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Old February 3, 2002, 01:19 AM   #1
schapman43
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Suppressed Ruger MK II

I am in the process of assembling a suppressed Ruger MK II handgun. What I'm trying to figure out is just how quiet these are. I have seen suppressors that drop the sound of a fired shot by 39dB. Just how loud was the shot in the first place? Anyone know how much noise the action itself makes? Kinda would like to know what to expect.
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Old February 3, 2002, 03:04 AM   #2
Archie
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Do you have access to sound test equipment?

The sound of the action working is pretty much the same as when you work it manually. If you can test it, you have a baseline. Same for the sound of the report.

It's pointless to get the report lower than the sound of the action.

If you don't have sound test equipment, you'll just have to fake it.
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Old February 3, 2002, 03:15 AM   #3
schapman43
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I would be more than happy with a report that was as loud as the action. I just wish I had the sound testing equipment. Apparently from what I have found the Serbu internally suppressed MK II has a report of 113dB. No clue just how loud that is though.
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Old February 3, 2002, 03:33 AM   #4
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I have shot a Ciener's suppressed MkII and it has about the same noise level as firing a pellet gun. As you go up in caliber, ie .380, 9mm, 45, etc, the noise made by the slide action is very substantial.
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Old February 3, 2002, 03:59 AM   #5
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Don't you have to have a class 3 license to own a suppressed firearm?
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Old February 3, 2002, 08:26 AM   #6
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No. You have to have a Class 3 license to manufacture or sale NFA weapons. You pay a one-time "transfer" tax for each weapon when you buy a NFA weapon if you are a civilian and want to own one.
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Old February 3, 2002, 09:42 AM   #7
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schapman43


Seeing your assembling a NFA item I take it you have applied for and received your Class III License.

If not doing so is in Violation of Federal (and possibly State) Laws. The ATF does not look kindly on this and you can get very jammed up.

TFL does not nor will it ever condone nor encourage any illegal activity.

If in fact you do not have a Class III License I would suggest you immediately stop what your doing!!

If you want to become a Manufacturer of Suppressors contact the ATF and get an application to do so. You will also need to check your State Laws concering Class III to see if they are allowed. Keep in mind that just the possession of certain components can be a criminal offense.

If you just want a suppressor I would suggest purchasing one from an existing manufacturer. There is less paperwork to fill out and in the long run it will be less expensive.
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Old February 3, 2002, 11:46 AM   #8
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If you really want quiet, try CBs. No sound suppressor required and it's completely legal. Of course, there is a drawback in that it probably doesn't generate enough energy to function the action. But, if we're talking about a minimum of noise, you don't want the "clickety-clack" of the action either.

Get nailed by the Feds with an unlicensed suppressed firearm and you can be a roomie with Bubba.
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Old February 3, 2002, 12:06 PM   #9
Mal H
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schapman43 - Please let us know what you mean by "assembling". Are you actually building a suppressor or have you ordered one to assemble to your pistol?
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Old February 3, 2002, 05:27 PM   #10
RenegadeX
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Quote:
Seeing your assembling a NFA item I take it you have applied for and received your Class III License
I think you only need a Class III license to deal in Title II arms. You need a Title II manufacturing license to make a MG or Suppressor. See Title II. Of course, this only applies to US. Perhaps sschapman43 does not live in the US?
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Old February 3, 2002, 07:21 PM   #11
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I always get my "Titles" mixed up... Mr., Other, GySgt? Must be because I have no "Class".

And your right, sschapman43 may live in a less regulated Country. Can't tell as there is nothing in his profile.
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Old February 3, 2002, 09:03 PM   #12
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My experience with my suppressed MK II (muzzle can) is that with subsonic ammunition the sound of the shot makes less sound than the action. If you use longs or CBs in a suppressed weapon it becomes really quiet.

The sound of the action can in any case be removed simply by placing your weak hand thumb behind the bolt and holding it closed. Then operate it as a manual repeater. This also solves the problem of "stove pipe" jams with ammo that is to weak to cycle properly. The trick works with Rugers because the extractor keeps it's grip on the cartridge rim even if the bolt moves a little bit under your thumb. The only other .22 I have tried this with is a Browning Buckmark, and it does not work at all - near 100% failure to extract.

In any case, with a good suppressor the loudest sound you're going to hear is usually that of the bullet "smacking" the target.
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Old February 3, 2002, 11:24 PM   #13
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I have an AAC suppressor on my Buckmark, and it is very quiet. According to AAC, it drops the noise 40dB. However, there is a first round "pop" with the gun. This is alleviated by adding 3-4 mL of water, kroil, etc. to the rear of the suppressor.
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Old February 3, 2002, 11:27 PM   #14
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WOOHHHH SCHMIT!!! Slow down there a bit bud, I guess I didnt quite make my post very clear! By assembling I mean that I am in the process of buying the firearm, then having the barrel threaded, and then after filing the paperwork purchasing a suppressor. I am well aware of the law and the consequences of not following them. My rear is virgin and I intend on keeping it that way! All I wanted to know is who makes a good 22lr suppressor and what I can expect out of it.

Scott


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Old February 3, 2002, 11:27 PM   #15
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Oh yeah, about the "assembling" of a suppressor. I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that you can make all the suppressors you want, as long as:
1. It is legal in your state to own/posses suppressors
2. Any suppressor made MUST be registered and the
transfer tax must be applied for and paid
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Old February 4, 2002, 01:39 AM   #16
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Someone who knows please correct me if wrong, but don't you need *prior* approval from the IRS (that's what I meant to type, not ATF) to construct a new silencer?
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Old February 4, 2002, 02:21 AM   #17
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No, its the ATF. Just to make sure I made myself clear. I am not building a silencer. I am going to buy one after I buy the gun, get the barrel threaded, and then get approval from the ATF to PURCHASE a suppressor.
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Old February 4, 2002, 02:39 AM   #18
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Depending on which manufacturer you choose, they may do the work for you. Some will install the suppressor on your gun for you and give you the whole deal once the form 4 is complete. On some guns, such as the PPK, they remove the barrel and replace it with a longer threaded barrel to support the suppressor.
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Old February 4, 2002, 09:12 AM   #19
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Schapman,

Just wanted to make sure you had your ducks in line. Every now and then we get questions that raise a flag that someone may be doing/contiplating some that is not within the letter of the law. Your use of "assembling" raised that flag for me. Just wanted to cover all the bases.

While I don't have a dedicated .22LR suppressor I do have an AWC Optima for my AR. I also have a .22LR conversion for it. Putting them both on the AR is .

While the Optima is designed for a .223 you can use it with a .22LR. With the conversion in and can on the loudest sound when shooting Supersonic ammo is the bullet crack. This occures approx 3 foot from the end of the can (I know this cause I've shot the gun directly at the ground in front of me and worked my way ot till heard the crack). While you don't need hearing protection it is fairly loud.

However, keep in mind that the sonic crack travels 90 degrees from the bullet path. If someone was standing down range at 100 yards (and given that the bullet is still traveling supersonic) he would hear the sonic crack when the bullet passes him and it would sound like the shot came from right there (100 yards from the gun). This is the real benefit of a suppressor. It suppresses the "blast" from the gun. Even with .223s you can't tell where the shot came from... all you hear is the sonic crack as the bullet passes.

Now, with subsonic .22s the only sound is the cycling of the action and the slap as the bullet hits the target. With my .22 Conversion I can insert a "wedge" in the action to stop it from cycling... then the only sound is the slap on the target.

With .22 subsonic I've shot frogs in a friends pond (approx 75 yards) from his porch without any of the neighbors even having a clue. Frogs... man those things can multiply, so there is never a shortage of targets.
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Old February 4, 2002, 05:15 PM   #20
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schapman43: I envy you and others whose state allows them to have real toys. These are the things I'll do when I retire and move.
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Old February 4, 2002, 06:35 PM   #21
Schmit
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Schapman,

One other thought. Who ever you buy the suppressor from send them your Ruger and have them thread the barrel, don't do it yourself or have someone local do it.

The biggest reason is that if the threading in not perfectly done and the suppressor is keel just a tad the first bullet out could wreck the suppressor. If the manufacturer does it not only will it most probably be done right, but if it's not they should replace the gun(barrel) and suppressor.

The second reason is that most suppressor manufacturers make a thread cap to protect the threads when the suppressor isn't on the gun. They should be able to make one so that you really can't tell there is a cap on the barrel.
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Old February 9, 2002, 03:25 PM   #22
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FWIW, my .22 tube is constructed from (don't laugh too loud) a Maglite 5-cell C cell tube cut off just shy of the button. An aluminum endcap was knurled and fashioned to press fit at the cut end and lock in with Allen screws. The original butt cap is the muzzle endcap. Twelve aluminum baffles were fitted with .5" spacers; .25" holes were drilled in the muzzle cap and baffles. Serial number is stamped on the unknurled portion of the tube. Overall length is 8.5", diameter 1.25. Bigger than store-bought, but fun (and a pain!) to build.

Yes, I applied for and rec'd the proper authorization for building the tube prior to construction. This was back about 15 years ago, when I was lucky enough to have a friend who was gunsmith/machinist and wanted to see if we could acutally make it work. Given my current situation, the general paranoia due to federal scrutiny and the cost of machine shop work, I'd probably just buy from Sound Technologies or Gemtech or Advanced Armament Corp and forget it.

Anyway, in spite of the turn of the century design (19th century, that is), my li'l Maglight Maxim tube has proven durable and fairly effective. Lacking scientific measuring equipment (I spent all my monies on barrels, threading, scopes and beer) its performance has brought plenty of smiles to my skeptical cohorts. On a 16" standard barrelled 10/22 RWS subsonic ammo produces an audible "click-clack" of the action, a slight hiss, and the "smack" of the round on plywood downrange. RWS induces malfunctions, however, due to excessive wax. Yechh!

The 10/22 action does not function at all with CCI CB longs, producing instead a "click" (hammer strike) and "smack" (round striking plywood) that is quite satisfying. Your desk stapler is no doubt louder.

Standard ammo, of course, produces a supersonic crack which nullifies the purpose of the project.

My new favorite round is the Aguila 60-grain "Subsonic Sniper" round. Reliable (no wax!), but smells awful. With the Aguila the High Standard pistol (4" barrel) sounds like an air hose under pressure. Dunk the tube in water, shake it out, and you dampen the sound (pun most definitely intended) to a loud sneeze.

Understand that these impressions were at the range where observers quieted down with each firing with the intention of listening. In the woods or in urban environments firing with the suppressor goes unnoticed; foilage softens sounds and street noises overwhelm them.

While accuracy with the rifle is not effected by the tube, point of impact is. Thus the scope -- a Beeman 1.5-4x airgun scope -- is sighted in for suppressor use. I get sub-1" groups at 25 yards, meaning that I'm as bad a shot with the tube as I am without it. I'm convinced the gun has a crappy trigger ... I know, excuses, excuses. My bull barrel 10/22 gets same hole groups at that range, so it's not just me. (Yeah, right.) I'd like to thread a bull barrel and put a tactical stock on the rifle.

My next step would be to fit decent sights on my High Standard (maybe even install a Weaver base for a scope) and refinish both the tube and gun with a gray moly coating for that "OSS" look.

Well, that's my little .22 project. Hey, my wife won't let me have a Harley. This is cheaper and safer, so what the heck!
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