Ballistics for black powder .22 Short

Carmady · March 30, 2013, 02:38 PM

I've searched a lot and keep finding the same stuff.

The .22 Short with 4gr of fine black powder, and a 29gr bullet.

Any ideas on the fps/energy on these? I'm trying to find a modern .22 that's close to the black powder .22 Short, but first I need to know what I'm looking for. Thanks.

Hawg · March 30, 2013, 03:04 PM

The closest thing you're going to find is a cb cap.

Jim Watson · March 30, 2013, 03:39 PM

I don't know about .22 Short, but .22 LR with 4.5 gr fine black and a 40 grain bullet pulled from old ammo and loaded in new primed brass is doing right at 1000 fps. Swiss FFFFg got up to 1070 fps and Null B to 1140 fps.

Might we then assume that .22 Short Match at 830 fps is pretty close to the BP load in velocity?
Chamber pressure from a grain or so of smokeless is surely going to be higher than with 4 grains of black, so this is not a license to shoot fresh smokeless ammo in an antique gun.

Carmady · March 30, 2013, 04:57 PM

Thanks, guys.

I think I'll try CB Caps to be on the safe side.

From CCI:
CB Short - 29gr, 710 fps, 32 ft lbs
Short Target - 29gr, 830 fps, 44 ft lbs
.22LR Sub-sonic HP - 40gr, 1050 fps, 98 ft lbs (slightly less than their other .22LR std vel rounds)

Jim Watson · March 30, 2013, 04:58 PM

What gun?

Carmady · March 30, 2013, 05:46 PM

It's an Iver Johnson 1900 7-shot .22.

Jim Watson · March 30, 2013, 07:53 PM

Yup, CB caps.

Like I said, standard velocity smokeless is little faster than black but pressure is higher.

Boomer58cal · March 30, 2013, 09:48 PM

Is it .22 short only? If it fits longs maybe try Aguila colibri 350 fps and super colibri 500 fps. Both are long rifle cases with 20g bullets and no powder. Just trimming compound. If it's short only than cb cap is best option.

Carmady · March 31, 2013, 10:23 PM

It doesn't say the caliber, but I think I've read that it'll shoot Longs. I've loaded the chamber with LR's, and the noses were right at the end of the chambers. The cylinder is about 15/16" long. It's so short I think Shorts may be best because they might get a bigger boost from the powder since they'll be in the chamber longer.

Boomer58cal · March 31, 2013, 11:22 PM

If it's old enough to be black powder than I'd use CB caps. The generally don't contain powder. The force of the primer alone propelling the bullet. If shorts fit I'd get the least powerful short I could find. That's what I would do. I have herd of people pulling the bullet out of rim fire ammo and replacing it with black powder , but I wouldn't try it unless it was my only option.

Boomer

Magnum Wheel Man · April 1, 2013, 08:08 AM

I collect these guns...

Modern shorts are the same pressure as longs & long rifles...

I use Colibri's & Super Collibri's in all my collections, from my earliest revolvers, to my pair of Stevens Crackshots ( though they generally aren't recommended for rifles )

only issue I have is for a Butler replica twist barrel single shot chambered in 22 short... I've yet to shoot it yet, haven't decided, that since it's a replica, to shoot it with modern shorts, or to have it chambered for long, & shoot the Colibri's in it ???

BTW... the colibri round only uses primer compound & a much lighter weight bullet ( I think the bullet more resembles a 22 caliber pellet than a normal 22 caliber bullet )

March 30, 2013, 02:38 PM	#1
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Ballistics for black powder .22 Short I've searched a lot and keep finding the same stuff. The .22 Short with 4gr of fine black powder, and a 29gr bullet. Any ideas on the fps/energy on these? I'm trying to find a modern .22 that's close to the black powder .22 Short, but first I need to know what I'm looking for. Thanks.

March 30, 2013, 09:48 PM	#8
Boomer58cal Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Location: closer than you think Posts: 967	Is it .22 short only? If it fits longs maybe try Aguila colibri 350 fps and super colibri 500 fps. Both are long rifle cases with 20g bullets and no powder. Just trimming compound. If it's short only than cb cap is best option. __________________ The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war. We're from the government, we're here to help

March 31, 2013, 11:22 PM	#10
Boomer58cal Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Location: closer than you think Posts: 967	If it's old enough to be black powder than I'd use CB caps. The generally don't contain powder. The force of the primer alone propelling the bullet. If shorts fit I'd get the least powerful short I could find. That's what I would do. I have herd of people pulling the bullet out of rim fire ammo and replacing it with black powder , but I wouldn't try it unless it was my only option. Boomer __________________ The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war. We're from the government, we're here to help

April 1, 2013, 08:08 AM	#11
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I collect these guns... Modern shorts are the same pressure as longs & long rifles... I use Colibri's & Super Collibri's in all my collections, from my earliest revolvers, to my pair of Stevens Crackshots ( though they generally aren't recommended for rifles ) only issue I have is for a Butler replica twist barrel single shot chambered in 22 short... I've yet to shoot it yet, haven't decided, that since it's a replica, to shoot it with modern shorts, or to have it chambered for long, & shoot the Colibri's in it ??? BTW... the colibri round only uses primer compound & a much lighter weight bullet ( I think the bullet more resembles a 22 caliber pellet than a normal 22 caliber bullet ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

March 30, 2013, 03:04 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	The closest thing you're going to find is a cb cap.

March 30, 2013, 03:39 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I don't know about .22 Short, but .22 LR with 4.5 gr fine black and a 40 grain bullet pulled from old ammo and loaded in new primed brass is doing right at 1000 fps. Swiss FFFFg got up to 1070 fps and Null B to 1140 fps. Might we then assume that .22 Short Match at 830 fps is pretty close to the BP load in velocity? Chamber pressure from a grain or so of smokeless is surely going to be higher than with 4 grains of black, so this is not a license to shoot fresh smokeless ammo in an antique gun.

March 30, 2013, 04:57 PM	#4
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Thanks, guys. I think I'll try CB Caps to be on the safe side. From CCI: CB Short - 29gr, 710 fps, 32 ft lbs Short Target - 29gr, 830 fps, 44 ft lbs .22LR Sub-sonic HP - 40gr, 1050 fps, 98 ft lbs (slightly less than their other .22LR std vel rounds)

March 30, 2013, 04:58 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	What gun?

March 30, 2013, 05:46 PM	#6
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	It's an Iver Johnson 1900 7-shot .22.

March 30, 2013, 07:53 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Yup, CB caps. Like I said, standard velocity smokeless is little faster than black but pressure is higher.

March 31, 2013, 10:23 PM	#9
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	It doesn't say the caliber, but I think I've read that it'll shoot Longs. I've loaded the chamber with LR's, and the noses were right at the end of the chambers. The cylinder is about 15/16" long. It's so short I think Shorts may be best because they might get a bigger boost from the powder since they'll be in the chamber longer.