.54 cal reloading problem

davebell18 · November 10, 2011, 08:40 PM

Hey everyone. I have a .54cal Connecticut Valley Arms Inc. Woodsman muzzle loader. I poured some bullets with someone I don't talk to any more who knew a lot about black powder. I know he used soft lead to make these rounds. I shot them out of his rifle many times and the bullets went down nicely even after 6 rounds. My rifle, even after I clean it, the bullet goes down very hard. I sometimes have to hammer it down. Once it gets about half way down the barrel, the bullet goes down smooth. I am wondering if there is something wrong with the gun's upper barrel that it is so tight and maybe a gun smith could fix it. I forgot what the bullets are called but they are not round balls. They look like a bullet with a sleeve on the bottom where grease is used. Thanks for anyone's help.

Dave

arcticap · November 11, 2011, 05:31 AM

Sometimes when bullets are home made they won't all be the same diameter. However it sounds like your barrel may not be thoroughly clean. It could have some powder or lead residue in it that should be brushed out with a bronze bore brush.
There's also several CVA Barrel Blaster products including a foam bore cleaner that can help to remove crusty powder deposits.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CEAQ8wIwAw

http://www.cva.com/cleaning.php

Sometimes it's necessary to swab the barrel after every shot with a black powder solvent to remove any crusty powder residue that's left behind.
And the rifling grooves can also suffer from becoming embedded with accumulated lead which requires brushing and/or a lead solvent to help remove it.
Applying lube to the bullets before loading them can also help to prevent leading.

Shooters Choice Lead Remover:

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CEYQ8wIwAA

davebell18 · November 13, 2011, 09:56 AM

Arcticap, every time I clean my rife, I do use a bronze brush and Hopp's cleaning solution. I guess I guess I don't understand how his rife I could shoot 6 times before running the brush down but mine I cant even do one shot with out having a hard time getting the bullet down.

Thanks

**4V50 Gary** · November 13, 2011, 10:31 AM

Bullet casted from his mold fits his rifle.

I presume that you were using his bullet mold and that it may be casting a bullet slightly too large for your rifle. You might want to slug the bore to see what diameter it is. Then measure your bullet to see if it's too tight.

Pahoo · November 13, 2011, 10:51 AM

Whenever I run into a problem like this, I go back to the basics and proceed with the process of elimination. ...

1) I go back to a good known factory RB.
2) I mike my patches to determine if they are out of spec. I usually stick with .015 Lubed
3) On the bench for target; I clean between every shot. Every fifth time for fun.

Would add that the last class we taught, all of a sudden, my PRB's got tight. I was using the states patches which were labeled as .015. Went back to my patches and they loosened up again. Took some samples home with me and found that they were oversized, just just enough to be a problem. ....

Now, I run my own lead and when I run RB's, I always make certain that it is pure lead. I roll check, weigh and mic. them. I lay these aside for target use. The others that are not so good, I keep for fun shooting or classes. Some are completely rejected. ...

A pure lead PRB, is very forgiving and easy to work with. When loading, they yeild quite easily. ...

Be Safe !!!

davebell18 · November 13, 2011, 12:05 PM

4v50 Gary
How to you slug the bore for the dia. of the barrel?

Pahoo,
I am not to sure what many of your abbreviations mean. I do not use patches. I use the bullets that are not a round ball and look like a bullet with a sleeve at the bottom that are filled with grease.

The gentleman that I shot with also has a .54 cal rifle. Yes I used the same mold to cast my bullets as his. Like I said before, his gun shoots many down range before having a problem, as for mine, after cleaning after every shot with a bronze brush and solvent and patch, the bullet is hard to push down the first half of the barrel and then it goes down very nicely. His gun has shot thousands already but mine was brand new. This is a stupid question but is there a break in period for the rifle? I reload pistol, rifle, and shot gun and have never heard of this but maybe is different for black powder. Thanks again everyone.

Oh also when I start pushing the bullet down into the rifle I DO see the bullet spinning on the groves of the barrel and the remaining lead pushing up a little towards the top of the bullet.

FrontierGander · November 13, 2011, 01:17 PM

be interesting to know what bullet he cast for it

davebell18 · November 13, 2011, 02:58 PM

Here are some pictures of what they look like.

Hawg · November 13, 2011, 03:33 PM

Those are supposed to load hard. The rifling is engraved on them when they're loaded. The problem isn't with your rifle, the problem was with his if they loaded easy.

Pahoo · November 13, 2011, 03:40 PM

I missed that and even after reading your post again, I was still confused as you what you were casting and loading. I now see that you are shooting what is called a lubed "Conical". Have never seen this particualy one but looks much like the Maxi-Balls I run. For a minute, I thought you were using Power-Belts and then I thought you were taling about the R.E.A.L. conicals. ....

Some of these types will load harder than others. My Maxi's are loading just fine but suspect the day will come when the mold will open up too much and they too will start to really drag. The REAL's that I ran and load, got very hard to load and I measured my bore and prior to lubing, I rolled them on a board with a flat file on top, mic'd them back to spec. and they worked fine. Finally gave up on the REAL's and stuck to my Maxi Balls and Hunters. ....

Be the way, I lube my Maxi's the full length or in all the grooves. ....

Sorry to be confusing on the abbreviations and PRB= (Patched Round Balls). ..

Be Safe !!!

jaguarxk120 · November 13, 2011, 03:43 PM

The bullet your using is a Lyman No. 540619 425 grain weight.

Hawg · November 13, 2011, 03:45 PM

They're maxi balls altho shorter than the ones I used to use. Mine were very difficult to get started but once past short starter depth they went on down easy.

Pahoo · November 13, 2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

They're maxi balls altho shorter than the ones I used to use.

True and made by Lyman for TC and others. TC never made these but like a lot of other items, contracted for them. ....

Be the way, I lube my Maxi's the full length or in all the grooves.

Be Safe !!!

FrontierGander · November 13, 2011, 04:29 PM

Use a short starter and give it a solid wack and it will pop into the bore.

It doesnt help that the forward section of the bullet isn't lubed. Thats the biggest diameter of the bullet and its going down the bore dry. Lube it up.

davebell18 · November 13, 2011, 05:12 PM

I do use a starting to get the bullet down about 3" but after that it is very hard. Like i said after about half way down it goes down so smoothly. Does it take that long for the groves of the barrel to etch into the bullet that its easier after that point?

Hawg · November 13, 2011, 05:17 PM

Most short starters are 6 inches. It should go pretty easy after that.

davebell18 · November 13, 2011, 05:37 PM

If my bullets go down smooth after about half way down the barrel would that mean that my bullets are not to large of a diameter? And that there is a problem with the upper half of my barrel as in not cleaned well enough or lead that is stuck in the groves which makes it harder for the bullet to be pushed down the first half of the barrel?

Hawg · November 13, 2011, 06:00 PM

Maybe your lead isn't pure. I don't think there's a problem with your barrel.

FrontierGander · November 13, 2011, 06:25 PM

alright look for a product called JB Bore Paste, Its in a white little tub with blue lettering. Buy a tub of it and lightly oil a patch, wring out excess oil and then with your fingers, smear some JB paste into the patch and then work it up and down the bore a good 50 strokes. Its important to make sure to use a tight patch so it fills the lands in the bore good and tight.

This is a polishing product that will remove any burrs in the bore or even built up lead. A smoother surface means less fouling will be stuck to it down the road.

I'd give it at least 150 strokes, changing the patch out every 50 passes.

arcticap · November 14, 2011, 10:35 PM

There's also different types if rifling. Some rifling may be sharper, deeper and more square at the bottom than others which may help to provide better accuracy with some projectiles but not others.

November 10, 2011, 08:40 PM	#1
davebell18 Member Join Date: April 14, 2010 Posts: 50	.54 cal reloading problem Hey everyone. I have a .54cal Connecticut Valley Arms Inc. Woodsman muzzle loader. I poured some bullets with someone I don't talk to any more who knew a lot about black powder. I know he used soft lead to make these rounds. I shot them out of his rifle many times and the bullets went down nicely even after 6 rounds. My rifle, even after I clean it, the bullet goes down very hard. I sometimes have to hammer it down. Once it gets about half way down the barrel, the bullet goes down smooth. I am wondering if there is something wrong with the gun's upper barrel that it is so tight and maybe a gun smith could fix it. I forgot what the bullets are called but they are not round balls. They look like a bullet with a sleeve on the bottom where grease is used. Thanks for anyone's help. Dave Last edited by davebell18; November 10, 2011 at 08:52 PM.

November 11, 2011, 05:31 AM	#2
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Sometimes when bullets are home made they won't all be the same diameter. However it sounds like your barrel may not be thoroughly clean. It could have some powder or lead residue in it that should be brushed out with a bronze bore brush. There's also several CVA Barrel Blaster products including a foam bore cleaner that can help to remove crusty powder deposits. http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CEAQ8wIwAw http://www.cva.com/cleaning.php Sometimes it's necessary to swab the barrel after every shot with a black powder solvent to remove any crusty powder residue that's left behind. And the rifling grooves can also suffer from becoming embedded with accumulated lead which requires brushing and/or a lead solvent to help remove it. Applying lube to the bullets before loading them can also help to prevent leading. Shooters Choice Lead Remover: http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CEYQ8wIwAA Last edited by arcticap; November 11, 2011 at 05:39 AM.

November 13, 2011, 10:31 AM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Bullet casted from his mold fits his rifle. I presume that you were using his bullet mold and that it may be casting a bullet slightly too large for your rifle. You might want to slug the bore to see what diameter it is. Then measure your bullet to see if it's too tight. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

November 13, 2011, 10:51 AM	#5
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	I routinely go back to the basics !! Whenever I run into a problem like this, I go back to the basics and proceed with the process of elimination. ... 1) I go back to a good known factory RB. 2) I mike my patches to determine if they are out of spec. I usually stick with .015 Lubed 3) On the bench for target; I clean between every shot. Every fifth time for fun. Would add that the last class we taught, all of a sudden, my PRB's got tight. I was using the states patches which were labeled as .015. Went back to my patches and they loosened up again. Took some samples home with me and found that they were oversized, just just enough to be a problem. .... Now, I run my own lead and when I run RB's, I always make certain that it is pure lead. I roll check, weigh and mic. them. I lay these aside for target use. The others that are not so good, I keep for fun shooting or classes. Some are completely rejected. ... A pure lead PRB, is very forgiving and easy to work with. When loading, they yeild quite easily. ... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

November 13, 2011, 01:17 PM	#7
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	be interesting to know what bullet he cast for it __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

November 13, 2011, 09:56 AM	#3
davebell18 Member Join Date: April 14, 2010 Posts: 50	Arcticap, every time I clean my rife, I do use a bronze brush and Hopp's cleaning solution. I guess I guess I don't understand how his rife I could shoot 6 times before running the brush down but mine I cant even do one shot with out having a hard time getting the bullet down. Thanks

November 13, 2011, 12:05 PM	#6
davebell18 Member Join Date: April 14, 2010 Posts: 50	4v50 Gary How to you slug the bore for the dia. of the barrel? Pahoo, I am not to sure what many of your abbreviations mean. I do not use patches. I use the bullets that are not a round ball and look like a bullet with a sleeve at the bottom that are filled with grease. The gentleman that I shot with also has a .54 cal rifle. Yes I used the same mold to cast my bullets as his. Like I said before, his gun shoots many down range before having a problem, as for mine, after cleaning after every shot with a bronze brush and solvent and patch, the bullet is hard to push down the first half of the barrel and then it goes down very nicely. His gun has shot thousands already but mine was brand new. This is a stupid question but is there a break in period for the rifle? I reload pistol, rifle, and shot gun and have never heard of this but maybe is different for black powder. Thanks again everyone. Oh also when I start pushing the bullet down into the rifle I DO see the bullet spinning on the groves of the barrel and the remaining lead pushing up a little towards the top of the bullet.

November 13, 2011, 03:33 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Those are supposed to load hard. The rifling is engraved on them when they're loaded. The problem isn't with your rifle, the problem was with his if they loaded easy.

November 13, 2011, 03:40 PM	#10
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Thanks for the pictures I missed that and even after reading your post again, I was still confused as you what you were casting and loading. I now see that you are shooting what is called a lubed "Conical". Have never seen this particualy one but looks much like the Maxi-Balls I run. For a minute, I thought you were using Power-Belts and then I thought you were taling about the R.E.A.L. conicals. .... Some of these types will load harder than others. My Maxi's are loading just fine but suspect the day will come when the mold will open up too much and they too will start to really drag. The REAL's that I ran and load, got very hard to load and I measured my bore and prior to lubing, I rolled them on a board with a flat file on top, mic'd them back to spec. and they worked fine. Finally gave up on the REAL's and stuck to my Maxi Balls and Hunters. .... Be the way, I lube my Maxi's the full length or in all the grooves. .... Sorry to be confusing on the abbreviations and PRB= (Patched Round Balls). .. Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

November 13, 2011, 03:43 PM	#11
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	The bullet your using is a Lyman No. 540619 425 grain weight.

November 13, 2011, 03:45 PM	#12
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	They're maxi balls altho shorter than the ones I used to use. Mine were very difficult to get started but once past short starter depth they went on down easy.

November 13, 2011, 04:29 PM	#14
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	Use a short starter and give it a solid wack and it will pop into the bore. It doesnt help that the forward section of the bullet isn't lubed. Thats the biggest diameter of the bullet and its going down the bore dry. Lube it up. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

November 13, 2011, 05:12 PM	#15
davebell18 Member Join Date: April 14, 2010 Posts: 50	I do use a starting to get the bullet down about 3" but after that it is very hard. Like i said after about half way down it goes down so smoothly. Does it take that long for the groves of the barrel to etch into the bullet that its easier after that point?

November 13, 2011, 05:17 PM	#16
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Most short starters are 6 inches. It should go pretty easy after that.

November 13, 2011, 05:37 PM	#17
davebell18 Member Join Date: April 14, 2010 Posts: 50	If my bullets go down smooth after about half way down the barrel would that mean that my bullets are not to large of a diameter? And that there is a problem with the upper half of my barrel as in not cleaned well enough or lead that is stuck in the groves which makes it harder for the bullet to be pushed down the first half of the barrel?

November 13, 2011, 06:00 PM	#18
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Maybe your lead isn't pure. I don't think there's a problem with your barrel.

November 13, 2011, 06:25 PM	#19
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	alright look for a product called JB Bore Paste, Its in a white little tub with blue lettering. Buy a tub of it and lightly oil a patch, wring out excess oil and then with your fingers, smear some JB paste into the patch and then work it up and down the bore a good 50 strokes. Its important to make sure to use a tight patch so it fills the lands in the bore good and tight. This is a polishing product that will remove any burrs in the bore or even built up lead. A smoother surface means less fouling will be stuck to it down the road. I'd give it at least 150 strokes, changing the patch out every 50 passes. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

November 14, 2011, 10:35 PM	#20
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	There's also different types if rifling. Some rifling may be sharper, deeper and more square at the bottom than others which may help to provide better accuracy with some projectiles but not others.