Rifle Reloading Conundrum

SwampYankee · June 4, 2009, 07:26 PM

I've been reloading .303's for my Enfields for the past few months and have noticed that lately, when the cartridges eject, they are covered in soot. Obviously, gas is backing up into the chamber. Has anyone had this experience or can explain how it is happening? It seems to be doing a job on accuracy and I'm a little concerned about all the hot gas heading in my direction.

I am neck sizing with a RCBS full-sizing die, but I only partially size. These cartridges have been fired in the rifle before so I'm not sure why this is happening. This does no happen with new rounds.

**Unclenick** · June 4, 2009, 07:36 PM

Often this happens with an underpowered load. The pressure in the chamber isn't adequate to keep the sides of the case out against the chamber walls to seal the gas out. Is this a reduced load of some kind?

SwampYankee · June 4, 2009, 08:13 PM

BINGO!

But it gets better than just a weak load. The can of powder I started using a couple weeks ago was made in 1997. The store I bought it from gave it to me at the price of $16 because it was covered in an inch of dust, so I thought it was a great deal. Sadly, the stuff stinks like vinegar and I thought it might be going bad. Apparently it has gone bad and that would explain the weak loads.

It still makes one hell of a bang but life is too short to waste my bullets on garbage and poor accuracy. I guess I now have two pounds of fertilizer....

Teuthis · June 4, 2009, 11:35 PM

If powder stinks, throw it out for sure. Powder that old should be suspect. I am surprised that a dealer sold it to you.

Sam06 · June 5, 2009, 01:29 AM

I have shot powder that is 30 years old but it was stored correctly. If the powder you have smells strange or looks bad get rid of it asap. Put it in the yard its good fertilizer.

Dannyl · June 5, 2009, 01:49 AM

Hi,
back in the days when I used to shoot competitions (before the wife and kid came along) I stocked up on components .
then for ten years, I did only done casual shooting, using much saller quantities of ammo and therefore still have stock of powder and primers that have sat in storage for up top 12 years.

For the past 6 months I am shooting much more regularly, and I am still using these components.

IMO this proves that if stored properly, modern powders and primers will keep well for at least 12 years.

I therefore suggest that you take the powder back to the shop, if they are decent, they will refund you or replace the powder with another tin.

Regards,

Danny

**Unclenick** · June 5, 2009, 05:54 AM

Surplus ammo from the 50's still works, so age alone is not an issue. Alliant still has a sample from the original lot of Unique which must be close to a century old at this point. Periodically test a sample. It is still good.

I think the most common problem is excess heat. If the can sat in someone's trunk through a summer, that might be an issue. But whatever caused the acrid smell, that is one of the classic signs of powder breaking down, so don't keep using it. I have no clue what the likelihood of detonations or other serious problems might be with such a powder?

Sevens · June 5, 2009, 08:02 AM

I'm not the kind that likes to do a "ME TOO" post, but I think it's important to pass the word for anyone else who is reading.

Age by itself is NOT what kills a powder.

I have a few powders that are definitely older than 1997. My oldest powder is likely from the mid to early 80s and it's absolutely fine.

If you judge a powder strictly by it's age (if you even know the age) then you will be looking past a LOT of good powder.

SwampYankee · June 5, 2009, 01:32 PM

When I first started reloading, my dad gave a pound of W230 (NOT W231). It still smelled fine and I am sure it would have been fine, despite the fact that it was from the 60's. But I had no loading data for it so I fertilized the grass with it.

Although the stuff that just went bad on me was from 1997, the little store I got it from is a bit sketchy. It would not surprise me if the stuff had been stored poorly, they had a lot of old components that probably would not have sold at all if it had not been for the current crunch. They gouge you on everything but people (like me) are willing to pay for it.

I didn't have the receipt and they didn't have any 2460 to replace it with anyway so I picked up some H4895 for $32 a pound today. I hate to pay that much, but I'm down to 1 pound of good 2460 and 1/2 a pound of Varget. I made sure to smell it before I left the store!

azar92 · June 5, 2009, 02:05 PM

Hmmm, this thread has me wondering. Are there some powders that are just normally strong smelling? I have never noticed a strong "stinky" smell on powder until I used Ramshot Magnum for the first time about a year (?) ago. It has a very strong smell, not one that I'd necessarily classify as rancid or spoiled, but pungent.

Is that just normal for Ramshot Magnum or some other powders? The reloading shop I purchased it from is top notch and I doubt it was mis-stored by them. I really don't think it had much time to sit on the shelves either. After it was purchased It's been stored in the same stable conditions as all my other powder (which are all a year or so older than the Ramshot) and none of them have a particularly strong smell.

Does anyone else use Ramshot Magnum and find that it's a bit strong smelling? Or could I have "bad" powder?

SwampYankee · June 5, 2009, 02:52 PM

When I picked up the H4895 today I smelled it. The smell was very strong when I first opened the can but as soon as the lid was off, the smell dissipated. It still had a slight scent, but more like mild photo chemicals. When the 2460 went bad, it just kept on stinking. It was so strong that it made you wince and it did not get any better with time. My 5 year old is convinced it smelled like apples but it was more vinegar than anything else. I have never used Ramshot but how does it shoot? My bad 2460 was shooting like garbage and sooting the cases, that's what tipped me off to something being wrong.

azar92 · June 5, 2009, 03:31 PM

Well, I'm not sure I could say how well it shoots. I haven't finished testing any loads for it, but have mainly used it for my fouler shots. It was only $15.95 a pound, so if it didn't shoot well it would still work for plinking / fouling.

I haven't noticed any excessive sooting or other performance issues with it though.

June 4, 2009, 07:26 PM	#1
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	Rifle Reloading Conundrum I've been reloading .303's for my Enfields for the past few months and have noticed that lately, when the cartridges eject, they are covered in soot. Obviously, gas is backing up into the chamber. Has anyone had this experience or can explain how it is happening? It seems to be doing a job on accuracy and I'm a little concerned about all the hot gas heading in my direction. I am neck sizing with a RCBS full-sizing die, but I only partially size. These cartridges have been fired in the rifle before so I'm not sure why this is happening. This does no happen with new rounds.

June 4, 2009, 07:36 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Often this happens with an underpowered load. The pressure in the chamber isn't adequate to keep the sides of the case out against the chamber walls to seal the gas out. Is this a reduced load of some kind? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 4, 2009, 08:13 PM	#3
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	BINGO! But it gets better than just a weak load. The can of powder I started using a couple weeks ago was made in 1997. The store I bought it from gave it to me at the price of $16 because it was covered in an inch of dust, so I thought it was a great deal. Sadly, the stuff stinks like vinegar and I thought it might be going bad. Apparently it has gone bad and that would explain the weak loads. It still makes one hell of a bang but life is too short to waste my bullets on garbage and poor accuracy. I guess I now have two pounds of fertilizer.... Last edited by SwampYankee; June 4, 2009 at 09:30 PM.

June 4, 2009, 11:35 PM	#4
Teuthis Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 537	If powder stinks, throw it out for sure. Powder that old should be suspect. I am surprised that a dealer sold it to you. __________________ Oderint dum Metuant

June 5, 2009, 01:29 AM	#5
Sam06 Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Fayettenam Posts: 1,086	I have shot powder that is 30 years old but it was stored correctly. If the powder you have smells strange or looks bad get rid of it asap. Put it in the yard its good fertilizer. __________________ The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

June 5, 2009, 01:49 AM	#6
Dannyl Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Cape Town - South Africa Posts: 627	get your money back Hi, back in the days when I used to shoot competitions (before the wife and kid came along) I stocked up on components . then for ten years, I did only done casual shooting, using much saller quantities of ammo and therefore still have stock of powder and primers that have sat in storage for up top 12 years. For the past 6 months I am shooting much more regularly, and I am still using these components. IMO this proves that if stored properly, modern powders and primers will keep well for at least 12 years. I therefore suggest that you take the powder back to the shop, if they are decent, they will refund you or replace the powder with another tin. Regards, Danny

June 5, 2009, 05:54 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Surplus ammo from the 50's still works, so age alone is not an issue. Alliant still has a sample from the original lot of Unique which must be close to a century old at this point. Periodically test a sample. It is still good. I think the most common problem is excess heat. If the can sat in someone's trunk through a summer, that might be an issue. But whatever caused the acrid smell, that is one of the classic signs of powder breaking down, so don't keep using it. I have no clue what the likelihood of detonations or other serious problems might be with such a powder? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 5, 2009, 08:02 AM	#8
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I'm not the kind that likes to do a "ME TOO" post, but I think it's important to pass the word for anyone else who is reading. Age by itself is NOT what kills a powder. I have a few powders that are definitely older than 1997. My oldest powder is likely from the mid to early 80s and it's absolutely fine. If you judge a powder strictly by it's age (if you even know the age) then you will be looking past a LOT of good powder. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

June 5, 2009, 01:32 PM	#9
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	When I first started reloading, my dad gave a pound of W230 (NOT W231). It still smelled fine and I am sure it would have been fine, despite the fact that it was from the 60's. But I had no loading data for it so I fertilized the grass with it. Although the stuff that just went bad on me was from 1997, the little store I got it from is a bit sketchy. It would not surprise me if the stuff had been stored poorly, they had a lot of old components that probably would not have sold at all if it had not been for the current crunch. They gouge you on everything but people (like me) are willing to pay for it. I didn't have the receipt and they didn't have any 2460 to replace it with anyway so I picked up some H4895 for $32 a pound today. I hate to pay that much, but I'm down to 1 pound of good 2460 and 1/2 a pound of Varget. I made sure to smell it before I left the store!

June 5, 2009, 02:05 PM	#10
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	Hmmm, this thread has me wondering. Are there some powders that are just normally strong smelling? I have never noticed a strong "stinky" smell on powder until I used Ramshot Magnum for the first time about a year (?) ago. It has a very strong smell, not one that I'd necessarily classify as rancid or spoiled, but pungent. Is that just normal for Ramshot Magnum or some other powders? The reloading shop I purchased it from is top notch and I doubt it was mis-stored by them. I really don't think it had much time to sit on the shelves either. After it was purchased It's been stored in the same stable conditions as all my other powder (which are all a year or so older than the Ramshot) and none of them have a particularly strong smell. Does anyone else use Ramshot Magnum and find that it's a bit strong smelling? Or could I have "bad" powder?

June 5, 2009, 02:52 PM	#11
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	When I picked up the H4895 today I smelled it. The smell was very strong when I first opened the can but as soon as the lid was off, the smell dissipated. It still had a slight scent, but more like mild photo chemicals. When the 2460 went bad, it just kept on stinking. It was so strong that it made you wince and it did not get any better with time. My 5 year old is convinced it smelled like apples but it was more vinegar than anything else. I have never used Ramshot but how does it shoot? My bad 2460 was shooting like garbage and sooting the cases, that's what tipped me off to something being wrong.

June 5, 2009, 03:31 PM	#12
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	Well, I'm not sure I could say how well it shoots. I haven't finished testing any loads for it, but have mainly used it for my fouler shots. It was only $15.95 a pound, so if it didn't shoot well it would still work for plinking / fouling. I haven't noticed any excessive sooting or other performance issues with it though.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search