' when only slightly changing the diameter of existing bullets.)
Drawing = decreasing diameter.

However, it isn't a good idea to do draw bullets that are not bonded. The jackets spring back more than the lead core, when removed from the die, and often result in a loose core. Accuracy is dramatically affected, since the jacket can actually spin around the core.

For changing diameters of jacketed bullets there basically two rules:
1. Always go up. (Bump smaller bullets up in diameter, so the jacket remains tight on the core.)
2. If you must go down, go farther than necessary, and then back up. (A .452" projectile made from a .458" projectile, for example, should be drawn down to .450" or so, before being bumped back up to .452".)



....And that's another reason why the SOCOM won, for me.
If I wanted to, I could bump .451/.452 bullets to .458 with a single die. But drawing .458s to .451/.452 would require at least two dies to do it right (one to draw, one to bump/swage).
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Old July 7, 2014, 07:15 AM   #9
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Um, no. Even your "definitions" are wrong.
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Old July 7, 2014, 11:40 AM   #10
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
Um, no. Even your "definitions" are wrong.
That depends on what your point of view is.
For 95% of applications, those 'definitions' are, in fact, wrong.
But in the bullet swaging world, that's the way it works.



And, thanks for taking the time to actually put forth arguments explaining why you believe I'm wrong....
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Old July 7, 2014, 11:44 AM   #11
Bconaway1869
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450 BM

I run a 450 BM and have been and continue to be extremely happy with it.

Availability and quality of Hornady factory ammo is outstanding. I hunt deer and hog with a 16" bushy upper on a built lower. Using a Burris MTAC 1-4 on a QD PEPR mount I can consistently achieve five shot groups with all holes touching at 100 yards. I have never, however, required actually firing a follow up shot on any live target, as the Hornady ammo can be best described as the hammer of death. Tracking has to this point been measured in feet, not yards.

Sig polymer AR mags, which can be found at very inexpensive prices for a two pack with a magazine connector included, will function 100% without modification using 450BM. They single stack 11 or 12 rounds per mag without any mod. Some other mags require mods.

No experience with SOCOM, but no complaints with the 450BM. JMHO.
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Old July 7, 2014, 12:39 PM   #12
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it depends on whether you reload or not.
if you reload, 450 bushmaster, if not, socom.
the factory ammo for both are insanely expensive but 450 uses a 452 diameter bullet so it has a much wider variety of bullet options whereas 458 socom is just that, a 458, less options and usually on the heavier side, making reaching out to longer ranges difficult.
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Old July 7, 2014, 08:23 PM   #13
reynolds357
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I just ordered the 450 Bushmaster upper. It will be $550 delivered and I dont think I can get the parts for a SOCOM for that price. "Lack of bullet choice" is not an issue because I love one of the bullets that is available for it.
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Old July 7, 2014, 09:03 PM   #14
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not a bad price at all. hope you can get ammo for it.
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Old July 7, 2014, 09:16 PM   #15
reynolds357
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Palmetto State Armory will be sending me 100 rounds tomorrow. With Remington/Bushmaster and Hornaday factory support for the Cartridge, I hope ammo supply will hold up. If not, I will have to make brass.
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Old July 8, 2014, 08:55 AM   #16
MarkCO
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Good choice.

You might want to check out http://450bushmaster.net/

Lots of good info on the 450BM, loads, mods, etc. Even the cartridge developer hangs out there.
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Old July 8, 2014, 08:39 PM   #17
reynolds357
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Thanks, I will check out the link.
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