Casing Blew Apart (Help Please) Pictures

joedjr · May 14, 2009, 02:31 PM

I reloaded some 40 S & W.. I am almost certain I didn't double charge the casing due to the casing being 2/3 full with a normal charge. Also I did not seat the bullet deeper than instructed. Can anyone give a good reason why the rim blew off this casing. I was shooting a Beretta 96FS which will need to go back to beretta because of the damage to the gun.

Powder is Unique 6.5grs, bullet is uni-cor 180 gr TMJ seated 1.124 with federal small pistol primer

I am using a single stage RCBS Rock Chuckar and RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure

tom234 · May 14, 2009, 02:46 PM

Same thing happened to me but with a Federal factory round. The cases were made in the mid 90's and were defective; apparently the cases weren't designed properly. I luckily didn't have any damage.

Kendo · May 14, 2009, 02:49 PM

I'm no pro but there will be some along here shortly. I dont think 6.5 grains will fill a .40 cal case 2/3rd of the way full. Thats just my sense of the matter. But like I say one of the pro's will be along shortly.Glad you're not hurt.

tiberius10721 · May 14, 2009, 03:43 PM

theres no way 6.5 grains would fill 2/3 of a 40 cal case!

csmsss · May 14, 2009, 03:48 PM

Case head separation? Check. Light charge of superfast powder? Check. Double charge? You betcha.

joedjr · May 14, 2009, 03:53 PM

I'm just estimating 2/3 capacity..sorry for the confusion.

tiberius10721 · May 14, 2009, 03:55 PM

hey joe you should have started out at no more than 5.8 grains of unique with a minimum oal of1.125 that would have kept your gun from blowing up!6.5 grains is the max!If u dont mind me asking what did u use for a reloading manual!I have an old lee manual and it says starting load 5.8 grains.

joedjr · May 14, 2009, 03:57 PM

Speer # 14 and it has start charge 6.0 and max 6.7..

FlyFish · May 14, 2009, 04:09 PM

I recognize the 2/3 full part isn't the crux of the issue here, but I had the technology (.40 cases, Unique powder, digital scale and digital camera), so I figured I'd go down to the reloading bench and get some data. Here's what 6.5 gr of Unique looks like in a .40 S&W case. I'd say about 2/3 full, maybe even a bit more, is about right.

Don P · May 14, 2009, 04:20 PM

First statement I'll make is Unique powder DOES NOT METER ACCURATELY AT ALL

. Did you weigh the load in question

? I have found that every load using Unique MUST BE WEIGHED!!!!!

. This is the main reason I have switched powder to Hodgdon's Titegroup and also using less powder

. If you or anyone else is questioning my statement about Unique go to Lee's web site and there it is in print. I would venture to say that if the statement is/was untrue Alliant would be all over Lee like a cheap suit.

tiberius10721 · May 14, 2009, 04:21 PM

you have to realize that your typical 40 cal load has a pressure of 33000 psi which doesnt give you much room to play around with when it comes to pressure!Thats why its considered to be a touchy round to reload compared to reloading 45 acp where your typical pressure is 15000 psi!so in other words you dont really have no room for error when it comes to reloading 40 cal.Ive only been reloading pistol ammo for about 5yrs so im not as experienced as a lot of these guys around here but if it had been me reloading this round I would have started with the minimum start load of 5.8 grains and I would have charged a bunch of cases and then wieghed the powder charge on each and every one of them to see how consistant my powder charges were.Once I made sure my powder charges were 5.8 grains then I would have started seating and crimping the bullets and checking the powder charge on every fifth or tenth round.

tiberius10721 · May 14, 2009, 04:27 PM

nice info Don ill make sure never to buy a bottle of unique!bullseye is my main pistol powder.I just bought some tight group cause I couldnt find anymore bullseye.I havent had a chance yet to use the tightgroup I purchased.with bullseye my loads are always within a tenth of a grain!

azredhawk44 · May 14, 2009, 04:33 PM

You have the perfect storm of:

1. Inconsistent powder (I'm also an ex-Unique shooter)
2. Bullet with little room for error (Dillon recommends against 180's in .40) and overpressures very easily
3. Probably had some bullet setback during feed with slightly more powder than is acceptable.

I find the data at Alliant's site to be deplorable, BTW.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...id=42&bdid=118

A COAL only to the hundredths position? No thousandths? I guess measuring powder only to the nearest grain is good enough, too.

This is an excellent learning opportunity for you to switch to either Accurate or Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR powders and their provided load data.

Take a look here:

http://data.hodgdon.com

See how much more information you get from them?

In the future, I'd recommend:
1. Stay at 165gr or lower for .40 loads
2. Stay away from Unique and switch to a ball powder for autopistol (AA#2, #5 or #7 work for .40)
3. Re-evaluate your crimp to avoid bullet setback during feeding and the resulting pressure spike as a result

Don P · May 14, 2009, 04:35 PM

Read this
Not weighing EVERY CHARGE of UNIQUE will result in case's rupturing as the photos show. This straight off Lee's site

Perfect Powder Measure Consistency

Bumping against the stops when dumping and filling the metering chamber usually causes inconsistent loads with the Perfect Powder Measure. Be gentle at both ends of the stop when charging powder.

Also failure to condition the measure by running a pound of powder through the unit will cause inconsistent charges. You can speed the conditioning by dusting the metering surfaces with powdered graphite.

Lastly some powders do not meter well, Unique powder is one example that meters with "casual uniformity".

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tiberius10721 · May 14, 2009, 04:40 PM

That data is deplorable!yikes I wonder how many new reloaders have blown up their guns with that data!My lee manual says never exceed 6.5!my lee manual has starting load at 5.8 grains.I noticed that alliant site didnt even have information for a starting load!

zxcvbob · May 14, 2009, 04:48 PM

Joe said he was using a Uniflow powder measure, not a Lee. I have no problems measuring Unique in my old C&H powder measure. I don't trust it in my progressive press tho' because I can't easily inspect every round, and the Hornady powder measure is good, but not as consistent as the C&H so I use ball powders (and tiny flakes like Bullseye and 2400) with it.

No-one has mentioned yet that the brass may have been worn out.

SwampYankee · May 14, 2009, 04:53 PM

I only load Unique in .38 special and .357 mag and my 1970's era Uniflow hates the stuff. It literally jams up when charging. The milder the load, the worse the jam. Because I am shooting overbuilt Ruger revolvers, it's quick and I don't worry about the inconsistency (cheap plinking is what I am after). I load a little bit of .40 S&W and while I have never had any blow up with Unique, I will be a heck of a lot more careful in the future.

D. Manley · May 14, 2009, 05:06 PM

Check any remaining loaded rounds by giving them the "push test" to see if they can be moved into the case furthur. With a hot load (or, even not) all it takes is a little bullet setback to rocket the pressures.

dipper · May 14, 2009, 05:14 PM

It's not the powders fault, I have been using unique for at least 15 years with no trouble and it gives good accuracy in my .357 Magnums. I also weigh every load and have found it doesn't slow me up that much.

Bullet choice, powder measure and a near max load did the damage.

Joe, did you read in your manual about how to approach max loads??

jepp2 · May 14, 2009, 05:14 PM

Have you ever checked you digital scale with a set of check weights?

impalacustom · May 14, 2009, 05:21 PM

Take a look at the primer, that baby is flat as a pancake and the top pic looks like a crater, not sure, a little blurry. Possible too much pressure.

Have you ever tried to anneal these cases? I know dumb question but I've seen people do it to pistol brass.

One other option is possible but doubtful is firing out of battery?

joedjr · May 14, 2009, 05:21 PM

Quote (Joe, did you read in your manual about how to approach max loads??)Quote

I didn't think I was reaching max load on the powder. The Speer #14 manual says 6.0 to 6.7 and I loaded 6.5. I was not getting consistent measures so most were below 6.5 but above 6.3.. I listed on the post where I was on the high end which was the 6.5 I thought i was good to go..

tiberius10721 · May 14, 2009, 05:22 PM

after seeing those pictures I cant believe I used to use a lee dipper and a credit card to charge my 380 acp cases in the past back when I didnt have the correct powder disk!never had any problems though I must have been lucky!

joedjr · May 14, 2009, 05:22 PM

Quote (Have you ever checked you digital scale with a set of check weights?) Quote

I don't have a digital I use the RCBS slide scale that came with the Rock Chuckar Press

tiberius10721 · May 14, 2009, 05:31 PM

i still think 5.8 grains would have been a good start load.

May 14, 2009, 04:20 PM	#10
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	First statement I'll make is Unique powder DOES NOT METER ACCURATELY AT ALL. Did you weigh the load in question? I have found that every load using Unique MUST BE WEIGHED!!!!!. This is the main reason I have switched powder to Hodgdon's Titegroup and also using less powder. If you or anyone else is questioning my statement about Unique go to Lee's web site and there it is in print. I would venture to say that if the statement is/was untrue Alliant would be all over Lee like a cheap suit. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

May 14, 2009, 04:48 PM	#16
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Joe said he was using a Uniflow powder measure, not a Lee. I have no problems measuring Unique in my old C&H powder measure. I don't trust it in my progressive press tho' because I can't easily inspect every round, and the Hornady powder measure is good, but not as consistent as the C&H so I use ball powders (and tiny flakes like Bullseye and 2400) with it. No-one has mentioned yet that the brass may have been worn out. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

May 14, 2009, 05:06 PM	#18
D. Manley Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2008 Posts: 299	Check any remaining loaded rounds by giving them the "push test" to see if they can be moved into the case furthur. With a hot load (or, even not) all it takes is a little bullet setback to rocket the pressures. __________________ *"Old School" ain't all bad...*

May 14, 2009, 05:14 PM	#19
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	It's not the powders fault, I have been using unique for at least 15 years with no trouble and it gives good accuracy in my .357 Magnums. I also weigh every load and have found it doesn't slow me up that much. Bullet choice, powder measure and a near max load did the damage. Joe, did you read in your manual about how to approach max loads?? __________________ --------------------------------------------------------- "It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees" EMILIANO ZAPATA SALAZAR

May 14, 2009, 02:31 PM	#1
joedjr Junior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Posts: 9	Casing Blew Apart (Help Please) Pictures I reloaded some 40 S & W.. I am almost certain I didn't double charge the casing due to the casing being 2/3 full with a normal charge. Also I did not seat the bullet deeper than instructed. Can anyone give a good reason why the rim blew off this casing. I was shooting a Beretta 96FS which will need to go back to beretta because of the damage to the gun. Powder is Unique 6.5grs, bullet is uni-cor 180 gr TMJ seated 1.124 with federal small pistol primer I am using a single stage RCBS Rock Chuckar and RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure

May 14, 2009, 02:46 PM	#2
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	Same thing happened to me but with a Federal factory round. The cases were made in the mid 90's and were defective; apparently the cases weren't designed properly. I luckily didn't have any damage. Last edited by tom234; May 14, 2009 at 02:54 PM.

May 14, 2009, 02:49 PM	#3
Kendo Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 103	I'm no pro but there will be some along here shortly. I dont think 6.5 grains will fill a .40 cal case 2/3rd of the way full. Thats just my sense of the matter. But like I say one of the pro's will be along shortly.Glad you're not hurt.

May 14, 2009, 03:43 PM	#4
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	theres no way 6.5 grains would fill 2/3 of a 40 cal case!

May 14, 2009, 03:48 PM	#5
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	Case head separation? Check. Light charge of superfast powder? Check. Double charge? You betcha.

May 14, 2009, 03:53 PM	#6
joedjr Junior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Posts: 9	I'm just estimating 2/3 capacity..sorry for the confusion.

May 14, 2009, 03:55 PM	#7
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	hey joe you should have started out at no more than 5.8 grains of unique with a minimum oal of1.125 that would have kept your gun from blowing up!6.5 grains is the max!If u dont mind me asking what did u use for a reloading manual!I have an old lee manual and it says starting load 5.8 grains.

May 14, 2009, 03:57 PM	#8
joedjr Junior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Posts: 9	Speer # 14 and it has start charge 6.0 and max 6.7..

May 14, 2009, 04:09 PM	#9
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,723	I recognize the 2/3 full part isn't the crux of the issue here, but I had the technology (.40 cases, Unique powder, digital scale and digital camera), so I figured I'd go down to the reloading bench and get some data. Here's what 6.5 gr of Unique looks like in a .40 S&W case. I'd say about 2/3 full, maybe even a bit more, is about right.

May 14, 2009, 04:21 PM	#11
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	you have to realize that your typical 40 cal load has a pressure of 33000 psi which doesnt give you much room to play around with when it comes to pressure!Thats why its considered to be a touchy round to reload compared to reloading 45 acp where your typical pressure is 15000 psi!so in other words you dont really have no room for error when it comes to reloading 40 cal.Ive only been reloading pistol ammo for about 5yrs so im not as experienced as a lot of these guys around here but if it had been me reloading this round I would have started with the minimum start load of 5.8 grains and I would have charged a bunch of cases and then wieghed the powder charge on each and every one of them to see how consistant my powder charges were.Once I made sure my powder charges were 5.8 grains then I would have started seating and crimping the bullets and checking the powder charge on every fifth or tenth round.

May 14, 2009, 04:27 PM	#12
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	nice info Don ill make sure never to buy a bottle of unique!bullseye is my main pistol powder.I just bought some tight group cause I couldnt find anymore bullseye.I havent had a chance yet to use the tightgroup I purchased.with bullseye my loads are always within a tenth of a grain!

May 14, 2009, 04:33 PM	#13
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	You have the perfect storm of: 1. Inconsistent powder (I'm also an ex-Unique shooter) 2. Bullet with little room for error (Dillon recommends against 180's in .40) and overpressures very easily 3. Probably had some bullet setback during feed with slightly more powder than is acceptable. I find the data at Alliant's site to be deplorable, BTW. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...id=42&bdid=118 A COAL only to the hundredths position? No thousandths? I guess measuring powder only to the nearest grain is good enough, too. This is an excellent learning opportunity for you to switch to either Accurate or Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR powders and their provided load data. Take a look here: http://data.hodgdon.com See how much more information you get from them? In the future, I'd recommend: 1. Stay at 165gr or lower for .40 loads 2. Stay away from Unique and switch to a ball powder for autopistol (AA#2, #5 or #7 work for .40) 3. Re-evaluate your crimp to avoid bullet setback during feeding and the resulting pressure spike as a result

May 14, 2009, 04:35 PM	#14
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Read this Not weighing EVERY CHARGE of UNIQUE will result in case's rupturing as the photos show. This straight off Lee's site Perfect Powder Measure Consistency Bumping against the stops when dumping and filling the metering chamber usually causes inconsistent loads with the Perfect Powder Measure. Be gentle at both ends of the stop when charging powder. Also failure to condition the measure by running a pound of powder through the unit will cause inconsistent charges. You can speed the conditioning by dusting the metering surfaces with powdered graphite. Lastly some powders do not meter well, Unique powder is one example that meters with "casual uniformity". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Click here to download the Lee Precision Tech Assistant in WinHelp4 format. Netscape users hold down the SHIFT key while you click on the file name above. IE users click the right mouse button on the file name, then select 'save target as'. Please review the Lee Tech Assistant thoroughly before sending us an inquiry. If you still can't find the answer to your question, email us at [email protected]. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

May 14, 2009, 04:40 PM	#15
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	That data is deplorable!yikes I wonder how many new reloaders have blown up their guns with that data!My lee manual says never exceed 6.5!my lee manual has starting load at 5.8 grains.I noticed that alliant site didnt even have information for a starting load!

May 14, 2009, 04:53 PM	#17
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	I only load Unique in .38 special and .357 mag and my 1970's era Uniflow hates the stuff. It literally jams up when charging. The milder the load, the worse the jam. Because I am shooting overbuilt Ruger revolvers, it's quick and I don't worry about the inconsistency (cheap plinking is what I am after). I load a little bit of .40 S&W and while I have never had any blow up with Unique, I will be a heck of a lot more careful in the future.

May 14, 2009, 05:14 PM	#20
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	Have you ever checked you digital scale with a set of check weights?

May 14, 2009, 05:21 PM	#21
impalacustom Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 492	Take a look at the primer, that baby is flat as a pancake and the top pic looks like a crater, not sure, a little blurry. Possible too much pressure. Have you ever tried to anneal these cases? I know dumb question but I've seen people do it to pistol brass. One other option is possible but doubtful is firing out of battery?

May 14, 2009, 05:22 PM	#23
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	after seeing those pictures I cant believe I used to use a lee dipper and a credit card to charge my 380 acp cases in the past back when I didnt have the correct powder disk!never had any problems though I must have been lucky!

May 14, 2009, 05:31 PM	#25
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	i still think 5.8 grains would have been a good start load.