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Old January 14, 1999, 01:30 AM   #1
Jeff Thomas
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These two firms seem to both produce excellent Rem 870's for police tactical and home defense use. Any opinions on the best company? Anyone have experience with both so they can contrast the differences?
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Old January 14, 1999, 07:48 PM   #2
Rich Lucibella
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Jeff-
I think they can be viewed in different fields. Scattergun specializes in creating tactical (sorry, Kodiac) shotguns. Vang specializes in barrel work that reduces recoil and pattern size.

If I ever get off my dead butt, I intend to provide a preliminary review of the Scattergun 870 which I recieved last week. Noteworthy is the fact that the barrel is going off to Vang as the pattern size is simply unacceptable. Scattergun is not responsible for this...it's luck of the draw with Remington, as I understand it.
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Old January 14, 1999, 10:07 PM   #3
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Rich: Please inform us what is unacceptable about the Remington patterns. Isn't a scattergun (cylinder bore) supposed to give a wide pattern? I believe that Vanguard can tighten patterns quite a bit. How much is too much and is it worth it? A Defensive shotgun is meant to be used in CQB and should have a wide pattern supposedly!? I have been drooling over SCT Rem 870 in the Standard Model but am curious about the name brand of the "1100 candlepower light". How tech is this feature per the cost or should I add my own?
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Old January 14, 1999, 11:48 PM   #4
Rich Lucibella
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snowman-
The limited training I've had with the defensive shotgun has emphasized it's role as a "surgical" weapon. In my case, I was shooting a 14"x14" paper with 2 3/4" 00 Buck. At 8 yards (25 ft), the group was 5.75" with one pellet off paper; at 17 yards (50 ft)the group was 13" with two pellets off paper.

The group sizes aren't terrible, but the fliers cause me some concern. I believe the 870 can be tuned to get the entire group within head size at 15-20 yards.

The fore end light provided by Scattergun is a SureFire.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited 01-14-99).]
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Old January 15, 1999, 04:35 PM   #5
olegunftr
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Rich you can borrow one of my vang barrels or guns. His will keep all the pellets of a 00 tactical buck on an 8" dinner plate at 25 yards (if memory serves me right) I've shot 24s at trap with one of his 18 inch riot barrel on my 870

------------------
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Old January 15, 1999, 08:24 PM   #6
Rich Lucibella
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snowman-
There's your answer. Vinny can extend his reach by 50% with a 35% *reduction* in spread.
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Old January 15, 1999, 10:14 PM   #7
Jeff Thomas
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So, if we're willing to spend the cash, is it a good move to have SCT do all the work except the barrel? And then have Vang do their work on the barrel? Personal preference, I'm sure, but what do y'all think?
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Old January 16, 1999, 01:10 PM   #8
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Jeff, If you'll look at VangComp's website you'll notice that they do complete 870 packages, utilizing your 870 or supplying one themselves. They; however, use the MMC ghostring sights (which have a fabulous reputation) and stay with the standard Remington stock, although I believe they shorten the length of pull and install a diff. recoil pad or chamfer the edges. It mainly goes down to your preference on sights - do you want the Scattergun sights or the MMC ghostrings? Obviously, the Vang barrel modification is the heart, next to the sights, of the package. My preference would be to go with the Vang Comp 870 package, barrel modiications done, and dedicated surefire fore-end. As to the MCS porting, I'm not sure as to what the overall opinion on shotgun porting is, that's probably a whole new thread! I have porting on my Marine Mag. 870 (on an improved cylinder bore, I believe) and like the almost absent muzzle rize, but would like the decreased pattern size of the Vang barrel mods. also. EricO
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Old January 17, 1999, 09:39 PM   #9
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The porting is important because it releases the pressure behind the wad. Many times blown patterns are caused by the wad impacting the shot string. I have guns by vang and pattern master.

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Old January 19, 1999, 12:54 AM   #10
Jeff Thomas
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Bought a couple of great VHS tapes yesterday - Gunsite ( http://www.gunsite.net/ ). Watched 'Tactical Shotgun I' this evening, and I learned, among other things, that apparently Gunsite has a tactical shotgun package for sale as well. They use the MMC sights, as well as Vang Comp barrel work. I'll have to check them out - they're about 2.5 hours away, so we'll have to take a ride up there.
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Old January 19, 1999, 08:15 AM   #11
Rosco Benson
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Jeff; you may or may not be able to get "Vang" barrel modifications through the Gunsite smithy. An acquaintance told me that Vang has filed a lawsuit against Gunsite. This may be BS or it may be the facts. It should be easy enough to verify.

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Old January 19, 1999, 08:35 AM   #12
Rich Lucibella
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Gunsite is no longer selling Vang barrels. Ted does his own brand of backboring.
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Old January 20, 1999, 11:31 PM   #13
Jeff Thomas
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You're right about Gunsite not selling Vang Comp barrels anymore, and the law suit as well.

Spoke with Hans Vang today - heck of a nice guy. Willing to spend a few minutes with me to discuss options, clarify some things off his web site, etc. He handles 'dumb' questions with great tact.

All things being equal, I prefer doing business with people I like. Hans seems to be a little more expensive than SCT, but that seems to be explained by the barrel work and MMC sights. And, your comments are correct - he does a package similar to SCT's. All in all, seems to be good value for an exceptional, proven package.

Thanks again for all the comments.
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Old January 21, 1999, 09:33 AM   #14
Rich Lucibella
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Curiouser and curiouser.

Jeff-
Did Vang indicate that he had *filed* a suit?
Rich
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Old January 21, 1999, 09:55 AM   #15
olegunftr
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Please send your $$ to Hans. he is supposed to buy me dinner at the Shot show.

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Old January 21, 1999, 11:07 AM   #16
Jeff Thomas
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Rich - let me answer by saying that I understand the suit is now a matter of public record, and will be tried in the U.S. District Court in Arizona. And, olegunftr, I think your dinner is safe.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited 01-21-99).]
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Old January 23, 1999, 12:31 AM   #17
bruels
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I had Hans Vang comp and port the barrel on my Mossberg 500. He predicted one to two week turnaround. He made it in one week. I am very happy with his work.

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Old March 12, 1999, 06:35 PM   #18
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Has anyone ever sent a Mossberg 9200 to Vang to get it "done"???

i'm considering sending mine to him to do the barrel and put the MMC sights on it, but not sure its its REALLY worth the $$$

any opinions??
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Old May 4, 1999, 06:45 PM   #19
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I have a Scattergun-technologies built Remington 870 (their "standard" model), and am extremely pleased with its patterning ability. With Federal tactical 00 buck it maintains all pellets within a 6 inch radius at 25 yards. It performs similarly with all other loads I have used. I participated in a tactical shotgun training course last weekend using this gun, and it patterened by far the best of any gun that was there (no one had a Vang, however). I opted for the modified choke when I ordered it, but beyond that I think it really is the luck of the draw with the barrel you get from Remington.
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Old May 5, 1999, 02:09 AM   #20
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I have sent a number of 870s to SGT for their refurb work, and have been extremely pleased with the results. Then the barrels went to VangComp. Great guns and now with a lot more life left to them. 8 inches at 25 yards, with Tac Buck, out of the Vang barrel, seems pretty consistent with our guns.
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Old May 5, 1999, 11:24 PM   #21
Jeff Thomas
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Well, it has been quite a while since I opened this thread, and I should tell 'the rest of the story'.

I decided to go with Hans Vang at Vang Comp Systems ( www.vangcomp.com/ - great web site, by the way), and he worked over my 870 Express Super Magnum as well as my son's. SureFire fore-end (618F), 18" ported barrel, MMC sights with tritium front, magazine extension, big head safety, high-visibility (green) magazine follower, side saddle, Giles sling. Hans definitely does everything SCT does, and more. He got the gun back to me 2 weeks early. Everything worked perfectly right out of the chute. The tritium front sight is impressive.

I took a Gunsite Tactical Shotgun course last weekend. Even with my old eyes I was able to impress the younger guys - those MMC sights really helped me sight in with slugs. The porting clearly reduced the recoil. I've practiced with the very 'low ready' position (barrel nearly on the thigh) Gunsite recommends for searching a structure / house, and it is clear the SureFire light could be used to illuminate a room without directly pointing the muzzle at 'non-targets', to put it delicately.

The only problem I had was the side saddle loosened up, and I lost 3 screws out of 6. Today Hans said he send out 6 more, and I'll Loctite them in. Note that nearly everyone else in the class had the same problem - we ran over 300 rounds through these shotguns in 2 days. This blip didn't faze me.

A BATF officer (a fellow student, and a very decent guy) was by my side most of the class. His home defense shotgun had only a bead sight. Our last slug exercise was from 100 yards, and to get on paper he had to aim nearly a foot over and to the right of his target just to get on the paper. Not to get COM, mind you - just to get on paper. With the MMC sights I had no such problem.

The patterns were as solid / small as noted above in other posts. And, slug performance was consistent and tight. I'll head back to the range in the next few weekends to put the guns on bags, sight them in once again at 50 yards, and make sure they're as perfect as I can get them.

By the end of the class I was absolutely sure I'd made the right investment.

Now, I'm not a magazine writer, so I can't literally compare SCT and VCS work (or others, for that matter). However, my shotgun is absolutely fantastic. I have 100% confidence that if I had a problem Hans would fix it. And, any excuse to talk with Hans again would be fine by me - I don't think I've met a nicer fellow in the firearms industry. He also holds the patent for his technique, and it appears his process is being copied by others. They do say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I want to say thanks again to all of the TFL members who gave me feedback in this thread, other threads and by email. You saved me a lot of aggravation, and helped me make a fun and practical investment. Thank you.

Regards from AZ.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited May 06, 1999).]
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Old May 8, 1999, 05:54 PM   #22
Alfadog
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Thanks for the info Jeff.
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Old May 14, 1999, 04:35 PM   #23
bruels
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I would like to add that my Mossberg 500 with VangComped barrel does a number on the ground squirrels that have been tearing up my yard.
Using #8 shot at 12-15 yards gives good, quick kills.


------------------
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Old May 14, 1999, 05:56 PM   #24
snoman
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how do the Vang. barrels do with slugs???


---snoman---
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Old May 17, 1999, 09:40 PM   #25
olegunftr
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all three of mine do.

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