Fatality at my gun range

Madball6 · July 20, 2015, 12:05 PM

Just curious if anyone knows or has heard anything specific about this? I'll post anything new I find. I'm ex army, and I know a lot of marines go here to shoot, as it's right outside Camp Lejeune.

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/M...317545521.html

-Madball

DaleA · July 20, 2015, 04:39 PM

Arrrg. Sad and tragic and frustrating. There's more information here.

http://www.jdnews.com/article/201507...978/15170/NEWS

The article says they have ruled it as a suicide and I know ALL lives matter but to me it seems particularly sad when this happens to a young person in our military.

I suppose gun ranges will feel pressure to enact more rules after this...I'm aware some ranges already have rules to try and prevent this.

**Tom Servo** · July 20, 2015, 07:53 PM

Quote:

I'm aware some ranges already have rules to try and prevent this.

Many do. I've had to deal with it. It's a terrible thing for the employees to witness, it's costly to the business, and it shakes customers' feelings of safety on the range.

One common policy is for ranges to refuse rentals to people who come in alone. I don't know if such policies help.

Kosh75287 · July 20, 2015, 08:00 PM

Tragic. ALL lives REALLY DO matter. Especially the lives of those who would defend us.

Doyle · July 20, 2015, 08:06 PM

Quote:

I suppose gun ranges will feel pressure to enact more rules after this...I'm aware some ranges already have rules to try and prevent this.

Several in FL have stopped renting guns due to people wanting to rent a firearm just to off themselves. Others will still rent but only to those who produce a CCW permit (on the theory that those holding a CCW already own firearms and aren't renting one just to commit suicide).

Jay24bal · July 20, 2015, 09:10 PM

What a sad story, so many veterans do not receive they care and attention they badly deserve.

Related to the new rules at ranges, most ranges around me will not rent you a gun unless you have "proof" you are an experienced shooter. Usually, bringing in a personally owned firearm to shoot in addition to the rental will work, or simply having a CCW permit, or having the hunter's safety course certificate OH law requires.

drobs · July 21, 2015, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doyle

Several in FL have stopped renting guns due to people wanting to rent a firearm just to off themselves. Others will still rent but only to those who produce a CCW permit (on the theory that those holding a CCW already own firearms and aren't renting one just to commit suicide).

That won't stop anything.

I worked PT for 5 years at a gun shop / indoor range in the burbs of Chicago. Had about 3 Suicides on the range while I worked there. In Illinois you need a FOID card just to handle a gun / use the range.

Had one fella leave his guns in his car and use a rental to shoot himself. Didn't want his family to have to clean up after him.

I somehow got lucky and wasn't working when those suicides happened.

jmr40 · July 21, 2015, 05:59 AM

Soldiers taking their own lives is happening more often than we realize. A friends son, also a Marine took his life about 2 years ago. The parents had to sell the house and move, they couldn't walk into the bathroom where he died any longer.

There have been 3-4 others from his unit that died after returning. All the others were listed as motorcycle accidents, but those who were close to them said they had been driving them in a very reckless manner ever since returning. Their families strongly suspect suicide rather than accident. But I guess being able to tell someone your son died in an accident is easier somehow.

I read somewhere that suicide doesn't remove the pain, you just pass it along to someone else. I think this is true and it affects many, many others. In this case not only the family, but the gun range and all gun owners are affected.

603Country · July 21, 2015, 10:03 AM

A friend of mine (old Marine) took his own life about a year ago (38 to the temple). He had told me that someday he'd probably do that. I argued against it, and really thought that I had been successful. He was old, and physically failing fast, and in constant pain. I am sure that when he shot himself it was spontaneous. He and I had several things planned over the next few weeks, some of which were important to him. I finished up his remaining woodworking jobs and gave them to his grandkids and great grandkids.

I think that many people are on the edge of being suicidal. On any given day, the right (wrong) combination of factors and pressures could be all it takes to push them to do it.

geetarman · July 21, 2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:

I think that many people are on the edge of being suicidal. On any given day, the right (wrong) combination of factors and pressures could be all it takes to push them to do it.

I think you are exactly right. My health is in decline today. I start chemo tomorrow and am not looking forward to it. Some of the side effects of the different medicines I take today have very explicit warnings about dangers of suicidal thoughts or actions.

I would hate to think I would do that but I can certainly see where the wrong buttons pushed at a particularly vulnerable time could have that outcome.

Stevie-Ray · July 21, 2015, 12:34 PM

Quote:

I think you are exactly right. My health is in decline today. I start chemo tomorrow and am not looking forward to it. Some of the side effects of the different medicines I take today have very explicit warnings about dangers of suicidal thoughts or actions.

I would hate to think I would do that but I can certainly see where the wrong buttons pushed at a particularly vulnerable time could have that outcome.

My wife has come close a few times-she knows that a severe overdose of a few of her pills will do it, so I try to keep her spirits up.

Best of luck in your therapy, I'll pray God holds you close.

geetarman · July 21, 2015, 12:45 PM

^^^^ Thank you. I know it is going to be a new and un-welcome experience.

DaleA · July 21, 2015, 05:18 PM

Geetarman - Sure have enjoyed your posts and hope you get to post lots, LOTS more.

Good luck.

Rattlehead · July 21, 2015, 06:01 PM

Geeterman, best of luck and here's to another new experience for you - being victorious over cancer.

I hope the Marine found peace.

603Country · July 21, 2015, 06:24 PM

Geetarman, I wonder what percentage of the forum population have not, at some low time in their life time, at least lightly considered ending it all. Back when I had my brain tumor, and the unbelievable pain, I thought about it but decided to hold on. Obviously, that was the right decision.

I can't help but think that if I'd had a chance to talk to my friend, I could have talked him out of it. But, sooner or later, he'd have done it.

hartcreek · July 21, 2015, 06:49 PM

Around here there was a rise of train related incidents. Suicidal person would purchase a couple bottles of their favorite brand and take a walk down the railroad track.

It is just a fact of life that if someone is determined to do it there are plenty of ways.

DanTSX · July 21, 2015, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Geetarman, I wonder what percentage of the forum population have not, at some low time in their life time, at least lightly considered ending it all. Back when I had my brain tumor, and the unbelievable pain, I thought about it but decided to hold on. Obviously, that was the right decision.

I can't help but think that if I'd had a chance to talk to my friend, I could have talked him out of it. But, sooner or later, he'd have done it.
603Country is offline Report Post

Glad you held on, and that you made it.

Hopefully you'll inspire others.

Quote:

One common policy is for ranges to refuse rentals to people who come in alone. I don't know if such policies help.

Based on news reports I've seen over the past few years, nope. In some sad cases, they shoot their companions first.

tynman · July 21, 2015, 07:59 PM

Just with in a 6 month time frame at a range by me 4 people did it to themselves too...

Geetarman I hope ever thing works out for you. I always say and think nothing is worth me taking my own life. And now reading a post above "when you take your own life it dosnt end you just pass the pain and problems to other" and I think that is so true. I never thought of it that way but it is very true...

I know it will be hard and it may get worse before it gets better but hang in there... You will be in me and my families prayers.

**JohnKSa** · July 21, 2015, 09:02 PM

It's a real mess for the range owner and can be very expensive & stressful. A friend of mine used to own a range and had someone come in and rent a gun to commit suicide. He ended up having to do the cleanup work himself and also had to field irate calls from family members. The customer who actually discovered the body never came back to the range.

johnelmore · July 22, 2015, 10:02 AM

It may have not been suicide but a failure to follow simple safety rules like keeping it pointed downrange. There are a few youtube videos out there of people shooting themselves with the Glock accidentally. Like I said in a prior post about body armor at the range...its a good idea because many people cant follow simple rules. In another thread I remarked about not patronizing ranges that dont have a strict rangemaster.

The range can be a very fun place, but its a serious place and must be respected.

geetarman · July 22, 2015, 12:51 PM

I like a range with ROs on duty during shooting hours. Rio Salado is like that and they ARE observant and always ready to help.

JimPage · July 22, 2015, 03:36 PM

I bet they didn't have a sign that says "suicide is against range rules.'

Catfish King · July 29, 2015, 12:11 AM

Suicides suck. Really suck. Prayers sent for the surviving family members.

July 20, 2015, 12:05 PM	#1
Madball6 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Posts: 211	Fatality at my gun range Just curious if anyone knows or has heard anything specific about this? I'll post anything new I find. I'm ex army, and I know a lot of marines go here to shoot, as it's right outside Camp Lejeune. http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/M...317545521.html -Madball

July 20, 2015, 08:00 PM	#4
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	Tragic. ALL lives REALLY DO matter. Especially the lives of those who would defend us. __________________ GOD BLESS JEFF COOPER, whose instructions, consultations, and publications have probably saved more lives than can ever be reliably calculated. DVC, sir. انجلو. المسلحة. جاهزة. Carpe SCOTCH!

July 20, 2015, 09:10 PM	#6
Jay24bal Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 735	What a sad story, so many veterans do not receive they care and attention they badly deserve. Related to the new rules at ranges, most ranges around me will not rent you a gun unless you have "proof" you are an experienced shooter. Usually, bringing in a personally owned firearm to shoot in addition to the rental will work, or simply having a CCW permit, or having the hunter's safety course certificate OH law requires. __________________ I like guns. Once Fired Brass, Top quality, Fast shipping, Best prices. http://300AacBrass.com/ -10% Coupon use code " Jay24bal "

July 21, 2015, 12:45 PM	#12
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	^^^^ Thank you. I know it is going to be a new and un-welcome experience. __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

July 21, 2015, 07:59 PM	#18
tynman Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Location: NJ Posts: 361	Just with in a 6 month time frame at a range by me 4 people did it to themselves too... Geetarman I hope ever thing works out for you. I always say and think nothing is worth me taking my own life. And now reading a post above "when you take your own life it dosnt end you just pass the pain and problems to other" and I think that is so true. I never thought of it that way but it is very true... I know it will be hard and it may get worse before it gets better but hang in there... You will be in me and my families prayers. Last edited by tynman; July 21, 2015 at 08:05 PM.

July 20, 2015, 04:39 PM	#2
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Arrrg. Sad and tragic and frustrating. There's more information here. http://www.jdnews.com/article/201507...978/15170/NEWS The article says they have ruled it as a suicide and I know ALL lives matter but to me it seems particularly sad when this happens to a young person in our military. I suppose gun ranges will feel pressure to enact more rules after this...I'm aware some ranges already have rules to try and prevent this.

July 21, 2015, 05:59 AM	#8
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	Soldiers taking their own lives is happening more often than we realize. A friends son, also a Marine took his life about 2 years ago. The parents had to sell the house and move, they couldn't walk into the bathroom where he died any longer. There have been 3-4 others from his unit that died after returning. All the others were listed as motorcycle accidents, but those who were close to them said they had been driving them in a very reckless manner ever since returning. Their families strongly suspect suicide rather than accident. But I guess being able to tell someone your son died in an accident is easier somehow. I read somewhere that suicide doesn't remove the pain, you just pass it along to someone else. I think this is true and it affects many, many others. In this case not only the family, but the gun range and all gun owners are affected.

July 21, 2015, 10:03 AM	#9
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	A friend of mine (old Marine) took his own life about a year ago (38 to the temple). He had told me that someday he'd probably do that. I argued against it, and really thought that I had been successful. He was old, and physically failing fast, and in constant pain. I am sure that when he shot himself it was spontaneous. He and I had several things planned over the next few weeks, some of which were important to him. I finished up his remaining woodworking jobs and gave them to his grandkids and great grandkids. I think that many people are on the edge of being suicidal. On any given day, the right (wrong) combination of factors and pressures could be all it takes to push them to do it.

July 21, 2015, 05:18 PM	#13
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Geetarman - Sure have enjoyed your posts and hope you get to post lots, LOTS more. Good luck.

July 21, 2015, 06:01 PM	#14
Rattlehead Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 244	Geeterman, best of luck and here's to another new experience for you - being victorious over cancer. I hope the Marine found peace.

July 21, 2015, 06:24 PM	#15
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Geetarman, I wonder what percentage of the forum population have not, at some low time in their life time, at least lightly considered ending it all. Back when I had my brain tumor, and the unbelievable pain, I thought about it but decided to hold on. Obviously, that was the right decision. I can't help but think that if I'd had a chance to talk to my friend, I could have talked him out of it. But, sooner or later, he'd have done it.

July 21, 2015, 06:49 PM	#16
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	Around here there was a rise of train related incidents. Suicidal person would purchase a couple bottles of their favorite brand and take a walk down the railroad track. It is just a fact of life that if someone is determined to do it there are plenty of ways.

July 21, 2015, 09:02 PM	#19
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,972	It's a real mess for the range owner and can be very expensive & stressful. A friend of mine used to own a range and had someone come in and rent a gun to commit suicide. He ended up having to do the cleanup work himself and also had to field irate calls from family members. The customer who actually discovered the body never came back to the range. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

July 22, 2015, 10:02 AM	#20
johnelmore Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2013 Posts: 456	It may have not been suicide but a failure to follow simple safety rules like keeping it pointed downrange. There are a few youtube videos out there of people shooting themselves with the Glock accidentally. Like I said in a prior post about body armor at the range...its a good idea because many people cant follow simple rules. In another thread I remarked about not patronizing ranges that dont have a strict rangemaster. The range can be a very fun place, but its a serious place and must be respected.

July 22, 2015, 12:51 PM	#21
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	I like a range with ROs on duty during shooting hours. Rio Salado is like that and they ARE observant and always ready to help. __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

July 22, 2015, 03:36 PM	#22
JimPage Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 941	I bet they didn't have a sign that says "suicide is against range rules.' __________________ Jim Page Cogito, ergo armatum sum

July 29, 2015, 12:11 AM	#23
Catfish King Member Join Date: July 28, 2015 Posts: 29	Suicides suck. Really suck. Prayers sent for the surviving family members. __________________ 'Keep your powder dry.'