The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 2, 2002, 10:21 PM   #1
Winston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2001
Posts: 141
Cougar

Any thoughts on the effectiveness of hunting
cougar with

.223
30/30 lever gun
12 gauge (slugs)

Same question but black bear....
Winston is offline  
Old February 2, 2002, 10:38 PM   #2
MeekAndMild
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 2, 2001
Posts: 4,988
Are you going to be stalking the mountain lion or hunting it with dogs?
__________________
In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.
MeekAndMild is offline  
Old February 2, 2002, 11:29 PM   #3
Winston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2001
Posts: 141
Stalking....
Winston is offline  
Old February 3, 2002, 01:24 AM   #4
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
Given how hard it is to deliberately find a lion without the use of dogs, I'd want something that had a bit more Oomph than really needed, and that I could shoot really, really accurately.

IMO, the .223 isn't really enough, and the 12-gauge is not quite accurate enough. Of the three, I'd take the .30-30.

And, pretty much the same choice for black bear.

I'd try to set up for shots inside 100 yards, if at all possible. Dunno where you're hunting, but I'd think in terms of putting out some bait and setting up some 50 to 75 yards away, paying careful attention to the wind.

Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old February 3, 2002, 10:00 AM   #5
Winston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2001
Posts: 141
Thanks

Based on that, I'm bringing my .308.... I'm accurate out to
300yd in field conditions.
Winston is offline  
Old February 3, 2002, 03:51 PM   #6
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
.308 would do just fine. A lion will rarely weigh much over 130 or so, although there are larger ones.

Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old February 4, 2002, 02:22 AM   #7
H&H,hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 504
Winston, I don't know where you are or how you plan to hunt Lion. I under stand your stalking one? Good luck, If I were you I'd use a combination stalk and varmint call. I've been guiding Lion hunters for a while and have only ever seen one with out dogs on several fleeting occasions.
Here is what you do though if your going to stalk one. A. find fresh tracks in the snow follow them as far as you can and get to a good point then sit down and call when calling cats you need to stay put and call for at least 1 hour per stand. The other thing to do is find a recent kill and call from a good vantage point. Chances are if the kill is fresh the lion will be near. The way to find a lion kill is to look for birds (scavangers, eagles, magpies,ETC) along a rock ledge that has brush at the base of it. That's where lions like to hunt. Also you can get on a high spot and look for birds in the trees.
As far as weapons, while Art is correct about the average lion let me tell you about some of the big toms out there. I killed a 174lb tom that measured 7'10", 3 years ago. 2 years ago I had a client kill a 168lb tom that went right at 8', and last year one of my clients killed a 178 lb tom that went 7'11''. These were all taken in the pecos wilderness of NM. So yeah bud leave the .223 at home. The .308 would be the best choice. And a cat will go a long way with a heart shot so try and break his shoulders on the first shot. And make sure and save the meat it is real good.
H&H,hunter is offline  
Old February 4, 2002, 09:11 AM   #8
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
Yeah, lion meat is some of the finest eating you'll ever throw a lip-lock on.

My "Cigar Mountain Momma" lion had a handsome stranger visiting her, a year ago. I put my fist, flat, in his footprint; there was an inch or pawmark all the way around, outside my fist.

"Potpourri" bait: Dead rabbit, steak scraps, fish scraps, sardine oil, smoked oyster oil--and some of that bulk catnip you get at the grocery.

You can stake out a goat, and let him do the calling for you. That's one of the few things a dat-gummed goat's good for.

, Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old February 4, 2002, 08:48 PM   #9
Winston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2001
Posts: 141
Interesting

H&H,

Thanks for some of your insight. I'm hunting cougar in Oregon.
Any thoughts based on that. We can't use dogs. Does baiting
help?

Are there books you could reccomend?

Also, will be keeping an eye out for black bear.
Winston is offline  
Old February 4, 2002, 08:49 PM   #10
Winston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2001
Posts: 141
Varmit Calls

H&H,

What type of varmit calls do you reccomend?
Winston is offline  
Old February 4, 2002, 08:56 PM   #11
Winston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2001
Posts: 141
Art,

Didn't see/read the post on the bait suggestions, Thanks...
Sounds like a good list.....


Winston
Winston is offline  
Old February 5, 2002, 02:37 PM   #12
H&H,hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 504
Winston,
I use a Circe Jack Rabbit in distress mouth call I perfer the sound of the closed reed calls I will many times use the open reed calls because the closed ones tend to freeze up in cold tempuratures. I believe the best call for cats is an light weight electronic caller due to the fact that you need to call for such extended periods. Any distress tone will work.
As far as baits Mt Lions do not respond well to baits which is why they are so hard to trap. Lions perfer their own kills. Bears on the other hand are very baitable. we are not allowed to use baits here in NM so I can't really offer you any advice on the subject as I've never done it.
Here's how we tend to find Lions. Find where the food is I.E. where are the deer and Elk hanging out. find their wintering grounds and you'll find cat sign it's inevitable. Snow is the major factor in finding cat sign. Look for fresh track follow it for a while and by golly chances are you'll find a kill if you look in the places I've previously mentioned. Finding cat sign on dry ground is another thing all together. If we are hunting dry ground the only way we usually have sucess is to strike the dogs off a fresh kill. It's darn near immpossible to hit a lion track on dry ground. There are however guys who do it with great regularity. It's not a skill that I've yet developed.
As far as books on hunting cats with no dogs I don't know of any but you've just given me a great idea!!!

Best of Luck.
H&H,hunter is offline  
Old February 5, 2002, 03:47 PM   #13
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
Ya gotta remember that a lion is sort of an arrogant critter. He's positive he's Big Boss of the food chain.

He's also curious about what's going down on his turf. That's the deal with bait. It's not so much as he thinks of it as a free meal, so much as he's wondering, "Just wottinell is going on in my territory?"

I'll take an old rag and pour some bacon grease on it and tie it to a bush or fence wire. Sure enough, there will be various tracks around, the next morning--and often, lion tracks.

Hey, ya gotta do sumpn. Down here, snow is a rare event!

, Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08474 seconds with 7 queries