Reload for Every day carry

[Sarge]

The Montana Gold 40 cal. bullet review in Post 24 above is mine. It's not a bad bulk bullet; but if I were just loading a couple hundred rounds for defense and I wanted a hollow-point, I'd use the Hornady XTP. Good all around bullet in any caliber, with some expansion and excellent penetration.

[bedbugbilly]

I have taken CCW classes in two different states - AZ and MI. It gets brought up each time in regards to carrying reloads for SD. Everytime, it has been advised not to do it for the implications that have already been given.

I'll shoot reloads all day long at cans, paper and critters - but for SD rounds in the handgun I CCW - factory only. I'd much rather spend a little $ on factory loaded SD ammo than to save a couple of $ and perhaps have it come back to haunt me if I should ever be unfortunate enough to have to defend myself.

But - it's a personal decision . . .

[Real Gun]

I tried to resist the temptation to attack the premise, which I took as needing help sourcing defensive type hollow points in 9mm. Unless addressing that directly, I thought I would be off in the weeds, i.e. hijacking.

[MarkCO]

The "myth" that factory ammo is better than reloads is just a myth. The "myth" that a "reloaded" self defense bullet is any more or less lethal than a factory bullet is just a myth. Those myths are both propagated by ignorance of; facts, case law and the legal burden of proof.

And, yes, I have testified in court and have been endorsed by courts as a ballistics and shooting reconstruction expert. I think if you research the foundations of the myths, case law and actual court testimony, you will agree that these myths should fall like the house of cards they really are.

I too resisted attacking the premise of the myth, but it just keeps coming back. I will not post on the myths again, so if you want more, just send me a message.

[rodfac]

Most professional trainers in my experience do not recommend use of hand loads for SD purposes...the reasons given had to do with legal issues and quality control. I subscribe to that recommendation and carry with good SD ammunition, praying that I'll never be forced to use it for the purpose it was designed. I load with what our local LEO agencies use.

In that regard, I've just finished Massad Ayoob's, "Concealed Carry" by Gun Digest books. His remarks in the chapter on SD ammunition are well worth the price of the book.

Best Regards, Rod

[LAH]

I only shoot factory 22LR, everything else is handloads regardless of use.

[steveNChunter]

I think the Hornady XTP is a good SD hollow point that isn't too expensive to reload.

I load target rounds for my .45 acp with Hornady 185 gr HAP's, which are a hollow point based on the XTP but designed for target shooting.

I carry Hornady Critical Defense 185 gr. It makes for a seamless transition from target ammo to carry ammo, so it's as good as practicing with what you carry.

I bought a couple hundred XTP's the other day because I found a local deal on them, but I have yet to decide if I'll load them purely for targets or also carry them.

Loading your target ammo with a similar bullet of the same weight, to the same OAL, with a similar powder charge makes your time at the range more relevant to staying proficient with your carry ammo. HAP's and XTP's are great for that.

[WESHOOT2]

I am with Mr. LAH........

[LAH]

I am with Mr. LAH

Among the hard headed fer sur'.

[Real Gun]

But the topic is what 9mm SD bullet to buy. Got any suggestions?

[WESHOOT2]

If civilian, might I recommend the conventional Remington 115g JHP, loaded over 3N37 or WAP/Silhouette, or HS6, for a readily controllable 1370fps minimum?
If insistent on a 'modern' bullet, I recommend the 115g and 124g Speer Gold Dot, same powders.

These bullets have a significant and proven record of effective performance on humans.

[steveNChunter]

Real gun, I know my post was about reloading for my .45, but they make the XTP in 124 and 147 gr for 9mm. Either should make a fine SD bullet to reload.

The Speer Golt Dot is great too. I've had some of the ammo but never loaded the bullets.

[Magnum Mike]

would not want to be on the stand in front of a jury with a prosecutor implying that I wanted to create the perfect killing load

Total hog wash! Use of DEADLY FORCE is just that!!
I carry the same load as I practice with!
You will have other things to worry about in a shooting.
Time to CLOSE this thread!!

[LOLBELL]

I use Hornady's 115 XTP. It is a good bullet at a good price. I have not used these for their intended purpose and hope to the Good Lord in Heaven I never have to, but seeing what they will do to a gallon water jug and in wet phone books I trust they will suffice if ever called upon.

[Mavrick79]

I'm sorry but the argument of a handload being possibly more lethal than factory ammo is weak at best. You could put the hottest most lethal 9mm handload up against a larger caliber using plain old factory ammo such as a .44mag and it wouldn't come close in comparison.

So if it really is true that your going to hang for using a handload then your also going to hang for not using the smallest caliber available, think about it.

[steve4102]

Mavrick, I have thought about it and you are correct. IMO the reason caliber/cartridge size has not been brought up is that Massad Ayoob sells and endorses factory SD ammunition. Wouldn't put any money in his pocket to preach the evils of Big Guns vs Small Guns a a SD weapon of choice. His writings and opinions are based on selling Factory Ammo, not keeping us out of jail.

[born2climb]

Only in America do criminals have the luxury of being killed in the line of duty with designated rounds. So if you have to beat a burglar to death with a claw hammer...is it significant that you have a factory handle in it, or is one you carved out of a freshly-cut hickory admissible? Criminal attacks victim...victim shoots perp in self-defense...prosecution attacks load used in victim's firearm...they ought to hand out medals for that kind of STUPID.

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by Mavrick79

I'm sorry but the argument of a handload being possibly more lethal than factory ammo is weak at best. You could put the hottest most lethal 9mm handload up against a larger caliber using plain old factory ammo such as a .44mag and it wouldn't come close in comparison.

So if it really is true that your going to hang for using a handload then your also going to hang for not using the smallest caliber available, think about it.

Originally Posted by steve4102

Mavrick, I have thought about it and you are correct. IMO the reason caliber/cartridge size has not been brought up is that Massad Ayoob sells and endorses factory SD ammunition. Wouldn't put any money in his pocket to preach the evils of Big Guns vs Small Guns a a SD weapon of choice. His writings and opinions are based on selling Factory Ammo, not keeping us out of jail.

Well, I've thought about it, and Mavrick is incorrect. The argument that a "handload is deadlier" is only one reason that using handloads is a bad idea. Further, just because neither you nor Mavrick agree with the argument does not mean that it could not make a SD shooter's defense more complicated and, consequently, more expensive. With that said, while a prosecutor could make the "loading up a super-deadly bullet" argument, that's not the issue that really concerns me. The issue that worries me is the matter of gunshot residue, the rules of evidence, and expert testimony. I explain this in more detail here.

I do not sell factory ammunition, nor make any money off factory ammunition sales.

[born2climb]

So we've devolved to the point that a person has the right to self-defense only when using a politically acceptable weapon? Where is common sense in all this? Who got to decide that a murderer/robber/rapist had such "rights"?

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by Real Gun :

But the topic is what 9mm SD bullet to buy.

Actually, the first question asked in the OP is "does anyone reload for EDC?"

Like many others here, only ammo I personally use in my firearms, other than .17 and .22 rimfire, are my reloads. For huntin', plinkin' or SD/HD, I use what has proven to work the best in the intended firearm. Other than for plinkin', payin' a little more for something that works better seems to be the smart choice. For hunting and SD/HD, very seldom was the first load recipe/component combo I tried the best. Regardless tho, the key to accuracy in my handguns has always been more related to practice than to the ammo.

[Real Gun]

Actually, the first question asked in the OP is "does anyone reload for EDC?"

That's a yes/no answer or implied context rather than an invitation to debate loading for SD. It prequalifies a person to answer the real question of what bullet is both recommended and value priced, which would not include the oft-mentioned Gold Dot, which I find at about 22 cents each rather than the 13 cents each that I located and suggested as something to check out. See earlier post.

I do load for "EDC" but only for one gun, a Ruger SP101 .357 3", which is too punishing in my hands using readily available, off-the-shelf ammo. I am not one who shoots .38 Special in a .357. Even +P are too mild for me, so I am loading in between using non-magnum powders in .357 cases.

[Gster]

"does anyone reload for EDC?"

Yes. No matter what I'm carrying, be it my .45, .40, or 9mm. They all are stuffed with XTPs.

[45long]

I know that with very clean or new brass, a fresh lot of primers that have been sealed to the case and Horandy XTPs with a heavy crimp. Yes they would be better than just using off the self stuff because I do extensive research on my personal gun with this round and have used it for hunting ,so I KNOW it's potential.

BUT, having said all that, I'd still use off the shelf just because of the chance it could be used against me in court by a shmuck lawyer trying to make a name for himself.

---and I too would love to know the actual times it's actually been used in court..but not just the reloads but other "key" words like MAGNUMMMM, +PPPPP, POWER POINT,SABRE,HYDRO-SHOCKKKKK,GRIZZLY,ect... You get the picture. Theatrics can play a role in court , especially to un-knowledgeable people.

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by born2climb

So we've devolved to the point that a person has the right to self-defense only when using a politically acceptable weapon? Where is common sense in all this? Who got to decide that a murderer/robber/rapist had such "rights"?

No, that entirely mischaracterizes the issue. The defender has not been deprived of his right to SD, nor is it illegal to use handloads for SD or HD. Just because something is legal doesn't make it a good idea, though.

As others have noted, though, that really wasn't the original question.

[LOLBELL]

So we've devolved to the point that a person has the right to self-defense only when using a politically acceptable weapon? Where is common sense in all this? Who got to decide that a murderer/robber/rapist had such "rights"

It's not about rights. It's about the Almighty Dollar. There is not a lawyer out there that would bring up, in a court of law, the projectile used to dispatch a bad guy if he was concerned with your rights. His concern is your money, and how much of it he can acquire for himself.