*URGENT* Please Help With Powder Problem

riverwalker76 · March 16, 2010, 10:06 AM

I'm used to loading with Accurate 2230, so I know what it looks like. I opened up a fresh can I bought last week, and it doesn't look right.

What do you all think?

Picture #1 is powder from previous can / lot .... Looks right!!!

Picture #2 is powder from new Can / different lot .... Looks Wrong!!!

Picture 1

Picture 2

I updated the photo of Picture 2. This is a more accurate depiction of what is in the can. I shook the can up really well, and it appears that the powders got mixed somehow. What was lying on top was the flakes. Talking with Johan of Accurate right now to get this resolved.

mrawesome22 · March 16, 2010, 10:08 AM

That's scary. #2 is definitly some other flake powder.

riverwalker76 · March 16, 2010, 10:11 AM

I think I'll call Accurate and see what to do.

oneounceload · March 16, 2010, 10:15 AM

First pics looks like shotgun pellets to me.......

Brian Pfleuger · March 16, 2010, 10:16 AM

Maybe they just forgot to squish that first batch?

riverwalker76 · March 16, 2010, 10:18 AM

The first lot is what 2230 is supposed to look like. It's a very small spherical powder. Anyone who owns it can verify that.

You have to understand that my camera magnified it to 100 times, so it looks a lot bigger than what it is.

Tex S · March 16, 2010, 10:20 AM

I want to hear what Accurate has to say. Keep us posted.

riverwalker76 · March 16, 2010, 10:21 AM

Will do. I'm calling them now.

**Mike Irwin** · March 16, 2010, 10:39 AM

Damn.

Can't see the pix until I get home.

Stupid employer.

riverwalker76 · March 16, 2010, 11:41 AM

Talked to Johan from Accurate, and they are sending me another canister.

He said to send this one back to them, and they would cover the costs and my time for doing this.

**Unclenick** · March 16, 2010, 11:48 AM

That canister was clearly a mixture of two different powders, one flake and one spherical. The flakes look like fast shotgun or pistol powder and could cause a rifle round to burst the gun.

Did it still have the seal on it when you bought it? I would hate to think some saboteur was going around mixing powders and trying to get someone killed.

Master Blaster · March 16, 2010, 12:45 PM

mostlikely its a packaging machine screwup, they mixed two powders.

TheBigO · March 16, 2010, 12:46 PM

It is lucky that someone that has seen the powder before got the weird mix. I know that if I were using it I would have really known no difference. When I have changed powders in the past I can see the difference from brand to brabnd but assume that is how it is supposed to be.

zippy13 · March 16, 2010, 12:54 PM

I'm interested to learn if they recall the entire lot. Did you record the numbers from the container?

Scrapperz · March 16, 2010, 01:24 PM

Wow, I also look carefully at the powders before I actually start loading with it. I do recall when I was little my dad taught me to burn a cap-full of each powder we used and told me to remember how they burn compared to each other. This was to give me an idea of how the fast burning, slow burning and black powder all burned in the atmosphere. He then told me this is not fool proof. I understood what he was trying to do and it was a good example of what to look for, but only when burning a few at the same time would you be able to compare the duration, length of flame, and color pattern using a video camera would you be able to see a difference.

Like I said it's not fool proof but it was an interesting experiment for me at a very young age.

Jim243 · March 16, 2010, 10:22 PM

Looks like some where in the mfg process the powder got flattened. It is ball powder just flattened out. Win 231 looks like that, it is to get it to burn faster (both sides at the same time and more surface area), but Win 231 is suppost to look like that. Don't know about Accurate 2230?

Jim

**Mike Irwin** · March 17, 2010, 12:24 AM

Actually, it MIGHT be correct.

The powder we buy is known as cannister powder. It's really a blend of powder from several, or many, different manufacturing lots, each with different properties, designed to give consistent characteristics from can to can over the years.

One of the ways that the burning characteristics of a particular cannister lot can be modified is through mixing in powder that has been physically altered so as to change its burning rate.

Granted, that's a very peculiar look, and would also give me pause.

Question, though. Are any of Accurate's powders normally flattened into a flake-type like what's seen in the second picture?

I only use AA 7, and that's EXTREMELY fine balls.

riverwalker76 · March 17, 2010, 12:44 AM

I showed this to the rep via email, and he said something isn't right. They are replacing it. We'll see how it turns out.

jimkim · March 17, 2010, 02:36 AM

What is the lot number?

I looked on their website and they have a recall, but neither one is 2230.

Quote:

a) Powder Type: 3100

Lot Number: 12002 (lot number on bottom of can)

If you have this lot number, please call

b) Powder Type: 4064

Lot Number: 14202 (lot number on bottom of can)

If you have this lot number, please call:

1 800 497 1007 or 1 800 416 3006

Uncle Buck · March 17, 2010, 06:58 AM

Good catch. Even if it turns out the powder is correct, you are cautious enough to be curious and ask questions.

Definitely want to hear how this ends.

SL1 · March 17, 2010, 08:53 AM

MIke Irwin,

I seriously doubt that a powder manufacturer would ever mix a round "ball" powder with a flake or extremely flattened "ball" powder in order to "blend" powders for canister trade. The two powders will separate by vibration and gravity, so that the resulting individual loads would be HIGHLY variable.

SL1

**Mike Irwin** · March 17, 2010, 09:01 AM

Generally I would agree with you, SL1, but I have used many powders over the years that show a mix of both spherical and flattened powders.

In this case, though, I agree that in this case the difference in relative size seems to be too great.

But I again raise the question, does Accurate make any flake type powders? I'm not aware of any, so I'm really wondering what is going on here.

Slamfire · March 17, 2010, 10:09 AM

Accurate Arms flake powders are shotgun/pistol powders.

You don't want that in your centerfire rifle.

**Mike Irwin** · March 17, 2010, 10:35 AM

Slam,

Which ones are flake powders?

As I said, I only use AA 7, and that is a very fine ball powder.

Edit: Ah! The Solo powders are flake powders.

OK.

Edward429451 · March 17, 2010, 11:10 AM

That is weird. Maybe someone stole the powder and filled it back up with whatever before returning it for his cash back. Then you bought it.

March 16, 2010, 10:16 AM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Maybe they just forgot to squish that first batch? __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 16, 2010, 10:39 AM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Damn. Can't see the pix until I get home. Stupid employer. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 16, 2010, 11:48 AM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	That canister was clearly a mixture of two different powders, one flake and one spherical. The flakes look like fast shotgun or pistol powder and could cause a rifle round to burst the gun. Did it still have the seal on it when you bought it? I would hate to think some saboteur was going around mixing powders and trying to get someone killed. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 17, 2010, 12:24 AM	#17
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Actually, it MIGHT be correct. The powder we buy is known as cannister powder. It's really a blend of powder from several, or many, different manufacturing lots, each with different properties, designed to give consistent characteristics from can to can over the years. One of the ways that the burning characteristics of a particular cannister lot can be modified is through mixing in powder that has been physically altered so as to change its burning rate. Granted, that's a very peculiar look, and would also give me pause. Question, though. Are any of Accurate's powders normally flattened into a flake-type like what's seen in the second picture? I only use AA 7, and that's EXTREMELY fine balls. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 17, 2010, 06:58 AM	#20
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Good catch. Even if it turns out the powder is correct, you are cautious enough to be curious and ask questions. Definitely want to hear how this ends. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

March 16, 2010, 10:06 AM	#1
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	URGENT Please Help With Powder Problem I'm used to loading with Accurate 2230, so I know what it looks like. I opened up a fresh can I bought last week, and it doesn't look right. What do you all think? Picture #1 is powder from previous can / lot .... Looks right!!! Picture #2 is powder from new Can / different lot .... Looks Wrong!!! Picture 1 Picture 2 I updated the photo of Picture 2. This is a more accurate depiction of what is in the can. I shook the can up really well, and it appears that the powders got mixed somehow. What was lying on top was the flakes. Talking with Johan of Accurate right now to get this resolved. Last edited by riverwalker76; March 16, 2010 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Updated Pic

March 16, 2010, 10:08 AM	#2
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	That's scary. #2 is definitly some other flake powder.

March 16, 2010, 10:11 AM	#3
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	I think I'll call Accurate and see what to do.

March 16, 2010, 10:15 AM	#4
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	First pics looks like shotgun pellets to me.......

March 16, 2010, 10:18 AM	#6
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	The first lot is what 2230 is supposed to look like. It's a very small spherical powder. Anyone who owns it can verify that. You have to understand that my camera magnified it to 100 times, so it looks a lot bigger than what it is.

March 16, 2010, 10:20 AM	#7
Tex S Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 909	I want to hear what Accurate has to say. Keep us posted.

March 16, 2010, 10:21 AM	#8
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	Will do. I'm calling them now.

March 16, 2010, 11:41 AM	#10
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	Talked to Johan from Accurate, and they are sending me another canister. He said to send this one back to them, and they would cover the costs and my time for doing this.

March 16, 2010, 12:45 PM	#12
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	mostlikely its a packaging machine screwup, they mixed two powders.

March 16, 2010, 12:46 PM	#13
TheBigO Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Location: Bellingham Posts: 122	It is lucky that someone that has seen the powder before got the weird mix. I know that if I were using it I would have really known no difference. When I have changed powders in the past I can see the difference from brand to brabnd but assume that is how it is supposed to be.

March 16, 2010, 12:54 PM	#14
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	I'm interested to learn if they recall the entire lot. Did you record the numbers from the container?

March 16, 2010, 10:22 PM	#16
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Looks like some where in the mfg process the powder got flattened. It is ball powder just flattened out. Win 231 looks like that, it is to get it to burn faster (both sides at the same time and more surface area), but Win 231 is suppost to look like that. Don't know about Accurate 2230? Jim

March 17, 2010, 12:44 AM	#18
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	I showed this to the rep via email, and he said something isn't right. They are replacing it. We'll see how it turns out.

March 17, 2010, 08:53 AM	#21
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	MIke Irwin, I seriously doubt that a powder manufacturer would ever mix a round "ball" powder with a flake or extremely flattened "ball" powder in order to "blend" powders for canister trade. The two powders will separate by vibration and gravity, so that the resulting individual loads would be HIGHLY variable. SL1

March 17, 2010, 09:01 AM	#22
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Generally I would agree with you, SL1, but I have used many powders over the years that show a mix of both spherical and flattened powders. In this case, though, I agree that in this case the difference in relative size seems to be too great. But I again raise the question, does Accurate make any flake type powders? I'm not aware of any, so I'm really wondering what is going on here. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 17, 2010, 10:09 AM	#23
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Accurate Arms flake powders are shotgun/pistol powders. You don't want that in your centerfire rifle.

March 17, 2010, 10:35 AM	#24
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Slam, Which ones are flake powders? As I said, I only use AA 7, and that is a very fine ball powder. Edit: Ah! The Solo powders are flake powders. OK. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 17, 2010, 11:10 AM	#25
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	That is weird. Maybe someone stole the powder and filled it back up with whatever before returning it for his cash back. Then you bought it.