problem at range

[Ub3rn00ber]

I'm at the range shooting my 44 revolver, the cylinder spins fine before I shoot. Then after I shoot it binds and the spent primer hits the frame. The used primer also has scratches on it, and the new ones don't. So how are they backing out, to hot of a load?

Edit: I just bulled a bullet and powder and snapped a primer and the same thing...

[tmd11111]

Sounds like the primer pockets are a little too big. Is this reloads or factory fresh ammo?

[Russ5924]

Shooting a revolver with just primers they will back out every time it's normal. But I think need more information on the other problem. Reloads or factory if reloads what are you loading????????

[margiesex]

I've found over the years that as loads begin to approach "hot" and "OH MY GOD!" the primers have a tendency to back out and "flatten" against the rear of the frame - often taking the machine marks as a transfer pattern on the back of the primer.

Also, how often have they been reloaded (assuming they are reloads)? The more often they are loaded, the more loose the primer - usually - and also with heavy loads.

Hope you can work it out.

God bless.

Margiesex

And rememeber: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both - and soon!

[Doodlebugger45]

I'm guessing they are the 44 loads he was asking about on the other thread. He was wondering if .2 gr over the max was too much. Maybe they are. Or maybe it's some other problem. I think they might be his first loads he did for that caliber.

[Unclenick]

A primer backing out is normally a low pressure sign. That's why it occurs when you fire a primer by itself. For primer-powered rubber and plastic and wax bullets, you have to drill the flashholes out wider to prevent the back pressure from getting high enough to make that happen. In cases with normal flashholes, primers always back out as far as they can when fired and before enough powder has burned to raise the pressure in the case significantly. If the pressure subsequently gets high enough due to the burning powder, it pushes the casehead back against the breech (the recoil shield on a revolver frame) and re-seats the primer as it does so. Only when pressure is low is there not enough oomph to do that, leaving the primer sticking out.

Once the primers are sticking out, they scrape against the recoil shield as they rotate, which creates the drag you feel and the scuff marks on the primers. If the pressure was too high, the primers get blown out against the perimeter of the primer pocket (called mushrooming), and flattened. If pressure was really, really high, then the primer pockets might get expanded and loose, but that is more commonly a high power rifle case problem. In a revolver you will normally have sticky case extraction pretty badly before that happens. It is more common in revolvers to see no primer symptoms at all before sticky extraction starts, so sticky extraction is a primary high pressure sign in a revolver.

If you want more accurate help let me suggest you really need to supply complete information:

Caliber (e.g., .44 Magnum)
Case brand (Remington, Winchester, etc.)
Primer make and part number (e.g., CCI, 350)
Powder name and charge weight (e.g., Unique, 7.2 grains)
Bullet make and weight and type and length (e.g., Laser Cast, 240 grain, hardcast SWC, 0.810")
Finished Cartridge Overall Length (COL; e.g., 1.600")

All those factors affect pressure, and without them our advice is little more than guessing. On the other hand if you include it with each question on the subject, some pretty accurate estimates can result. For velocity questions, add barrel length to the list. If you don't have all the numbers, give the ones you can.

[Ub3rn00ber]

Winchester primers, 240 lead cast wc, 7 gr unique, mixed brass.

Well i'm done at the range, the first 10 or so stuck after that I fired about 300 rounds with no problem. I don't know what happened with the first ones I loaded.

[Unclenick]

How did you measure the Unique? It is famous for its large flakes interleaving to form a bridge over the entry to a powder measure's metering chamber, and thereby short-charging the case. This is especially problematic for the first few throws while the powder is still settling in the hopper.

If you are using wc's (full wadcutters; hard to find in .44, but not impossible) seated flush with the case mouth instead of more common swc's (semi-wadcutters), then your powder space under the bullet will be lot smaller and pressure higher than in the latter case. I still don't know if your ".44 revolver" is a .44 S&W Russian revolver, .44 S&W Special revolver, .44-40 revolver, .44 Colt revolver, or a .44 Magnum revolver? It will make quite a difference as to pressure because of the different case volumes involved.

If it is a .44 Magnum with a 240 grain cast swc, then your peak pressures are a little under half what a magnum load of H110 or 296 will give you. Right around 15-16,000 psi. Not warm, but not so small that you should be having primer setback. So I suspect an undercharge due to the powder measure problem.

[Ub3rn00ber]

it's a ragging bull 44mag

I used my 1200 dps lyman to weigh every charge before seating the bullet

[lockedcj7]

What Unclenick said. I tried downloading some .45 colt and ended up with the same problem. When I went back to a medium target load, the problem disappeared.

[Unclenick]

Since you weighed all the charges, I am going to guess that the problem will return when you clean the gun and go shooting again. I think what is happening is the soot and splattered bullet lube traces are making it easier for the cases to slide back under pressure. In other words, you have a marginal load for your particular gun's chamber finish. Try going to 8 grains of Unique. That should get you up closer to 20,000 psi which will burn that powder better anyway. That is assuming you are using an swc and not a wc?