colt 1860

dr1445 · October 9, 2014, 08:58 PM

I have a growing ember for an 1860, how about the current $220 price at cabelas, will it go lower?

DoubleDeuce 1 · October 9, 2014, 09:45 PM

That seems to be a decent price for a steel framed 1860. Some folks like those Pietta revolvers. The grip frame is a bit off for me. I am a Uberti fan. They fit me better. The Uberti is always a little more than the Pietta. The Uberti is more true to form also.

I checked the price for the Uberti 1860 at The Possible Shop. It's $325.00.

campingnights · October 9, 2014, 09:51 PM

I doubt it, the sale has been on for awhile now. Better jump while the jumpin is good.

dr1445 · October 10, 2014, 05:57 AM

I heard the uberti has base pin length issues. I have both nma, uberti [1970 lyman .36], a pietta 2013 44 and a 2008 36. both 36 had sight issues, solved by a dovetail front sight, the uberti also had serious jamming issues and requires a heavier trigger spring setting than both my piettas. the cabelas pietta is a $100 less and I am more interested in a shooter than spending the extra $ for the uberti. I will be down to cabelas today to see if the store will honor the internet price.

45 Dragoon · October 10, 2014, 06:33 AM

Dr 1445,
They pretty much all have arbor length problems. Not really sure what kind of "jamming " would be solved with a heavier trigger spring.(?) I set all triggers to 2 1/2 lbs and lighten hammer draw to about 4 lbs. ( typically they come with 8- 12 lbs.+!)

45 Dragoon
www.goonsgunworks.com

dr1445 · October 10, 2014, 08:09 AM

the spring is for light cap strikes, the part that rides over the hammer and locks the cylinder in place has a hard spot about the last 1/4" of the hammer travel, which slows the hammer fall. i solved the jam issue, which was lead shavings caught between the the base pin and frame by chamfering the forcing cone.

44 Dave · October 10, 2014, 09:37 PM

I would suspect timing if the forcing cone was sending lead flying.
That spring issue is when the back end of the bolt climbs the cam on the side of the hammer to reset the bolt.
If you ever have Mike (45 Dragoon) work on an open top Colt you will know how one should perform.

dr1445 · October 11, 2014, 04:43 AM

the uberti is 1970 but it has all matching part numbers including the cylinder. the stop drops into the cylinder slot as it should, so thats the timing. kinda is what it is. your correct about the trigger cam. i was just noting that my late model pietta's do not seem to have that issue and i run a lighter trigger spring.

45 Dragoon · October 11, 2014, 06:41 AM

Thanks 44Dave!!!! ( checks inna mail

)

Dr, you can check the height of the cam or the thickness of the bolt arm (that rides the cam). The cam should not be much thicker than the arm, probably around .030 (off the top of my head). The bolt arm can be thined as well, the tension is too much for the cam to push by, slowing the hammer down (that last click you hear,when the hammer comes to rest) is the arm slipping over the cam. It should be heard not felt (felt only as a slap to the hammer,not as any slowing down).

As far as the timing, the bolt should drop about a bolts width before the lock notch. The timing may be what it is but it is adjustable . There is such a thing as "perfect timing".

BTW, a too strong combo trig/bolt spring will cause the bolt head to gouge the cylinder.

dr1445 · October 11, 2014, 08:59 AM

the bolt drops way early on this one, round about a 1/4". thanks for the tip on the cam height and/or the bolt stop. i was thinking on reducing it but no experience held me back.

Beagle333 · October 11, 2014, 08:16 PM

I like the Cabela's 1860 Piettas.

Almost every revolver I own has had to have just a little timing tweak. The usual problem in any of mine is that the bolt activates a little earlier than exactly perfect, but not as early as what might be desired and instead of striking on the leade ramp and sliding down into the notch, it hits just on the edge of the notch and peens some metal off into the notch and really buggers up the cylinder. I time mine just as mentioned above, to hit exactly a bolt width before the notch so that the force is distributed evenly on the surface of the cylinder with no metal distortion. Sometimes the bolt head is too sharp as well and can use just the lightest bit of stoning to take that knife edge off.
And also not as common, but enough to worry about, is that the bolt head might be too wide for the cylinder notch..... easily checked and fixed before it becomes a problem. Any brand can have these problems.

dr1445 · October 11, 2014, 08:31 PM

you can adjust when the bolt drops but that does not alter the position of the cylinder unless the bolt does not enter the cylinder slot. so even if the bolt drops early and it still enters the slot the cylinder is timed.

Beagle333 · October 11, 2014, 09:10 PM

Not exactly sure what you are saying, or if that is a question. The bolt can drop and go into the slot and the hammer isn't yet cocked and that isn't timed.

45 Dragoon · October 11, 2014, 09:24 PM

You can adjust cylinder rotation. You shorten or lengthen the hand (but only so much)
You can make the bolt drop earlier but not later when adjusting the bolt (unless you put in a cam that is larger in circumference).
The adjustment of the timing is defined by the full cock notch on the hammer in relation to the sear on the trigger. From the start of the hammer pull to the engagement of the full cock notch is when everything has to happen and there is a set time for each to happen.
That , . . . . . . . . . is timing set up.

Also, when dealing with action stops, bolt blocks and THAT kind of set up, the parameters get smaller for error. The tolerances get so tight that just swapping the trigger and bolt screwpins can be enough for the action to bind or not function at all!! Of course when it's done right, there's not a single action that feels better!!!! They are awesome!!

www.goonsgunworks.com

dr1445 · October 12, 2014, 04:49 AM

i stated earlier that there was a jamming issue cause by lead shavings caught between the frame and cylinder. it was advised the problem is a timing issue, now, i take that to mean the cylinder chamber is not lining up with the barrel. changing when the bolt stop engages or adjusting the cylinder rotation with the hand does not change that. the bolt stop still enters the groove in the cylinder with the cylinder at the same place relative to the chamber/barrel location.

45 Dragoon · October 12, 2014, 07:23 AM

Barrel/chamber alignment is maintained by the bolt fit.
If there is a lot of slop in the bolt window (hole in the frame), it will be near impossible to have a solid lockup. If the bolt is too small for the lock notch, there will be misalignment (depending how much movement of course).

Too small means a new bolt. Too big of a window calls for a bolt block to halt lateral movement.

www.goonsgunworks.com

dr1445 · October 12, 2014, 08:10 AM

do you have an idea of what the tolerance window should be between the bolt and the frame? i am thinking to mix up some epoxy with teflon [selflube surface] powder to close the gap. i could bond it either to the frame or bolt stop where exits the frame. is one better than the other? thanks

45 Dragoon · October 12, 2014, 09:03 AM

You dont need epoxy (wont hold up here anyway). Just installing a bolt block is enough (it is fit to zero toll.). The other side of the bolt is supported by the frame. I will post a pic of a bolt block. The alignment must be correct when using a block (there wont be any lat. mov'mt of the bolt). Misalignment with the block installed may cause higher pressures. I would make sure of bore /chamber alignment before putting a block in.

www.goonsgunworks.com

dr1445 · October 12, 2014, 09:22 AM

the selflube mix i make up is good for 2500psi loads, think i will give it try, "nothing ventured nothing gained" + it does not negate the use of a bolt block, which i would like to have a look at since you are likely correct the self lube will not hold up. thanks for your sage input.

45 Dragoon · October 12, 2014, 08:56 PM

good luck.
Before you go to all the trouble of making this bolt THE bolt, it may be "wise " to make sure it is worth it.(just a suggestion)

October 9, 2014, 08:58 PM	#1
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	colt 1860 I have a growing ember for an 1860, how about the current $220 price at cabelas, will it go lower?

October 9, 2014, 09:51 PM	#3
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	I doubt it, the sale has been on for awhile now. Better jump while the jumpin is good. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

October 11, 2014, 06:41 AM	#9
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Thanks 44Dave!!!! ( checks inna mail ) Dr, you can check the height of the cam or the thickness of the bolt arm (that rides the cam). The cam should not be much thicker than the arm, probably around .030 (off the top of my head). The bolt arm can be thined as well, the tension is too much for the cam to push by, slowing the hammer down (that last click you hear,when the hammer comes to rest) is the arm slipping over the cam. It should be heard not felt (felt only as a slap to the hammer,not as any slowing down). As far as the timing, the bolt should drop about a bolts width before the lock notch. The timing may be what it is but it is adjustable . There is such a thing as "perfect timing". BTW, a too strong combo trig/bolt spring will cause the bolt head to gouge the cylinder. Last edited by 45 Dragoon; October 11, 2014 at 07:21 AM.

October 11, 2014, 08:16 PM	#11
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	I like the Cabela's 1860 Piettas. Almost every revolver I own has had to have just a little timing tweak. The usual problem in any of mine is that the bolt activates a little earlier than exactly perfect, but not as early as what might be desired and instead of striking on the leade ramp and sliding down into the notch, it hits just on the edge of the notch and peens some metal off into the notch and really buggers up the cylinder. I time mine just as mentioned above, to hit exactly a bolt width before the notch so that the force is distributed evenly on the surface of the cylinder with no metal distortion. Sometimes the bolt head is too sharp as well and can use just the lightest bit of stoning to take that knife edge off. And also not as common, but enough to worry about, is that the bolt head might be too wide for the cylinder notch..... easily checked and fixed before it becomes a problem. Any brand can have these problems. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

October 11, 2014, 09:10 PM	#13
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Not exactly sure what you are saying, or if that is a question. The bolt can drop and go into the slot and the hammer isn't yet cocked and that isn't timed. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

October 9, 2014, 09:45 PM	#2
DoubleDeuce 1 Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2013 Posts: 101	That seems to be a decent price for a steel framed 1860. Some folks like those Pietta revolvers. The grip frame is a bit off for me. I am a Uberti fan. They fit me better. The Uberti is always a little more than the Pietta. The Uberti is more true to form also. I checked the price for the Uberti 1860 at The Possible Shop. It's $325.00.

October 10, 2014, 05:57 AM	#4
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	I heard the uberti has base pin length issues. I have both nma, uberti [1970 lyman .36], a pietta 2013 44 and a 2008 36. both 36 had sight issues, solved by a dovetail front sight, the uberti also had serious jamming issues and requires a heavier trigger spring setting than both my piettas. the cabelas pietta is a $100 less and I am more interested in a shooter than spending the extra $ for the uberti. I will be down to cabelas today to see if the store will honor the internet price.

October 10, 2014, 06:33 AM	#5
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Dr 1445, They pretty much all have arbor length problems. Not really sure what kind of "jamming " would be solved with a heavier trigger spring.(?) I set all triggers to 2 1/2 lbs and lighten hammer draw to about 4 lbs. ( typically they come with 8- 12 lbs.+!) 45 Dragoon www.goonsgunworks.com

October 10, 2014, 08:09 AM	#6
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	the spring is for light cap strikes, the part that rides over the hammer and locks the cylinder in place has a hard spot about the last 1/4" of the hammer travel, which slows the hammer fall. i solved the jam issue, which was lead shavings caught between the the base pin and frame by chamfering the forcing cone.

October 10, 2014, 09:37 PM	#7
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	I would suspect timing if the forcing cone was sending lead flying. That spring issue is when the back end of the bolt climbs the cam on the side of the hammer to reset the bolt. If you ever have Mike (45 Dragoon) work on an open top Colt you will know how one should perform.

October 11, 2014, 04:43 AM	#8
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	the uberti is 1970 but it has all matching part numbers including the cylinder. the stop drops into the cylinder slot as it should, so thats the timing. kinda is what it is. your correct about the trigger cam. i was just noting that my late model pietta's do not seem to have that issue and i run a lighter trigger spring.

October 11, 2014, 08:59 AM	#10
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	the bolt drops way early on this one, round about a 1/4". thanks for the tip on the cam height and/or the bolt stop. i was thinking on reducing it but no experience held me back.

October 11, 2014, 08:31 PM	#12
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	you can adjust when the bolt drops but that does not alter the position of the cylinder unless the bolt does not enter the cylinder slot. so even if the bolt drops early and it still enters the slot the cylinder is timed.

October 11, 2014, 09:24 PM	#14
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	You can adjust cylinder rotation. You shorten or lengthen the hand (but only so much) You can make the bolt drop earlier but not later when adjusting the bolt (unless you put in a cam that is larger in circumference). The adjustment of the timing is defined by the full cock notch on the hammer in relation to the sear on the trigger. From the start of the hammer pull to the engagement of the full cock notch is when everything has to happen and there is a set time for each to happen. That , . . . . . . . . . is timing set up. Also, when dealing with action stops, bolt blocks and THAT kind of set up, the parameters get smaller for error. The tolerances get so tight that just swapping the trigger and bolt screwpins can be enough for the action to bind or not function at all!! Of course when it's done right, there's not a single action that feels better!!!! They are awesome!! www.goonsgunworks.com Last edited by 45 Dragoon; October 11, 2014 at 09:58 PM.

October 12, 2014, 04:49 AM	#15
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	i stated earlier that there was a jamming issue cause by lead shavings caught between the frame and cylinder. it was advised the problem is a timing issue, now, i take that to mean the cylinder chamber is not lining up with the barrel. changing when the bolt stop engages or adjusting the cylinder rotation with the hand does not change that. the bolt stop still enters the groove in the cylinder with the cylinder at the same place relative to the chamber/barrel location.

October 12, 2014, 07:23 AM	#16
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Barrel/chamber alignment is maintained by the bolt fit. If there is a lot of slop in the bolt window (hole in the frame), it will be near impossible to have a solid lockup. If the bolt is too small for the lock notch, there will be misalignment (depending how much movement of course). Too small means a new bolt. Too big of a window calls for a bolt block to halt lateral movement. www.goonsgunworks.com Last edited by 45 Dragoon; October 12, 2014 at 07:50 AM.

October 12, 2014, 08:10 AM	#17
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	do you have an idea of what the tolerance window should be between the bolt and the frame? i am thinking to mix up some epoxy with teflon [selflube surface] powder to close the gap. i could bond it either to the frame or bolt stop where exits the frame. is one better than the other? thanks

October 12, 2014, 09:03 AM	#18
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	You dont need epoxy (wont hold up here anyway). Just installing a bolt block is enough (it is fit to zero toll.). The other side of the bolt is supported by the frame. I will post a pic of a bolt block. The alignment must be correct when using a block (there wont be any lat. mov'mt of the bolt). Misalignment with the block installed may cause higher pressures. I would make sure of bore /chamber alignment before putting a block in. www.goonsgunworks.com

October 12, 2014, 09:22 AM	#19
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	the selflube mix i make up is good for 2500psi loads, think i will give it try, "nothing ventured nothing gained" + it does not negate the use of a bolt block, which i would like to have a look at since you are likely correct the self lube will not hold up. thanks for your sage input.

October 12, 2014, 08:56 PM	#20
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	good luck. Before you go to all the trouble of making this bolt THE bolt, it may be "wise " to make sure it is worth it.(just a suggestion)