H&K P7M13 9mm Review (Oh yeah, it's tactical stapler time!)

Mrgunsngear · August 24, 2013, 05:08 PM

The H&K P7M13 (and all P7 variants) is a very interesting gun. I've had mine for a while and every time it makes an appearance at the range it always seems to draw a crowd. Here's a summary of my impressions of the gun:

Pros:
-Extremely reliable. This gun has never had a single malfunction in my hands
-Excellent trigger
-I'm a fan of the mag ambi mag release
-Very sleek lines and it's pretty slim overall for a 13+1 gun
-I have large hands and like how the gun feels in the hand but those with smaller hands may be better off going with the P7M8
-Very low bore axis combined with the piston system (more on this in the video below) make for a very, very light recoil impulse.
-Easy and fast reloads can be accomplished with the use of the squeeze cocker
-No magazine safety
-Excellent accuracy from the fixed, cold hammer forged barrel
-Fluted chamber for increased reliability under adverse conditions
-Top of the slide is milled to reduce glare

Cons:
-Cost. They're expensive and no longer in production. Mags aren't cheap either. The prices on gunbroker seem to be all over the place but they pretty much start at $1300 and go up a good bit for a good condition or rare model
-It gets hot after a few magazines of rapid shooting
-Cleaning the gas system is somewhat annoying but it's not a deal breaker in my opinion

All in all it's an excellent firearm as you'd expect from H&K. In the review below I do some shooting, explain/demonstrate the unique features of the gun, and go over the pros/cons of it overall:

Heckler & Koch P7M13 HD Video Review Link

James K · August 24, 2013, 05:46 PM

They are interesting guns but take some getting used to. My main complaint is that the gun must be gripped hard at all times. Normally, once the gun is cocked, it can be fired with a relatively light trigger pull, sort of like the change from DA to SA in a conventional DA/SA auto pistol. But if, partway through a magazine, the shooter relaxes his hand, the gun then reverts back to the squeeze cocker mode and has to be recocked. It is as if that DA/SA pistol suddenly went from SA firing to DA in the middle of a string. That, to me, is disconcerting and IMHO a major point against the gun.

The fluted chamber, needed to keep the extractor from tearing the rim off the case; the hot piston area; and the need to clean the gas system are, again IMHO, not important problems.

That pistol, IIRC, came out of a request for proposal from one of the German states for a 9mm pistol with a fixed barrel (i.e., not a locked breech). The Steyr GP was another gun from that competition.

Jim

Kevin_d77 · August 24, 2013, 05:59 PM

And people complain about the XD grip safety.....

Herr Walther · August 24, 2013, 06:58 PM

The request came from Bayern after the München killing of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics.

BigD_in_FL · August 24, 2013, 07:56 PM

Quote:

And people complain about the XD grip safety.....

So you must not have one I take??

I have the regular P7 PSP. Yes it gets warm if fired a lot rapidly, but except for some competition, who really does that?

Accurate? SCARY accurate and designed to be able to fire without an extractor. Once squeezed, it takes very little pressure to keep the squeeze cocker ready to fire

My version is readily available for about 800, but mags are harder to find, so the M8 version would be better.

Best 9mm I own, and one of the most accurate (along with the SIG P210)

CUBAN REDNECK · August 24, 2013, 08:06 PM

Great shooter and extremely accurate. I had the pleasure of shooting one about two years ago, a friend loaned me his pistol. Truly designed ahead of its time and over engineered by the Germans.

Pilot · August 25, 2013, 07:58 AM

I have a P7M8, and a surplus BMI P7. Both, are very accurate, reliable, and concealable. The P7 is in my carry rotation. I find the pistol can be held with a relaxed grip, while still keeping the gun cocked, and ready to fire. The squeeze cocker is designed that once it is cocked, less pressure can be used to keep it cocked. In my experience, it does not require more pressure than other guns to hold, and fire.

tulsamal · August 25, 2013, 08:49 AM

I have two as well. P7M8 and PSP style. Big fan of the design. Since the vast majority of civilians are going to carry a gun for many years and never actually "have to use it...." a CCW gun needs to be as safe as possible. In the hand and in the holster. And during a re-holster. The P7 is that gun.

BUT... I almost never carry mine. I have but they are mostly range guns now. And it's not because they get hot after 50 rounds. It's because they are all steel and just heavier than I'm willing to carry around every day. I've been carrying a gun with a CCW for something like 15 years now and I've found that size isn't as important as weight. I prefer a bare gun weight of 18-24 ounces. The P7 is more like 28 ounces. A quarter of a pound over the limit doesn't sound like much but it gets worse.

I'm not a cop or even military any more. I'm not going to walk around with a full SWAT team load on my belt. Especially if I'm just going into Vinita for an hour or two during the day. Rural towns of 7000 are quiet places during the day. In those situations, I'm willing to drop down to just a gun and no spare mag IF I feel like the mag + chamber amount is sufficient. The P7 at 8+1 is right on the edge. When I have carried it, I usually ended up with a spare mag. But a lighter gun with higher capacity like a Glock 19 or HK P2000 (12+1 in .357 SIG) I feel good about carrying without the extra weight of another mag.

Again, I do really like the design. And I agree that it was "ahead of its time." But that was the 80's. HK didn't continue to improve it. If they took the P7 design and made a modern version with lightweight materials.... I just might carry that.

Gregg

Pilot · August 25, 2013, 09:01 AM

Most of the weight of a P7 is in its slide. I believe it needs the mass to function properly due to the blowback, gas retarded design. I don't see a lighter weight P7 ever being produced, but I don't have a crystal ball either. With a proper holster, and belt, I don't feel the weight of the P7, and nine rounds works for me. YMMV.

MLeake · August 25, 2013, 01:12 PM

The weight difference is not in the slide, it is in the steel frame.

Put my P7 next to my CZ P01, and the P7 slide is smaller than the P01 slide.

The gas system does not add mass, that I can tell, and if it does that mass would be in the cylinder housing in the frame.

Edit: For that matter, most of the weight is in the grip portion of the frame, which is why the P7 can challenge holster makers. Holsters have to be designed to resist the proportionally heavy grip's tendency to torque away from the body. This is true of my P7 PSP pistols, and I assume it would be more pronounced with M13 variants.

hodaka · August 25, 2013, 01:26 PM

I have had the P7M8 for about 10 years now. As previously stated, it is very accurate. I have a good holster and I carried it concealed for quite a while. It is heavy but a good holster and belt works wonders. It does heat up after a few magazines. I once tried it at a local IDPA competition. Although I had never noticed it when plinking, I did find that I was accidently releasing the grip on some courses of fire. I guess I tend to shoot with a loose grip and you can't do that with a P7. My wife likes it and can shoot it well. I'll keep this one but I prefer a 1911 for carry.

Nice video and review, BTW.

FairWarning · August 25, 2013, 03:03 PM

I love the P7 because the handling is without peer for me. It is also a very effective carry gun and has a true "anti-stress" safety via the grip, which I consider ideal and comforting to have working in my favor.

Venom1956 · August 25, 2013, 03:39 PM

I've wanted one just about forever...

Microgunner · August 25, 2013, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James K

They are interesting guns but take some getting used to. My main complaint is that the gun must be gripped hard at all times.

Then the one you shot was broken. My P7 requires only one pound of gripping force to keep it cocked. I can easily keep it cocked by pinching the cocker with one finger on the cocker and one finger on the back strap.
Mine is virtually effortless to keep cocked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James K

The fluted chamber, needed to keep the extractor from tearing the rim off the case; the hot piston area; and the need to clean the gas system are, again IMHO, not important problems.

The nice thing about the fluted chamber, you can completely remove the extractor and the P7 will continue to function just fine. The flutes trap some gas and float the empty brass in the chamber.

kcub · August 25, 2013, 07:04 PM

Quote:

I've wanted one just about forever...

...as have I.

and being as how I am such a bitch for die Deutsche pistolen I now have one on the way

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-pistol...pic-heavy.html

jaughtman · August 25, 2013, 08:17 PM

Yes, it is a little heavy for CC....that is why it is my go-to bedside and main HD gun....pick it up in the middle of the night and with w slight squeeze it is ready to go. Pretty much fool-proof.

J

And scary accurate.....

PSP · August 25, 2013, 08:18 PM

Quote:

I don't see a lighter weight P7 ever being produced, but I don't have a crystal ball either.

There have been several attempts to make a modern polymer gas piston pistol, (Vector, ADP for example), but they have not done well.

loose_holster_dan · August 26, 2013, 07:23 AM

i adore my psp. wish i had the budget to get one of each variant.

Sharpsdressed Man · August 26, 2013, 04:14 PM

A friend of mine carried one for many years on his police department. He and another officer has some issues with the striker retaining plates breaking after x-number of rounds now and then, but overall, a good gun. HK was not the easiest to get parts from during those "weapons down" times.

Fishbed77 · August 26, 2013, 04:49 PM

Whenever I see plouffedaddy's videos, one of the Joker's quotes from the 1989 movie Batman comes to mind:

"Where does he get those wonderful toys?"

IdahoG36 · August 26, 2013, 05:29 PM

Very nice! I had a Hk P7 PSP years ago, and I was very surprised at the accuracy I could get out of it.

CharlieDeltaJuliet · August 26, 2013, 05:44 PM

Thanks for the review. These are great pistols, but it is very seldom I have ever been let down by Hk. Gorgeous gun, can't wait for the next review...

jaughtman · August 26, 2013, 08:08 PM

Was I the only one that bought one of those West German police trade ins about 4 years ago that seemed to be in all the LGS'? You could get one for 500-600. Almost all had the dark plum-colored slide....

J

IdahoG36 · August 26, 2013, 09:11 PM

^^^

You weren't the only one

I got mine for $700 as well.

loose_holster_dan · August 27, 2013, 06:18 AM

my first one was a grade A and was $700. a year later i bought one that was a C at best (not officially rated), and i got it for $500. ended up selling the second to a friend.

August 24, 2013, 05:08 PM	#1
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	H&K P7M13 9mm Review (Oh yeah, it's tactical stapler time!) The H&K P7M13 (and all P7 variants) is a very interesting gun. I've had mine for a while and every time it makes an appearance at the range it always seems to draw a crowd. Here's a summary of my impressions of the gun: Pros: -Extremely reliable. This gun has never had a single malfunction in my hands -Excellent trigger -I'm a fan of the mag ambi mag release -Very sleek lines and it's pretty slim overall for a 13+1 gun -I have large hands and like how the gun feels in the hand but those with smaller hands may be better off going with the P7M8 -Very low bore axis combined with the piston system (more on this in the video below) make for a very, very light recoil impulse. -Easy and fast reloads can be accomplished with the use of the squeeze cocker -No magazine safety -Excellent accuracy from the fixed, cold hammer forged barrel -Fluted chamber for increased reliability under adverse conditions -Top of the slide is milled to reduce glare Cons: -Cost. They're expensive and no longer in production. Mags aren't cheap either. The prices on gunbroker seem to be all over the place but they pretty much start at $1300 and go up a good bit for a good condition or rare model -It gets hot after a few magazines of rapid shooting -Cleaning the gas system is somewhat annoying but it's not a deal breaker in my opinion All in all it's an excellent firearm as you'd expect from H&K. In the review below I do some shooting, explain/demonstrate the unique features of the gun, and go over the pros/cons of it overall: Heckler & Koch P7M13 HD Video Review Link __________________ Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel

August 24, 2013, 06:58 PM	#4
Herr Walther Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: A Place Worse than California Posts: 782	The request came from Bayern after the München killing of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics. __________________ "It was people who upheld their duties to their office, the constitution, and the public by opposing Hitler who were called traitors" ------------------------------------- "...a historian asked what had happened to the German people for them to accept a criminal government. Unfortunately, nothing needed to happen. In nations across the world people accept government crime." ------------------------------------- "In democracies as well as dictatorships, subordinates illegally obey their rulers. Subordinates who remain true to their oaths of office by opposing their rulers are rare."

August 25, 2013, 07:58 AM	#7
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	I have a P7M8, and a surplus BMI P7. Both, are very accurate, reliable, and concealable. The P7 is in my carry rotation. I find the pistol can be held with a relaxed grip, while still keeping the gun cocked, and ready to fire. The squeeze cocker is designed that once it is cocked, less pressure can be used to keep it cocked. In my experience, it does not require more pressure than other guns to hold, and fire. __________________ Pilot

August 25, 2013, 09:01 AM	#9
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	Most of the weight of a P7 is in its slide. I believe it needs the mass to function properly due to the blowback, gas retarded design. I don't see a lighter weight P7 ever being produced, but I don't have a crystal ball either. With a proper holster, and belt, I don't feel the weight of the P7, and nine rounds works for me. YMMV. __________________ Pilot

August 25, 2013, 03:03 PM	#12
FairWarning Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: GA Posts: 1,149	I love the P7 because the handling is without peer for me. It is also a very effective carry gun and has a true "anti-stress" safety via the grip, which I consider ideal and comforting to have working in my favor. __________________ Mauser Werke, Schmidt-Rubin, Colt, Walther, HK, Weatherby, Sig Sauer, Browning, Ruger, Beretta, etc, etc....a few friends of mine

August 24, 2013, 05:46 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	They are interesting guns but take some getting used to. My main complaint is that the gun must be gripped hard at all times. Normally, once the gun is cocked, it can be fired with a relatively light trigger pull, sort of like the change from DA to SA in a conventional DA/SA auto pistol. But if, partway through a magazine, the shooter relaxes his hand, the gun then reverts back to the squeeze cocker mode and has to be recocked. It is as if that DA/SA pistol suddenly went from SA firing to DA in the middle of a string. That, to me, is disconcerting and IMHO a major point against the gun. The fluted chamber, needed to keep the extractor from tearing the rim off the case; the hot piston area; and the need to clean the gas system are, again IMHO, not important problems. That pistol, IIRC, came out of a request for proposal from one of the German states for a 9mm pistol with a fixed barrel (i.e., not a locked breech). The Steyr GP was another gun from that competition. Jim

August 24, 2013, 05:59 PM	#3
Kevin_d77 Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: SW FL Posts: 953	And people complain about the XD grip safety.....

August 24, 2013, 08:06 PM	#6
CUBAN REDNECK Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: SW FLORIDA Posts: 318	Great shooter and extremely accurate. I had the pleasure of shooting one about two years ago, a friend loaned me his pistol. Truly designed ahead of its time and over engineered by the Germans.

August 25, 2013, 08:49 AM	#8
tulsamal Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Vinita, OK Posts: 2,552	I have two as well. P7M8 and PSP style. Big fan of the design. Since the vast majority of civilians are going to carry a gun for many years and never actually "have to use it...." a CCW gun needs to be as safe as possible. In the hand and in the holster. And during a re-holster. The P7 is that gun. BUT... I almost never carry mine. I have but they are mostly range guns now. And it's not because they get hot after 50 rounds. It's because they are all steel and just heavier than I'm willing to carry around every day. I've been carrying a gun with a CCW for something like 15 years now and I've found that size isn't as important as weight. I prefer a bare gun weight of 18-24 ounces. The P7 is more like 28 ounces. A quarter of a pound over the limit doesn't sound like much but it gets worse. I'm not a cop or even military any more. I'm not going to walk around with a full SWAT team load on my belt. Especially if I'm just going into Vinita for an hour or two during the day. Rural towns of 7000 are quiet places during the day. In those situations, I'm willing to drop down to just a gun and no spare mag IF I feel like the mag + chamber amount is sufficient. The P7 at 8+1 is right on the edge. When I have carried it, I usually ended up with a spare mag. But a lighter gun with higher capacity like a Glock 19 or HK P2000 (12+1 in .357 SIG) I feel good about carrying without the extra weight of another mag. Again, I do really like the design. And I agree that it was "ahead of its time." But that was the 80's. HK didn't continue to improve it. If they took the P7 design and made a modern version with lightweight materials.... I just might carry that. Gregg

August 25, 2013, 01:12 PM	#10
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	The weight difference is not in the slide, it is in the steel frame. Put my P7 next to my CZ P01, and the P7 slide is smaller than the P01 slide. The gas system does not add mass, that I can tell, and if it does that mass would be in the cylinder housing in the frame. Edit: For that matter, most of the weight is in the grip portion of the frame, which is why the P7 can challenge holster makers. Holsters have to be designed to resist the proportionally heavy grip's tendency to torque away from the body. This is true of my P7 PSP pistols, and I assume it would be more pronounced with M13 variants.

August 25, 2013, 01:26 PM	#11
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	I have had the P7M8 for about 10 years now. As previously stated, it is very accurate. I have a good holster and I carried it concealed for quite a while. It is heavy but a good holster and belt works wonders. It does heat up after a few magazines. I once tried it at a local IDPA competition. Although I had never noticed it when plinking, I did find that I was accidently releasing the grip on some courses of fire. I guess I tend to shoot with a loose grip and you can't do that with a P7. My wife likes it and can shoot it well. I'll keep this one but I prefer a 1911 for carry. Nice video and review, BTW.

August 25, 2013, 03:39 PM	#13
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	I've wanted one just about forever... __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

August 25, 2013, 08:17 PM	#16
jaughtman Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 868	P7 here..... Yes, it is a little heavy for CC....that is why it is my go-to bedside and main HD gun....pick it up in the middle of the night and with w slight squeeze it is ready to go. Pretty much fool-proof. J And scary accurate.....

August 26, 2013, 07:23 AM	#18
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	i adore my psp. wish i had the budget to get one of each variant. __________________ Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7 "A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."

August 26, 2013, 04:14 PM	#19
Sharpsdressed Man Junior member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,176	A friend of mine carried one for many years on his police department. He and another officer has some issues with the striker retaining plates breaking after x-number of rounds now and then, but overall, a good gun. HK was not the easiest to get parts from during those "weapons down" times.

August 26, 2013, 04:49 PM	#20
Fishbed77 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 4,862	Whenever I see plouffedaddy's videos, one of the Joker's quotes from the 1989 movie Batman comes to mind: "Where does he get those wonderful toys?"

August 26, 2013, 05:29 PM	#21
IdahoG36 Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 2,993	Very nice! I had a Hk P7 PSP years ago, and I was very surprised at the accuracy I could get out of it.

August 26, 2013, 05:44 PM	#22
CharlieDeltaJuliet Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2012 Posts: 755	Thanks for the review. These are great pistols, but it is very seldom I have ever been let down by Hk. Gorgeous gun, can't wait for the next review... __________________ " The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government...." - Thomas Jefferson

August 26, 2013, 08:08 PM	#23
jaughtman Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 868	Cost.... Was I the only one that bought one of those West German police trade ins about 4 years ago that seemed to be in all the LGS'? You could get one for 500-600. Almost all had the dark plum-colored slide.... J

August 26, 2013, 09:11 PM	#24
IdahoG36 Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 2,993	^^^ You weren't the only one I got mine for $700 as well.

August 27, 2013, 06:18 AM	#25
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	my first one was a grade A and was $700. a year later i bought one that was a C at best (not officially rated), and i got it for $500. ended up selling the second to a friend. __________________ Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7 "A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."

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