June 25, 2012, 09:34 PM | #2376 | ||
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There is controversy over a third gun found at the murder scene, an SKS. FBI director Mueller says there was no third gun. A recorded conversation between a BAFTE agent and a gun dealer point to a different conclusion. From a tape made available to CBS: Quote:
Last edited by thallub; June 25, 2012 at 09:52 PM. |
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June 26, 2012, 08:14 AM | #2377 |
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I wonder why the Zapata case isn't getting traction, and it doesn't get the media attention that Brian Terry's murder garnered.
Maybe because it happened in Mexico, the American public doesn't have as strong a reaction to it? Or maybe they think that because it happened in Mexico it's irrelevant where the murderers got their weapons or where the weapons originated? Or maybe the Jaime Xapata murder gets overshadowed in the media by the congressional hearings and the contempt proceedings. But even with members of congress - they'll mention Brian Terry but never mention Jaime Zapata |
June 26, 2012, 09:19 AM | #2378 | |
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June 26, 2012, 11:11 AM | #2379 |
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The House has scheduled the floor vote on for contempt for this Thursday.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/...ry?id=16648169 The NRA is saying this will be a graded vote - meaning it is unlikely a Rep will keep their A+ rating if they decline to vote for the contempt motion. http://www.examiner.com/article/nra-...pt-of-congress Given that there is already a solid majority of NRA A-rated Representatives in this Congress, it looks like the NRA will either see a lot of defections or Holder is going to be held in contempt of Congress. |
June 26, 2012, 12:45 PM | #2380 |
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An NRA graded vote is going to give Holder supporters more cover to say that there is no substance to F&F - it's merely election year politics.
But I think the NRA has to do this. For one thing it sends a strong messgage (hopefully) to future administrations that if the party in power tries to use a government agency to do something as insidious as manipulate public opinion on a Second Amendment issue - the NRA will be there to sound the alarm and take up the fight. |
June 26, 2012, 12:58 PM | #2381 |
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I expect the vote to be completely along party lines... wouldnt matter if they had video proving the allegations... Politics as usual...
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June 26, 2012, 01:22 PM | #2382 | |
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Even the most strident of the administration's supporters in the media are now acknowledging the incompetence and severity of the operation, but they're still swearing it doesn't lead to Main Justice. Even though it was an OCDETF op.
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June 26, 2012, 01:44 PM | #2383 | |
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June 26, 2012, 01:52 PM | #2384 |
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My guess is that if it's not party line or very close, it will be Republicans voting against rather than Dems voting for but I expect very close to party line.
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June 26, 2012, 02:20 PM | #2385 |
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While the committee vote was polarized along party lines, I think a vote in general assembly will be a different matter.
Many Democrats who took office in 2006 were moderates, and quite a few had favorable NRA grades. More than a few of those guys signed off in support of the plaintiffs in Heller and McDonald.
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June 26, 2012, 02:28 PM | #2386 |
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True, but the pressure from the party "leaders" will be IMMENSE on this issue. It's hard for me to imagine many of them withstanding that pressure.
I'm not bashing the Dems on this either. I would expect a party line vote if the tables were turned. It's why the system is so broken. If Holder were a Republican, everything the Dems have said and done would be coming from Republican mouths, and vice-versa. |
June 26, 2012, 04:45 PM | #2387 |
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I'd expect a party-line vote in an election year, but I think Holder is going to be fired in a few weeks, and pardoned after the election.
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June 26, 2012, 05:49 PM | #2388 |
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The thing about it is, each branch tends to get a little bit testy when its power in the checks-and-balances system is belittled or challenged.
IE, Congress tends to react in a more united front when its authority is actually challenged. So, this could go by party-line - it being an election year as others have noted, but it could also surprise some and come as a Congressional slap to an Executive that has tried to run both around and over Congress. |
June 26, 2012, 08:39 PM | #2389 |
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How does the NRA grade a representative who is absent or decides not to vote? I could see some of that happening if a nose count shows approval of the contempt vote. The administration might let some reps off the hook.
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June 26, 2012, 08:43 PM | #2390 |
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The Minority Whip is already blaming "NRA pressure" for causing some Democrats to vote for contempt, so it looks like it won't be a straight party-line vote.
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June 26, 2012, 09:41 PM | #2391 |
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The 'commentators' on MSNBC were cursing out the NRA for pushing the investigation. Uh, just answer the questions and defuse this. Stupid politicians - always the coverup.
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June 27, 2012, 06:10 AM | #2392 |
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I don't know if anyone has posted this, but here goes.
The Five Biggest Differences between Fast & Furious and Operation Wide-Receiver
Source: Jason Howerton, The Blog at TheBlaze.com
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June 27, 2012, 06:31 AM | #2393 |
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I beleive you're forgetting another important difference between F&F and Wide Receiver.
Operation Wide Receiver came before F&F and involved attempting some new tactics, there were no precedents when the operation was executed. In Fast & Furious however, the appointees who planned the operation took a known failed tactic from a failed operation and repeated it - defying all logic and common sense. |
June 27, 2012, 07:35 AM | #2394 | |
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This is why I am puzzled when sympathizers of Fast & Furious keep bringing up Wide Receiver. Surely they have to realize that continually bringing up Wide Receiver is eventually going to lead to a comparison between the program and Fast and Furious is going to look even worse when that happens? I don't think that is a comparison you want the average American to even think about making if you are trying to defend Fast and Furious. From a spin control standpoint it just seems like amateur hour at the White House. When even the New York Times is going "If it is so straightforward, then just give them the documents already and put this to rest", you've got a publicity problem. |
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June 27, 2012, 08:52 AM | #2395 | |
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Project Gunrunner was the program under which Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious operated. Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious were run by the same career bureaucrat; SAC Newell of the BATFE. Gunrunner remains an ongoing BATFE operation. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/programs/project-gunrunner/ Last edited by thallub; June 27, 2012 at 08:58 AM. |
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June 27, 2012, 09:07 AM | #2396 | ||
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June 27, 2012, 09:17 AM | #2397 | |
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Thereby "proving" the administration's (and the Mexican government's) dubious claim that the cartels were arming themselves through gun shops in the U.S. |
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June 27, 2012, 09:58 AM | #2398 | |
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Fortune Magazine: The Truth About Fast and Furious
An article was just published in Fortune Magazine titled "The Truth About Fast and Furious"
Quote:
It's a long arduous read but very insightful. It is either a smoking gun about political intrigue or one of the best constructed smokescreens in the history of a free press. The timing of this article is "too coincidental to be coincidental", considering the vote on Holder. I have to wonder if somebody was holding this back for just the right moment. In either case, it's a must read for anyone interested in this case.
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June 27, 2012, 10:10 AM | #2399 |
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I gave it a glance and vote for politically convenient smokescreen.
All this could have been said ages ago.
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June 27, 2012, 10:13 AM | #2400 | |
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Glenn is probably right in his assessment, but I've seen few articles that covered what is known this thoroughly. |
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