9mm gel test: Underwood 115 gr Lehigh Extreme Penetrator (and S&B 115 gr FMJ)

Andrew Wiggin · March 24, 2015, 11:02 AM

Link to video of test

Underwood 115 gr Lehigh Extreme Penetrator solid copper projectile fired from Glock 22 with Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel into calibrated 10% gelatin.

BB: 585.3 fps, 3.3"

Impact velocity: 1,289 fps
Penetration: ~30" of gelatin & 2.5 feet
of water
Retained weight: 115.0 gr

No expansion.

For comparison, we took a look at some cheap 9mm ball. The cheapest I could find was S&B 115 gr FMJ. It was almost exactly 100 fps slower and penetrated quite a bit less. I expected lower velocity and less penetration but not to that degree. It was also surprising to see that plain, vanilla FMJ produced more tissue disruption than the vaunted Extreme Penetrator.

On my way out to test, I looked at my phone and saw that tnoutdoors9 had posted a video testing the very thing I was about to do. I was not thrilled, especially since he does such great work. It turns out that my test was a little different than his anyway. Take a look at his test too, if you have time.

Ozzieman · March 24, 2015, 12:35 PM

Interesting test. but what use is a round like that for the common SD gun?
Military or SWAT sure.

Andrew Wiggin · March 24, 2015, 01:32 PM

It penetrates deeply, which might be useful for large animal defense but that invites the question of why you would choose a 9mm for large animal defense. Night be interesting from a carbine.

Law enforcement has no need that private citizens might not also have.

1-DAB · March 24, 2015, 04:29 PM

might be useful if you have 3 bad guys stacked up in a line, and a dangerous fish in a tank behind them.

Andrew Wiggin · March 24, 2015, 04:50 PM

Aha! It's for shark defense.

Limnophile · March 24, 2015, 09:30 PM

Two or three of those in the bottom of a high-cap mag might be nice in case the bad guy has taken cover behind a penetrable barrier into a lengthy gunfight. Or, at the top of the mag if you want to shoot through your door at someone trying to break in.

Water-Man · March 24, 2015, 11:10 PM

^^Shooting through your door at someone is a GO TO JAIL ticket. Bad idea.^^

Limnophile · March 24, 2015, 11:51 PM

^Old folks who do it don't seem to go to jail. I think in most such cases the bad guy is trying to bust the door down or pry it open, and has a long record of arrests. Those considerations coupled with the fraility of the old folks defending themselves seem to be good enough for the cops and prosecutors.

In general, though, I agree its best not to shoot through an outside door or any cover, unless a bad guy is delivering fire from behind the cover.

Snyper · March 26, 2015, 06:06 PM

Quote:

^^Shooting through your door at someone is a GO TO JAIL ticket. Bad idea.^^

Blanket statements are seldom true

It's perfectly legal in NC to shoot through a door in order to stop an intruder from breaking in.

As for the "penetrator" ammo, it's just one more useless gimmick

March 24, 2015, 11:02 AM	#1
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	9mm gel test: Underwood 115 gr Lehigh Extreme Penetrator (and S&B 115 gr FMJ) Link to video of test Underwood 115 gr Lehigh Extreme Penetrator solid copper projectile fired from Glock 22 with Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel into calibrated 10% gelatin. BB: 585.3 fps, 3.3" Impact velocity: 1,289 fps Penetration: ~30" of gelatin & 2.5 feet of water Retained weight: 115.0 gr No expansion. For comparison, we took a look at some cheap 9mm ball. The cheapest I could find was S&B 115 gr FMJ. It was almost exactly 100 fps slower and penetrated quite a bit less. I expected lower velocity and less penetration but not to that degree. It was also surprising to see that plain, vanilla FMJ produced more tissue disruption than the vaunted Extreme Penetrator. On my way out to test, I looked at my phone and saw that tnoutdoors9 had posted a video testing the very thing I was about to do. I was not thrilled, especially since he does such great work. It turns out that my test was a little different than his anyway. Take a look at his test too, if you have time.

March 24, 2015, 12:35 PM	#2
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Interesting test. but what use is a round like that for the common SD gun? Military or SWAT sure. __________________ It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe. Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.

March 24, 2015, 11:51 PM	#8
Limnophile Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Location: Issaquah, Washington Posts: 1,032	^Old folks who do it don't seem to go to jail. I think in most such cases the bad guy is trying to bust the door down or pry it open, and has a long record of arrests. Those considerations coupled with the fraility of the old folks defending themselves seem to be good enough for the cops and prosecutors. In general, though, I agree its best not to shoot through an outside door or any cover, unless a bad guy is delivering fire from behind the cover. Last edited by Limnophile; March 27, 2015 at 12:57 AM.

March 24, 2015, 01:32 PM	#3
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	It penetrates deeply, which might be useful for large animal defense but that invites the question of why you would choose a 9mm for large animal defense. Night be interesting from a carbine. Law enforcement has no need that private citizens might not also have.

March 24, 2015, 04:29 PM	#4
1-DAB Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2010 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 474	might be useful if you have 3 bad guys stacked up in a line, and a dangerous fish in a tank behind them.

March 24, 2015, 04:50 PM	#5
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Aha! It's for shark defense.

March 24, 2015, 09:30 PM	#6
Limnophile Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Location: Issaquah, Washington Posts: 1,032	Two or three of those in the bottom of a high-cap mag might be nice in case the bad guy has taken cover behind a penetrable barrier into a lengthy gunfight. Or, at the top of the mag if you want to shoot through your door at someone trying to break in.

March 24, 2015, 11:10 PM	#7
Water-Man Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 2,126	^^Shooting through your door at someone is a GO TO JAIL ticket. Bad idea.^^