1911, are they the most accurate pistol? - Page 3

Old Grump · February 3, 2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Not enough info to tell.
Without the target's distance, that group means nothing, it could have been shot at 3 yards for all I know.

All of these targets were shot as part of a carry gun rapid fire 15 yard challenge match, draw and shoot 5 rounds, reload and draw and shoot again. The 45 did as well as any of them considering the last time I shot it was at 100 yards.

The 41 mag on top was pretty brutal to shoot double action. The .357 wasn't bad to shoot.

The 45 was a pleasure to shoot but I wasn't sighted in for 15 yards or it could have been a winner.

The 44 mag I had to shoot single action and barely made the time limit. It is my back up deer gun in the woods.

The target below was 5 rounds from my 45 at 100 yards shooting offhand

20 years ago it would have been better but I'm slipping as I age

BigD_in_FL · February 3, 2013, 04:37 PM

Sig 210, HK P7, any Olympic pistol in 32, S&W 52-2 in 38 WC, S&W 25-2 in 45 ACP

bac1023 · February 4, 2013, 04:22 PM

Here are some extremely accurate non-1911 autos from my personal collection.

Beretta Steel I, Benelli B76, Pardini GT9, Korth Autopistol, Sig P210, S&W 952, Steyr GB, Walther P88, Sig X-Five, Sphinx Competitor, CZ75 Champion, HK P9s Sport, Wolf Ultramatic, Delta Top Gun

Denezin · February 4, 2013, 05:05 PM

The most accurate pistol is the one you learn how to shoot groups with. Now is a 1911 a good platform for accuracy? Sure, And they are well known for it. Is a glock accurate? Sure they can be very accurate in the right hands. Even Jennings J-22's can be accurate to some people. Its all about practice.

bac1023 · February 4, 2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

The most accurate pistol is the one you learn how to shoot groups with. Now is a 1911 a good platform for accuracy? Sure, And they are well known for it. Is a glock accurate? Sure they can be very accurate in the right hands. Even Jennings J-22's can be accurate to some people. Its all about practice.

This is always the answer that comes up and I'll reply the same way I always do...

I think most people realize the shooter is much more important to accuracy than the gun. However, some pistols are much more accurate than others and the only way to measure that is to take the shooter out of the equation. When I speak of a gun's accuracy, I'm speaking from a a ransom rest or at least a bench rest. Again, I realize that isn't the real world. However, its the ONLY way to discuss a gun's accuracy. Otherwise there are too many variables.

You can talk about which gun has the better trigger or which can be easiest to shoot accurately, but that is a different conversation.

What's great about a high end 1911 is that it has great inherent accuracy AND a great trigger.

XtremeRevolution · February 4, 2013, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bac1023

This is always the answer that comes up and I'll reply the same way I always do...

I think most people realize the shooter is much more important to accuracy than the gun. However, some pistols are much more accurate than others and the only way to measure that is to take the shooter out of the equation. When I speak of a gun's accuracy, I'm speaking from a a ransom rest or at least a bench rest. Again, I realize that isn't the real world. However, its the ONLY way to discuss a gun's accuracy. Otherwise there are too many variables.

You can talk about which gun has the better trigger or which can be easiest to shoot accurately, but that is a different conversation.

What's great about a high end 1911 is that it has great inherent accuracy AND a great trigger.

Fortunately, "high end" can be interpreted differently.

My STI Spartan 9mm will shoot 2" or smaller groups at 50 yards from a ransom rest. Not bad for a $635 gun with an adjustable lpa sight and a great trigger out of the box.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

bac1023 · February 4, 2013, 06:55 PM

I have an STI Spartan as well and love it.

A 1911 doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to shoot well.

rodfac · February 5, 2013, 05:37 PM

I'll jump in here as one of the old fart 1911 lovers, depending on the gunsmith that worked on them, they can be made as accurate as any good/great revolver but...the most accurate guns I have ever shot were all Lugers....a half dozen 9 mm' in both 4" and 6" lengths and a 4" .30 that I still own.

Even with their inverted triangle (barley corn) front sight and V-notch rear, they'll amaze you. Triggers are complicated, but manageable two handed, but they really shine off a rest of some sort. If you ever get the chance, spend a full box of good ammo on one, you'll be amazed. Here' a pic of my 4" 1920 vintage commercial DWM. Off a rest its good all day long for 1" at 25 yds with properly blackened sights.

HTH's Rod

Jim Watson · February 6, 2013, 09:12 AM

Yup.
One of the requirements for the SP47-8, the first production of the gun we now idolize as the P210, was that it be as accurate as the old 1929 Swiss Lugers it was to replace. As accurate as, not necessarily better. And everybody knows the P210 is accurate.

Fleabag · February 6, 2013, 11:06 AM

I believe that accolade belongs to the S&W 52. No room for argument.

Slamfire · February 6, 2013, 11:08 AM

Don't ignore this Feinwerkbau. It is very accurate.

HKFan9 · February 6, 2013, 01:37 PM

What is more important is the users accuracy with a certain firearm. You can give a match grade 1911 to someone who does not shoot a 1911 well and they will be all over the place, where as if you gave them a Glock, theyd be spot on.

Certain people do not do well with certain guns. They are all accurate ENOUGH for real world work, which is what they are made and designed for primarily. I don't care which gun you prefer, but you should be able to make a combat effective hit with it at 100 yards.

If you are not interested in self defense.. than I have to beg the question why you would be even looking at Sigs, Glocks, ect... when there are guns much better suited for target shooting.

Fleabag · February 6, 2013, 02:56 PM

[QUOTE]you should be able to make a combat effective hit with it at 100 yards./QUOTE]

Damn. Maybe with flat shooting cartridges but with a .45? That would be like lobeing the rounds on target.

bac1023 · February 6, 2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Certain people do not do well with certain guns. They are all accurate ENOUGH for real world work, which is what they are made and designed for primarily. I don't care which gun you prefer, but you should be able to make a combat effective hit with it at 100 yards.

Huh?

You better have a good lawyer if you're going to take a shot at somebody 100 yards away.

HKFan9 · February 9, 2013, 02:22 PM

I am not suggesting we go out and shoot at bad guys at 100 yards... but you should be able to do it with your choice of a carry weapon. Yes a .45 lobs out there.. but it still gets out there if you do your part.

I know there is a video floating around of Jerry Mculek basically talking about this same thing, and popping balloons in the desert with a snub nose at something over 200 yards.

Also here is a video of Bob Munden at 200yards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk

My point was... it is more dependent on the shooter and his or her platform choice. Most handgun shooters stick to short distances, and never know what they are truly capable of.

Also not saying it is very practical for a self defense scenario.. but say your a law enforcement officer responding to one of these active shooter scenarios we are all sadly familiar with these days. If i picture the malls I frequent and the schools I grew up in / taught in... There are a lot of places where 100 yards is very common. If you are a police officer responding and are confronted with a lunatic at that distance... standing and practicing 100% of your time on the 7yard line isn't going to do you much good. This is the reason a lot of training courses are designed to get people out of that comfort zone.

Clearly the chances are small, but there are places where it helps to even practice a little bit.

I personally find long distance shooting with a sidearm fun for a lazy afternoon when I don't want to blow through ammo rapid fire.

Old Grump · February 10, 2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Huh?

You better have a good lawyer if you're going to take a shot at somebody 100 yards away.

Did you take your silly pill instead of your smart pill this morning. Not all self defense situations happen at 6 feet, there are morons out there called that will shoot at a fellow human being just because they have a screw loose and they can, Ie. Charles Whitman the Texas Tower Sniper, ie, Beltway sniper John Allen Mohammed, ie, Ohio sniper Charles A McCoy, ie, Clackamas shooter Jacob Tyler Roberts.

None were close up and personal and most of us don't walk around with rifles in case some nut case decides to take out a few dozen people to satisfy a sick need. One good long distance pistol shooter in the crowd and the results could have been different and ended the shooting quicker.

I suppose if anybody had shot one of these little darlings you would be first in line to file charges against the 100 yard shooter. After all nobody should shoot somebody from a distance, not even if he shoots at you first. I applaud your keen legal mind and your humanity. I am sure you are a man among men and would find some other way out of the sniper situations with a brilliant ploy that would save you and all the people targeted without resorting to armed violence.

February 4, 2013, 06:55 PM	#57
bac1023 Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 1,106	I have an STI Spartan as well and love it. A 1911 doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to shoot well. Last edited by bac1023; February 4, 2013 at 08:26 PM.

February 5, 2013, 05:37 PM	#58
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	I'll jump in here as one of the old fart 1911 lovers, depending on the gunsmith that worked on them, they can be made as accurate as any good/great revolver but...the most accurate guns I have ever shot were all Lugers....a half dozen 9 mm' in both 4" and 6" lengths and a 4" .30 that I still own. Even with their inverted triangle (barley corn) front sight and V-notch rear, they'll amaze you. Triggers are complicated, but manageable two handed, but they really shine off a rest of some sort. If you ever get the chance, spend a full box of good ammo on one, you'll be amazed. Here' a pic of my 4" 1920 vintage commercial DWM. Off a rest its good all day long for 1" at 25 yds with properly blackened sights. HTH's Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

February 6, 2013, 11:08 AM	#61
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Don't ignore this Feinwerkbau. It is very accurate. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

February 9, 2013, 02:22 PM	#65
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	I am not suggesting we go out and shoot at bad guys at 100 yards... but you should be able to do it with your choice of a carry weapon. Yes a .45 lobs out there.. but it still gets out there if you do your part. I know there is a video floating around of Jerry Mculek basically talking about this same thing, and popping balloons in the desert with a snub nose at something over 200 yards. Also here is a video of Bob Munden at 200yards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk My point was... it is more dependent on the shooter and his or her platform choice. Most handgun shooters stick to short distances, and never know what they are truly capable of. Also not saying it is very practical for a self defense scenario.. but say your a law enforcement officer responding to one of these active shooter scenarios we are all sadly familiar with these days. If i picture the malls I frequent and the schools I grew up in / taught in... There are a lot of places where 100 yards is very common. If you are a police officer responding and are confronted with a lunatic at that distance... standing and practicing 100% of your time on the 7yard line isn't going to do you much good. This is the reason a lot of training courses are designed to get people out of that comfort zone. Clearly the chances are small, but there are places where it helps to even practice a little bit. I personally find long distance shooting with a sidearm fun for a lazy afternoon when I don't want to blow through ammo rapid fire. Last edited by HKFan9; February 9, 2013 at 02:27 PM.

February 3, 2013, 04:37 PM	#52
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Sig 210, HK P7, any Olympic pistol in 32, S&W 52-2 in 38 WC, S&W 25-2 in 45 ACP

February 4, 2013, 04:22 PM	#53
bac1023 Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 1,106	Here are some extremely accurate non-1911 autos from my personal collection. Beretta Steel I, Benelli B76, Pardini GT9, Korth Autopistol, Sig P210, S&W 952, Steyr GB, Walther P88, Sig X-Five, Sphinx Competitor, CZ75 Champion, HK P9s Sport, Wolf Ultramatic, Delta Top Gun

February 4, 2013, 05:05 PM	#54
Denezin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 209	The most accurate pistol is the one you learn how to shoot groups with. Now is a 1911 a good platform for accuracy? Sure, And they are well known for it. Is a glock accurate? Sure they can be very accurate in the right hands. Even Jennings J-22's can be accurate to some people. Its all about practice.

February 6, 2013, 09:12 AM	#59
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Yup. One of the requirements for the SP47-8, the first production of the gun we now idolize as the P210, was that it be as accurate as the old 1929 Swiss Lugers it was to replace. As accurate as, not necessarily better. And everybody knows the P210 is accurate.

February 6, 2013, 11:06 AM	#60
Fleabag Member Join Date: November 1, 2011 Posts: 70	I believe that accolade belongs to the S&W 52. No room for argument.

February 6, 2013, 01:37 PM	#62
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	What is more important is the users accuracy with a certain firearm. You can give a match grade 1911 to someone who does not shoot a 1911 well and they will be all over the place, where as if you gave them a Glock, theyd be spot on. Certain people do not do well with certain guns. They are all accurate ENOUGH for real world work, which is what they are made and designed for primarily. I don't care which gun you prefer, but you should be able to make a combat effective hit with it at 100 yards. If you are not interested in self defense.. than I have to beg the question why you would be even looking at Sigs, Glocks, ect... when there are guns much better suited for target shooting.

February 6, 2013, 02:56 PM	#63
Fleabag Member Join Date: November 1, 2011 Posts: 70	[QUOTE]you should be able to make a combat effective hit with it at 100 yards./QUOTE] Damn. Maybe with flat shooting cartridges but with a .45? That would be like lobeing the rounds on target.