The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 28, 2013, 01:24 PM   #26
Pathfinder45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Posts: 3,224
YES.

Brian, it sounds like you want to make bullets? I think there might be an opportunity...... There was a fairly popular bullet that had a good reputation but it's maker decided to discontinue it in favor of a cheaper but adequate product. If you could obtain a license to make and distribute the discontinued bullet you could be golden........or perhaps silver. Of course, I'm talking about the original Silvertip.
Pathfinder45 is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 01:26 PM   #27
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
Quote:
174~180 Gr Flat Base .312" either FMJ, or spitzer softpoint/hollowpoint.
What cartridges would use that and how popular would it be?
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 01:31 PM   #28
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 4,811
Quote:
What cartridges would use that and how popular would it be?
.303 British, 7.7 Arisaka & some of the bigger bored Moisin-Nagants in 7.62 Soviet.

Popular in quantiy? I'm not sure but I can tell you there are frequently several threads running in MilSurp rifle based forums on an ongoing basis, complaining that there is no such bullet available in the U.S.
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 01:51 PM   #29
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
Fascinating. Thanks for the tip.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 02:10 PM   #30
schmellba99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2008
Posts: 803
Something for a 9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm or .45 that has both the characteristics required for self defense, but also will no overpenetrate through either flesh or walls?

Right now you have a choice of either or with handgun projectiles. I think that both is probably against the laws of physics, but you did ask the question.

Or a rifle bullet material that can be cast, but loaded at jacketed velocities without detriment to your rifle.
schmellba99 is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 02:27 PM   #31
Machine
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2011
Posts: 12
Is There an Unmet Need in the World of Bullets?

I don't understand why there aren't many AP rifle rounds. Part of the reason I suppose is that more people keep screwing it up by making pistols that use these rifle rounds and then falls under prohibited items since a pistol is available.
Machine is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 02:52 PM   #32
Quadpod88
Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2013
Posts: 93
Quote:
I don't understand why there aren't many AP rifle rounds.
Believe me or not, most rifle calibers can be found with an AP variant.

Quote:
Of course, I'm talking about the original Silvertip.
That is fascinating. What would be the difference in the BC of a silvertip as opposed to a standard factory round of the same weight? Using any given example.
__________________
God made all men, but it was Sam Colt who made them equal.
Quadpod88 is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 03:26 PM   #33
mapsjanhere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,832
Frangible bullet with tungsten carbide balls inside. Instant damage for limb hits, deep penetration with body hits, no ricochets or over penetration. The Peeza safety slug.
__________________
I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.
mapsjanhere is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 04:10 PM   #34
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 9,333
BRIAN...

I know what you are after...

a buddy of mine has been swaging light weight 6mm soft points into shorter pointed bullets for a couple odd calibers 256 Winchester Magnum, & he has a wildcat that he almost perfectly duplicated a 25 Blackout, that he's using these shorter bullets for...

I'm sure mainstream would be tough, but I'll be looking for a bullet like my buddy makes for my new "257 Special" revolver... that bullet would also perhaps work well for varmints in 257 Roberts or 25-06 or ???

maybe finding prolific shooting wildcatters would be easier than finding something mainstream, that hasn't been covered yet ???
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...
Magnum Wheel Man is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 04:10 PM   #35
number 9
Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2013
Posts: 40
I'm not sure if I am following the topic correctly, but I would like to see 9 mm components that act as a varmint round. The velocity may not be high enough or some other issues but it would be handy around the homestead and may possibly address over penetration if that becomes an issue.

Just a thought
Leonard
number 9 is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 04:15 PM   #36
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 9,333
^^^ or low richochet possibilities for use around populated areas or farms

BTW... I could use a reasonably priced .416 bullet
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...
Magnum Wheel Man is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 04:46 PM   #37
5R milspec
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 360
Around here its hard to find 244 Rem,for a friend has one to why I know this.Thats why he reloads for his 244 Rem.If I am not wrong I think he could shoot 260 Rem in his rifle,so if I am right this might not fit the bill for ya.I'll have to look in the book to make sure if I am right.
__________________
life is great but its better when you can own as many guns you wish to own.for me I haven't bought enough yet.
5R milspec is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 05:03 PM   #38
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
Is There an Unmet Need in the World of Bullets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Wheel Man View Post
BRIAN...

I know what you are after...

a buddy of mine has been swaging light weight 6mm soft points into shorter pointed bullets for a couple odd calibers 256 Winchester Magnum, & he has a wildcat that he almost perfectly duplicated a 25 Blackout, that he's using these shorter bullets for...

I'm sure mainstream would be tough, but I'll be looking for a bullet like my buddy makes for my new "257 Special" revolver... that bullet would also perhaps work well for varmints in 257 Roberts or 25-06 or ???

maybe finding prolific shooting wildcatters would be easier than finding something mainstream, that hasn't been covered yet ???
I don't need mainstream, I need exactly what you're talking about.... all the demand I'd need is couple thousand bullets a week, provided guys don't think they're going to buy them for 20 cents.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 05:03 PM   #39
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11,755
This isn't precisely what you asked for but yet it's not specifically just a "supply" problem, but in my opinion (or should I say... for my needs ) where the biggest hole comes is in the availability of bulk handgun bullets.

Obviously, 9mm and .45 are amongst the leaders in handgunning popularity and there are multiple bulk sources for jacketed bullets for these guys. And plated works awfully well for those who need some of the jacketed qualities that you don't get from cast lead bullets, and you can buy plated bullets in bulk. But there's a place where plated bullets have their limit and only jacketed will do and yet there are either none or extremely limited venues for bulk bullets. I'm talking about making purchases no smaller than 1,000 pieces and more commonly at around 3,000 pieces & beyond.

--The most glaringly obvious one is a .357" true jacketed slug available in bulk. Zero and Montana Gold may be the only bulk suppliers. Hard to count Nosler's 250-pack as bulk given that it's only 250...and expensive.

--For a select few of us on Earth...a bulk jacketed .312" handgun bullet (85-115 gr w/cannelure) sure would be nice. Nobody in the world makes such a beast.

--Bulk jacketed in .41" and .429" would sure come in handy.

No doubt, Hornady makes some terrific bullets in -ANY- of the sizes I just pointed out. Extremely high quality and accurate. But if you simply want volume for the pure enjoyment of a lot of trigger time with all of your handguns, you'd go half broke buying these slugs at retail, 100 pieces at a time.

So while the "industry demand" isn't all too great for the things I pointed out... I believe that if someone offered them, someone would sell a holy hella lot of them.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 08:05 PM   #40
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,217
Depleted uranium 165gr BT for 30-06, deer in PA can be very tricky. Cant find them before or after the hype.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
"If you find yourself in a fair fight,,,
Your tactics suck"
- Unknown
BoogieMan is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 08:14 PM   #41
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 4,582
Build me accubond type of hollowpoint that penetrates like a partition but works with a bunch of different powders in .22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, .30 338 and 35, and 44 caliber, that is cheaper than blemms from Sierra or Speer.
__________________
Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.
hooligan1 is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 08:20 PM   #42
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,285
YES!

I would like a 200gr all copper .375 high bc bullet for my 375 JDJ.

A .224 ~60 gr FB VLD for ultra accurate 100-600yd varmints.

A reasonably priced $40 per 100 .277 140 gr or 150 gr 270 WSM bullet.
Nathan is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 08:21 PM   #43
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
Cheap, bulk are not words that go with custom bullets.

I'm not sure the terms VLD and FB can be in one bullet.

Quote:
BTW... I could use a reasonably priced .416 bullet
Define "reasonable".

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; February 28, 2013 at 08:58 PM.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 09:04 PM   #44
Pathfinder45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Posts: 3,224
B.C. of SilverTips

Quote:
That is fascinating. What would be the difference in the BC of a silvertip as opposed to a standard factory round of the same weight?
Comparable. 270 Winchester 130 grain SilverTips are fairly sharp pointed and they don't flatten their tips in the magazine during recoil. 30-30 SilverTips, on the other hand, have flat points. I think ballistic co-efficience is over emphasized these days. Out to 200 yards there is little difference in trajectory between, say, 180 grain round nose vs the same weight spitzer-boat-tail in the ubiquitous 30-'06 of whatever. The original purpose of spitzers bullets is to greatly extend the effective range of machine guns. For normal hunting distances within the range of what 95% of game is actually taken their is no need for super high B.C. bullets other than to maintain customer loyalty from those who believe it matters. Sales often have a lot more to do with perceived need than actual need. Silvertips may be discontinued because they may cost more to produce than the Power-Point and they do essentially the same job. But the belief that the SilverTip is better, especially for bears, moose, elk etc., induces sales of SilverTips. Everyone except for the ignorant knows that Pepsi tastes better than Coke; but when Coke changed their recipe it made a big uproar. What? No SilverTips? That ain't right! Gotta have SilverTips.
Pathfinder45 is offline  
Old March 1, 2013, 06:13 AM   #45
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 4,582
Quote: Cheap, bulk are not the words associated with custom bullets..
Who's going to spread the word and test these bullets Brian? You definetly need to gather a large market, simply by saying "I got custom bullets" ain't going to pack no freight trains, however if they are reasonably price everyone will at least try them, and if you send sample packs out and gain some feedback, it's cheaper for us to test than for you to test...... See where I'm going captain.....
__________________
Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.
hooligan1 is offline  
Old March 1, 2013, 08:39 AM   #46
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
Yeah man... Marketing.

But you've got to be able to sell them for a high enough profit to make it worth your while. It doesn't matter how many you can sell if you can't do it for a profit.

It's absolutely impossible for one man with a swage press to sell jacketed bullets at 20 cents and not worth his time at 40 cents.

These aren't plinking bullets. They have to fill a niche that people are willing to pay to have filled. Either in competition shooting or a small market with little/no bullet available.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; March 1, 2013 at 09:30 AM.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old March 1, 2013, 09:14 AM   #47
Machine
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2011
Posts: 12
Is There an Unmet Need in the World of Bullets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadpod88 View Post
Believe me or not, most rifle calibers can be found with an AP variant.


That is fascinating. What would be the difference in the BC of a silvertip as opposed to a standard factory round of the same weight? Using any given example.
Is there a commercially available one in 338 Lapua?
Machine is offline  
Old March 1, 2013, 10:04 AM   #48
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 4,811
Price is going to have an effect on sales volume, its just a fact of life. I had a company based on the premise that as people had told me this, they were "looking for a demonstrably higher-quality product than what was currently being offered". What they forgot to mention was they did, indeed want a higher-quality product, but weren't prepared to pay more for it than for the mediocre current offering!

How much are you thinking per box?
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old March 1, 2013, 10:13 AM   #49
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
I can't answer that until I have an idea of what I might make. Like I said though, at 40 cents a bullet it wouldn't be worth your time, virtually guaranteed. The market is not the guy who wants plinking bullets. These would be premium bullets to do a specific job.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old March 1, 2013, 10:33 AM   #50
snuffy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2001
Location: Oshkosh wi.
Posts: 3,055
Quote:
Build me accubond type of hollowpoint that penetrates like a partition but works with a bunch of different powders in .22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, .30 338 and 35, and 44 caliber, that is cheaper than blemms from Sierra or Speer.
Well, federal/speer brought out the "fusion" bullet in almost all of the above calibers, BUT they weren't available as components. Now, they have introduced the same concept called the deep curl bullet. Both are plated bullets, and ARE bonded!

The fusion, as factory loaded ammo, was overlooked because it didn't cost enough! How could it be a premium bullet at that price?

I got some of the deep curl in 30 cal, 165 grain, loaded them in 30-06, for my 03-A3 springfield. I then shot them into the test medium from the-bullet-test-tube. It performed just like an accu-bond, or Hornady interbond.

The reason more specialty bullets are NOT made is the cost of setting up and doing business. FFL type 06 is required, local and state regulations, tax collection, and the big one, insurance! Cost of core lead, and jackets, AND the expensive shipping is another hurdle.

It CAN be done, but you would be turning a hobby into WORK!. If I HAD to quit hammering keys on this puter, go back and make ammo or bullets to fill an order, I'd hate it real quick!

As far as the "silver tip", it never had any silver on/in it. The tip was aluminum. It being harder resisted deformation, and helped initiate expansion when it hit. A protected point bullet.
__________________
The more people I meet, the more I love my dog

They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?
snuffy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.12733 seconds with 10 queries