Pump shotguns and cold weather

Super-Dave · January 7, 2010, 05:34 PM

How cold does it to get before a pump shotgun starts to freeze up/lock up?

What can you do to delay the malfunctions?

SmokeyVol · January 7, 2010, 05:57 PM

Spent many freezing mornings in a duck blind with a Wincheter model 12 and an Ithaca 37. I have never had a pump shotgun action "freeze up" in the cold. The action is purely mechanical and should not affected by temperaure.

Super-Dave · January 7, 2010, 06:00 PM

so no matter how cold it gets it wont affect the pump shotguns?

The gun oil wont freeze or the metal wont stick together from the humididty in the air?

hogdogs · January 7, 2010, 06:36 PM

Tolerances get looser in cold weather so a thicker lube viscosity is offset by the shrunken metals.

if you have enuff lube in there to notice... you got far too much in the gun.
drops, not ounces are all that is needed and that equates to mils of thickness at most.
Brent

BigJimP · January 7, 2010, 06:39 PM

Sure, at 60 below in the Aleutian chain ......it and everything around it will freeze tight .....

but not a problem on the coldest mornings I've ever seen in a duck blind / even when we had to break ice to put out decoys .....

SAIGAFISH · January 7, 2010, 06:48 PM

not so with my buddys benneli

troy_mclure · January 7, 2010, 07:05 PM

many, many cold dragging my mossy500 thru icy cold water, waiting hours for the birds to come in, even had ice/sleet built up on the rails before, still functioned fine.

Crosshair · January 7, 2010, 07:11 PM

The only lube I have in my pump guns is enough to prevent rust. That is all a pump gun really needs. If you have enough to prevent rust that is also enough for lubrication. Your ammunition will malfunction before the gun does.

I've been out at -30F With my Ithaca and it functioned 100%. The ammunition, not so much at that temp. I should have kept the ammo inside the car and not in the unheated trunk.

5RWill · January 7, 2010, 08:10 PM

As long as you got the strength to pump it hehe it will fire. Now i can't speak for anything below 10 degrees. But i've had my 870 during a 13 degree duck hunt. Cousin had a benelli and his friend a browning silver. Firing pin froze on the browning silver couldn't even fire. Cousin's benelli would only fire one shot. My 870 worked as usual sure ice was flying every where after it had been wet and i pumped one round out of it. But the point being i've never seen a pump fail

xm21 · January 7, 2010, 08:29 PM

I have read that hunters going to hunt in the far north where temps well below zero are the norm should completely degrease the bolt and use graphite to lube the firing pin and bolt.I can see a heavy oil getting thick enough in extreme cold to slow the pin enough to cause light strike failure to fire.Maybe a tribologist will weigh in on this.

TimT · January 7, 2010, 08:58 PM

I've shot my 870 at about -10F. No issues at all.

Before winter, I very lightly dampen a rag with CLP, and wipe it all down. If the gun gets wet, I repeat.

SomeGuyInMidwest · January 7, 2010, 09:12 PM

I would think a larger concern on the longevity of your shotgun would be the condensation that occurs after brining in your gun from the cold. A cold gun brought into a warm environment will attract condensation throughout its innards as well as its exterior. It is that moisture that freezes the next time the gun is taken outside - usually not the oil. When hunting in the cold, try not to bring the gun into a warm environment until you are done.

Pretty much any light weight synthetic oil will be OK. That is as long as you do not give your weapon a bath in it. I do not know the freezing point of various commercial lubricants, but according to WikiAnswers.com, regular 5W30 motor oil will not freeze until -30F - and that is actual temp not a wind chill. Of course, if you really want to be in the cold graphite will work too.

jrothWA · January 8, 2010, 12:42 AM

it's not temperature but cleanliness and lube used.

Have a WinM97 that was detailed in fall and dusted with graphite,
only troubled developed was when the snow built up on trigger guard upper surface that the carrier dropped on as a stop. couldn't feed from magazine but still fired.
Others shotguns froze due to no cleaning and safties not moving.

For today, detail the shotgun and use light lubing with either a teflon based lub ot"Plastilube" it's used on aircraft instrumentation.

xm21 · January 8, 2010, 01:00 AM

Good point SomeGuyInTheMidwest and especially valid when using a blackpowder rifle.On a unsuccesful hunt in Virginia in Feb of 94 my rifle was the only one that fired when clearing the guns to go home and I was the only one who left my rifle outside of the motorhome at night.The other two were afraid of theft and brought theirs in at night,the condensation killed the powder and all Mac and Carl heard when they pulled the trigger was the percussion cap go "pop".

olddrum1 · January 8, 2010, 02:37 AM

In sub zero weather firing pins will freeze in place and trigger mechanisms will do the same if to much oil is applied. You need to really only have the barest of oil film if hunting in sub zero weather for extended periods.

robfromga · January 8, 2010, 08:51 AM

Really? Where are you shooting? I think exposer would be more of a issue than your gun oil freezing.

hogdogs · January 8, 2010, 09:50 AM

rob, we can dress ourselves in layers to maintain good core temp at 50-70 below, no problem but it won't work so well with a weapon...

Plus "unaged corn liquor" don't warm up the internals of a gun like it does in me

Brent

troy_mclure · January 8, 2010, 12:19 PM

for cold weather lube nothing beats the army's "lsf" lubricating semi-fluid.

ive successfully used it on several weapons systems in -40f while in korea.

it is a thick milky white fluid that is often found in surplus stores.

banditt007 · January 8, 2010, 09:19 PM

Crosshair, can you expand on your experience of your ammunition not working correctly at low temps? What type of ammo/how did it react ect ect i'm very interested thanks.

grubbylabs · January 9, 2010, 01:09 AM

I had a problem with my nova pump the other morning, it did not want to pump very well, but I can't remember if I cleaned the two seasons ago or three seasons ago.

jlv08 · January 9, 2010, 11:50 PM

Isn't the Nova a rotary bolt type action? I could see where it would be possible for the rotary style might could encounter lockup but any and mostly all problems can be avoided by using a good lube such as Eezox or Breakfree CLP. Never had a problem with a pump freezing up and I have had Winchesters with rotary bolts to Rems and Mossies with standard style bolts. If it's that cold out there. I ain't goin'! I have parts of me that'll freeze before the gun does! LOL

5RWill · January 10, 2010, 12:55 AM

Watched a nova pump freeze today duck hunting in 15 degree weather. I never thought i would see that happen to a pump. But my friend brags on his benelli a good bit. I looked at him shot my maxus to test it and then i told him "your old 870 had never froze up on you". I don't like the material the benelli is made out of feels like polymer, even though the pump is smooth as butter, i guess im just an 870 guy. 870s will always be my go to pump/never failing gun.

grubbylabs · January 10, 2010, 01:05 AM

Well like I said that was the first problem I have had with mine in over 5 years and I could not honestly tell you how long it has been since I cleaned it. It still worked I just had to put some more effort into it was all.

5RWill · January 10, 2010, 01:12 AM

ya this one also hasn't been cleaned in a while too. Which is most of the time the problem with shotguns malfunctioning, in my opinion unless your hunting in that extreme of conditions which most of us don't. If a gun is cleaned and ready to go it usually works. Or out of the guns i have. My maxus has had problems with horrible old ammunition but other than that it's been the ultimate hunting gun so far. I was honestly nervous when i fired it today. As far as my friends benelli freezing i couldn't figure it out cause i never saw water get splashed on the gun or anything. And it was cold, possibly the coldest weather i've hunted in. To get to the spot we need to get to, we carried an axe broke a trail then walked on the ice all the way to the spot, which was incredibly dangerous but it was about 3 inches thick which around here in northern Mississippi is strange even though we're having this week of a cold front.

jlv08 · January 10, 2010, 02:10 AM

I have repaired shotguns in the past for friends who bring them to me and tell me they are broken.

I get into them whilst repairng them and encounter sludge, burnt powder residue, dirt, vegatation of all sorts, some rust and the proper term for finding a gun in this condition is neglect!

I have been reticent lately to take on guns that simply just need a cleaning and as much as it is to be well versed and to understand firearms safety, one should also be familiar with the proper maintainance of their firearm.

Sludge and burnt powder are the main culprits found in neglected firearms.

It can be a show stopper afield at the wost possible moment and cost you a hunt or create an unsafe condition with the firearm.

Pardon me if I sound like I'm preaching here but gun maintainance is imperative to having a reliable firearm and will ensure proper function when afield or for that goblin who comes a callin'.

Ya don't want to get caught with your pants down.

January 7, 2010, 05:34 PM	#1
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	Pump shotguns and cold weather How cold does it to get before a pump shotgun starts to freeze up/lock up? What can you do to delay the malfunctions? __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell

January 7, 2010, 06:00 PM	#3
Super-Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 795	so no matter how cold it gets it wont affect the pump shotguns? The gun oil wont freeze or the metal wont stick together from the humididty in the air? __________________ If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell Last edited by Super-Dave; January 7, 2010 at 06:18 PM.

January 7, 2010, 06:48 PM	#6
SAIGAFISH Junior member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Location: portland oregon Posts: 308	pump it harder not so with my buddys benneli

January 7, 2010, 07:05 PM	#7
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	many, many cold dragging my mossy500 thru icy cold water, waiting hours for the birds to come in, even had ice/sleet built up on the rails before, still functioned fine. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

January 7, 2010, 07:11 PM	#8
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	The only lube I have in my pump guns is enough to prevent rust. That is all a pump gun really needs. If you have enough to prevent rust that is also enough for lubrication. Your ammunition will malfunction before the gun does. I've been out at -30F With my Ithaca and it functioned 100%. The ammunition, not so much at that temp. I should have kept the ammo inside the car and not in the unheated trunk. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

January 7, 2010, 05:57 PM	#2
SmokeyVol Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 137	Spent many freezing mornings in a duck blind with a Wincheter model 12 and an Ithaca 37. I have never had a pump shotgun action "freeze up" in the cold. The action is purely mechanical and should not affected by temperaure.

January 7, 2010, 06:36 PM	#4
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Tolerances get looser in cold weather so a thicker lube viscosity is offset by the shrunken metals. if you have enuff lube in there to notice... you got far too much in the gun. drops, not ounces are all that is needed and that equates to mils of thickness at most. Brent

January 7, 2010, 06:39 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Sure, at 60 below in the Aleutian chain ......it and everything around it will freeze tight ..... but not a problem on the coldest mornings I've ever seen in a duck blind / even when we had to break ice to put out decoys .....

January 7, 2010, 08:10 PM	#9
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	As long as you got the strength to pump it hehe it will fire. Now i can't speak for anything below 10 degrees. But i've had my 870 during a 13 degree duck hunt. Cousin had a benelli and his friend a browning silver. Firing pin froze on the browning silver couldn't even fire. Cousin's benelli would only fire one shot. My 870 worked as usual sure ice was flying every where after it had been wet and i pumped one round out of it. But the point being i've never seen a pump fail

January 7, 2010, 08:29 PM	#10
xm21 Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2008 Posts: 177	I have read that hunters going to hunt in the far north where temps well below zero are the norm should completely degrease the bolt and use graphite to lube the firing pin and bolt.I can see a heavy oil getting thick enough in extreme cold to slow the pin enough to cause light strike failure to fire.Maybe a tribologist will weigh in on this.

January 7, 2010, 08:58 PM	#11
TimT Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 147	I've shot my 870 at about -10F. No issues at all. Before winter, I very lightly dampen a rag with CLP, and wipe it all down. If the gun gets wet, I repeat.

January 7, 2010, 09:12 PM	#12
SomeGuyInMidwest Member Join Date: January 3, 2010 Posts: 16	I would think a larger concern on the longevity of your shotgun would be the condensation that occurs after brining in your gun from the cold. A cold gun brought into a warm environment will attract condensation throughout its innards as well as its exterior. It is that moisture that freezes the next time the gun is taken outside - usually not the oil. When hunting in the cold, try not to bring the gun into a warm environment until you are done. Pretty much any light weight synthetic oil will be OK. That is as long as you do not give your weapon a bath in it. I do not know the freezing point of various commercial lubricants, but according to WikiAnswers.com, regular 5W30 motor oil will not freeze until -30F - and that is actual temp not a wind chill. Of course, if you really want to be in the cold graphite will work too.

January 8, 2010, 12:42 AM	#13
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	Have hunted in Michigan's UP, it's not temperature but cleanliness and lube used. Have a WinM97 that was detailed in fall and dusted with graphite, only troubled developed was when the snow built up on trigger guard upper surface that the carrier dropped on as a stop. couldn't feed from magazine but still fired. Others shotguns froze due to no cleaning and safties not moving. For today, detail the shotgun and use light lubing with either a teflon based lub ot"Plastilube" it's used on aircraft instrumentation.

January 8, 2010, 01:00 AM	#14
xm21 Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2008 Posts: 177	Good point SomeGuyInTheMidwest and especially valid when using a blackpowder rifle.On a unsuccesful hunt in Virginia in Feb of 94 my rifle was the only one that fired when clearing the guns to go home and I was the only one who left my rifle outside of the motorhome at night.The other two were afraid of theft and brought theirs in at night,the condensation killed the powder and all Mac and Carl heard when they pulled the trigger was the percussion cap go "pop".

January 8, 2010, 02:37 AM	#15
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	In sub zero weather firing pins will freeze in place and trigger mechanisms will do the same if to much oil is applied. You need to really only have the barest of oil film if hunting in sub zero weather for extended periods.

January 8, 2010, 08:51 AM	#16
robfromga Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2009 Location: Augusta, Ga Posts: 240	frozen oil? Really? Where are you shooting? I think exposer would be more of a issue than your gun oil freezing.

January 8, 2010, 09:50 AM	#17
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	rob, we can dress ourselves in layers to maintain good core temp at 50-70 below, no problem but it won't work so well with a weapon... Plus "unaged corn liquor" don't warm up the internals of a gun like it does in me Brent

January 8, 2010, 12:19 PM	#18
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	for cold weather lube nothing beats the army's "lsf" lubricating semi-fluid. ive successfully used it on several weapons systems in -40f while in korea. it is a thick milky white fluid that is often found in surplus stores. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

January 8, 2010, 09:19 PM	#19
banditt007 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2006 Posts: 694	Crosshair, can you expand on your experience of your ammunition not working correctly at low temps? What type of ammo/how did it react ect ect i'm very interested thanks.

January 9, 2010, 01:09 AM	#20
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	I had a problem with my nova pump the other morning, it did not want to pump very well, but I can't remember if I cleaned the two seasons ago or three seasons ago.

January 9, 2010, 11:50 PM	#21
jlv08 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Posts: 122	Isn't the Nova a rotary bolt type action? I could see where it would be possible for the rotary style might could encounter lockup but any and mostly all problems can be avoided by using a good lube such as Eezox or Breakfree CLP. Never had a problem with a pump freezing up and I have had Winchesters with rotary bolts to Rems and Mossies with standard style bolts. If it's that cold out there. I ain't goin'! I have parts of me that'll freeze before the gun does! LOL

January 10, 2010, 12:55 AM	#22
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	Watched a nova pump freeze today duck hunting in 15 degree weather. I never thought i would see that happen to a pump. But my friend brags on his benelli a good bit. I looked at him shot my maxus to test it and then i told him "your old 870 had never froze up on you". I don't like the material the benelli is made out of feels like polymer, even though the pump is smooth as butter, i guess im just an 870 guy. 870s will always be my go to pump/never failing gun. Last edited by 5RWill; January 10, 2010 at 01:06 AM.

January 10, 2010, 01:05 AM	#23
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	Well like I said that was the first problem I have had with mine in over 5 years and I could not honestly tell you how long it has been since I cleaned it. It still worked I just had to put some more effort into it was all.

January 10, 2010, 01:12 AM	#24
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	ya this one also hasn't been cleaned in a while too. Which is most of the time the problem with shotguns malfunctioning, in my opinion unless your hunting in that extreme of conditions which most of us don't. If a gun is cleaned and ready to go it usually works. Or out of the guns i have. My maxus has had problems with horrible old ammunition but other than that it's been the ultimate hunting gun so far. I was honestly nervous when i fired it today. As far as my friends benelli freezing i couldn't figure it out cause i never saw water get splashed on the gun or anything. And it was cold, possibly the coldest weather i've hunted in. To get to the spot we need to get to, we carried an axe broke a trail then walked on the ice all the way to the spot, which was incredibly dangerous but it was about 3 inches thick which around here in northern Mississippi is strange even though we're having this week of a cold front.

January 10, 2010, 02:10 AM	#25
jlv08 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Posts: 122	I have repaired shotguns in the past for friends who bring them to me and tell me they are broken. I get into them whilst repairng them and encounter sludge, burnt powder residue, dirt, vegatation of all sorts, some rust and the proper term for finding a gun in this condition is neglect! I have been reticent lately to take on guns that simply just need a cleaning and as much as it is to be well versed and to understand firearms safety, one should also be familiar with the proper maintainance of their firearm. Sludge and burnt powder are the main culprits found in neglected firearms. It can be a show stopper afield at the wost possible moment and cost you a hunt or create an unsafe condition with the firearm. Pardon me if I sound like I'm preaching here but gun maintainance is imperative to having a reliable firearm and will ensure proper function when afield or for that goblin who comes a callin'. Ya don't want to get caught with your pants down.